**Queries on ECU Remap**

[timur_the_lame]

Hi Guys,

I've the following questions regarding ECU remap :

1. What is ECU remap/chipping?
2. How is it done?
3. What are the kind of cars for which it can be done(I know carb models don't have ECU) ?
4. Who is authorized to do it?
5. Does chipping make the warranty void?
6. Any constraints or limits for doing this?
7. What is the cost of getting it done?

Thanks,
timur_the_lame

 

[350Z]

Thread Moved.

Drive Safe,
350Z

 

[mastersquall]

I don't have much knowledge in this area but i will tell you what i know

1. its basically custom code for ECU to get better performance from engine like increase in BHP or more like tuning
2. no idea much but i think they special computer system to do this but its just a guess
3. i have only seen german cars getting ECU remap more . Still no idea
4. well those company who really know what they are doing
5. yes if there is any warranty left
6. well limit is your engine .
7. well i was asked 35k for my safari which i didn't went for seeing cost .


still wait for ilango to arrive he is really expert here

 

[ilango[speed thirst]]

I dont agree i am a expert Master! , every one learns day by day and previous day's mistake!



My views in bold


1. What is ECU remap/chipping?
In ecu there are lot of codes for the function , eg firing timing in petrol , injector open timing in diesel , checking of sensors and work accordingly.

EG: for milage ,tamper the oxygen sensor data , make it read rich everytime and you get low fuel mix and hence FE , but power decrease and vice versa

2. How is it done?
Can be done DIY if you are sure enough , lot of readymade tuning box are present in marker , just plug and play type . To be more clear any video hosting site have lot of tuning videos


3. What are the kind of cars for which it can be done(I know carb models don't have ECU) ?
Exactly , ecu tunning can be done to car only with ecu. CRDI/dicor type diesel and MPFI in petrol have ecm

4. Who is authorized to do it?
No one is given authorised , a good knowledgeable electrician is need though
5. Does chipping make the warranty void?
Absolutely even fixing a head unit is pointed for the cause of blown fuse of a starter motor


6. Any constraints or limits for doing this?
Sky is the limit , play safe . More increase in power - more carefully the car should be modified , read brakes part!


7. What is the cost of getting it done?
Depends upon the brand and tunning box you select

A pete box for innova diesel roughly cost between 33 to 36K and takes 25 min or less to install.

 

[jayadev]

ilango, did it again . crystal clear answers.

thanking you ilango.

ilango can you elaborate if i am right ecu remapping and petes box are different things?

and what exactly petes box contain?

 

[ilango[speed thirst]]

Welcome jayadev .

Any modification of ecu codes and soft ware is called ecu remapping.

Pete is a tunning box , other wise can be known as remapping box too.
Its a tried and tested codes available seperately for a price , that you can plug in a car , and remove them if not needed and causes no harm to engine. I remember it is being manufactured in belgium.

similarly i remember a box named race dynamic for remapping too.

Apart from these there are custom code , owned by some car electronic freaks , who does the job at somewhat lesser price. This term we name as ecu remapping. where the original codes of the ecu itself is changed - no regrets it can be bough back to original one at a click of the mouse.

If we are well experience with microprocessor codes we can remap ourself

Both are same , but adding a pete is termed as pete tune car! Just for brand sake.

In pete box , the bhp increase and power increase are true as they are tried and tested on several car
but in custom code , one need to do the dyno test to get original figures !! hmm as long as you dont care for the original figure , enjoy the revving part!

In normal petrol , according to dyno test report that i heard and read

there is 10 to 15 increase in power and 15% increase in torque.
same was in diesel turbo there is 10 to 20% increse in power ,and some 50 % increse in torque. yeah you read them right there are some 150bhp skoda octy.

I have seen a innova with pete in coimbatore.
Owner is a car freak aged about 55 , owns several car and he cruise his innova at near 200 easily.

 

[timur_the_lame]

Hi mastersquall and jayadev,

Thanks for your inputs.

timur_the_lame

 

[timur_the_lame]

I dont agree i am a expert Master! , every one learns day by day and previous day's mistake!

Hi ilango[speed_thirst],

In fact your replies say you're an expert!
It was very informative, clear and direct.

I remember somebody telling me these petes' and race dynamics boxes are called piggy-back ecu's which confuse the actual ecu to either run the engine rich or lean depending on tuning. Is this true? Basically the stock ecu is not touched, but the piggy-back is used to alter the working.

Thanks a lot,
timur_the_lame

 

[racerdabba]

Hi ilango[speed_thirst],

In fact your replies say you're an expert!
It was very informative, clear and direct.

I remember somebody telling me these petes' and race dynamics boxes are called piggy-back ecu's which confuse the actual ecu to either run the engine rich or lean depending on tuning. Is this true? Basically the stock ecu is not touched, but the piggy-back is used to alter the working.

Thanks a lot,
timur_the_lame

Pete's Tuning box is a Piggy back. And as you already know, It does nothing more than fool the Ecu to get a richer mixture and advanced timing. You can still change the parameters of the Fooling though.
Race Dynamics, on the other hand is a Standalone unit which completely replaces the Stock ECu and is custom coded for the car. It also has extra features compared to the Stock ecu and is easier to tune. Addition things like a turbo Boost controller and options to change fueling and ignition on the fly are other added benefits.

A remap, on the other hand isnt as easy to tune, and remaps are relatively more expensive, and Stock ECu remaps have their limitations too. That is the reason most heavily modded cars in India Run an Standalone Such as RD or Hondata.

 

[Torque7]

About re-mapping

What do we talk about when we use the term re-mapping?

We refer to the re-organising of the so called mapping tables, which as a matter of fact are only a small part of the ECU's program.

Of course, it can extend to further parts of the ECU, but at that point it might be much better to go for a stand alone ECU.

Whether using a piggy back/tuning box, generic re-map, custom re-map, live re-map or stand alone ECU, they all share the same idea: Altering the fueling and timings as well as boost in force induced systems.

But the end result might be very different using each of the ideas/systems.

Piggy back:

Some people try to sell resistors as a piggy back. They usually are to be brought in line with the ambient air temperature sensor. The theory behind this is that the ECU is made believe that the air is cooler than it actually is. This would inject x amount more fuel and the result is that the richer mixture will give more power.

So far the theory. But the practical side looks different. The ECU has got more sensors and the one picking up on it is the lambda sensor, which will correct the fueling to a certain extent. The resistor will have no effect on performance in a positive way. It will rather loose performance and/or will increase fuel consumption.

To rate this idea anyone being generous would give 0/10. Not so generous people would give it less.

The real piggy back ECU's or tuning boxes should be quite a bit more advanced.

On normally aspirated engines they are of very limited use. In Europe they are only used if other than going stand alone no other alternative is available. The gains usually do no warrant the expenditure.

Problem is the they are not capable to adjust the ignition timing. This might not affect the engine to a significant degree, but does not aid performance gains to the degree a proper re-map does.

Where it weighs in heavier is when it comes to further modifications where ignition timing is very important to change.

My rating on the normally aspirated applications is at best 2/10.

In force induced petrol engines I personally would not consider any piggy back (including Pete's). If further modifications made to the engine I would strongly advise not to use it at all.

My rating on the force induced petrol engines is 0/10

On the turbo Diesel applications the tuning box is more acceptable because the crucial ignition timing is not existent. However the tuning box can not replace a proper re-map. Unfortunately not all ECU's can be re-mapped. This is where the piggy back is a winner.

The only real other advantage is the convenience factor. It can be easily installed and removed.

But it isn't working on all ECUs, because some late ECUs are so smart that they effectively will override the tuning box. Also quite a few ECUs now can 'see' an alteration and log on a fault code.

My rating on the Turbo Diesels where it is the only alternative solution is 4/10. For all other applications it is much less!

Stand alone ECUs:

Stand alone ECUs are the most flexible solution in performance tuning. But this comes at a price. Additionally there are 2 problems to it. One of them affects the daily user the other effects the daily user as much as the professional racer.

The first problem mentioned is due to the fact that a lot of driving is done with an engine warming up. Warming up is for the software designers a real head ache. A cold engine needs over fueling (which is why carburettor engines have a choke).

But the dosage is rather tricky. To get the balance right it takes a lot of testing (costing manufacturers at present over 10 million USD per ECU in man hours alone). This we can't get right with reasonable cost.

The other problem that the user of a standalone is being confronted is the map in general. Every parameter needs setting, which sounds much more complicated than it is. It is easy to decide the different inputs (sensors) to be used and the same goes for the outputs.

Where it gets involved is the actual mapping. None of the ignition advance tables are set. And none of the fuel tables either. And if it is turbo applications it will get even worse.

To get thing to work properly a rolling road with an Eddie current unit needs being used assisted by a lot of road testing, where you need a second person on the lap top. And this gets expensive. But the results are rewarding.

My rating for road use is 9/10 because of the warm running issue. For all other applications it has to be 10/10.

Generic re-maps:

A generic map is usually coming from a test car that the supplier of the software has developed. This is fine for the car that it was done at, but doesn't mean it is all that good. First of all these maps are done on new cars that aren't even run in properly.

Then a couple of things are underestimated.

Every engine is slightly different. When we had on some rolling road days a number of cars of the same model with the same engine. We had AFR graphs differing as much as torque outputs. This was not only because of tolerance issues on the engine but also because of the fuel used and some other reasons.

A generic re-map will be useless when it comes to modifications. When a proper induction kit is installed it can combined with a generic actually lose performance against stock.

My rating for the generic re-map is 4/10.

Custom re-map:

The custom re-map is a heavily misused term. Strictly speaking any modification of a re-map could be called a custom re-map.

To do it properly a rolling road is needed. Before any re-mapping is being done a couple of runs on the rr are done with an AFR graph (unless it is Diesel) and the torque curve and boost in force induced engines.

From there the mapping tables are looked at. If it can be live mapped then it will be done constantly on the rollers while running the car, but this is not possible with most of the modern ECUs (more in live mapping about that).

A professional mapper is more than an old school mechanic and therefore is able to read out of the graphs what the map has got to be to make the best gains. But the improvements done will not be the optimal results. This can only be done by quite a number of runs and map alterations.

However a good mapper gets very good results that are very close to the optimal results within an acceptable financial and time frame.

My rating on a custom re-map when done by a professional is 8/10

Live re-map:

We are talking a bout a live map, when the ECU can be accesses with an emulator that makes the ECU believe that the lap top attached to the emulator is the actual memory.

This way the mapper can alter the values in real time on the rolling road. By using the Eddie current unit rpm and load can be held at any point wanted. This way every mapping point can be addressed and optimised.

This is as much a custom re-map as what is classified in general a custom re-map, but has got the advantage that the live re-map can be done much faster in real time than any other map. Any custom map can be made as good as a live map when enough time and money is at hand.

The live mapping is not possible with all ECUs. It is only possible when the ECU can be 'extended' to a memory that is outside the ECU and be live programmed. It can not be done through the OBD socket.

Difference between chipping and re-mapping:

The difference between chipping and re-mapping is the physical action.

Chipping is referred to as removing the chip (memory) of the ECU by ar e-mapped chip. Technically it is the same programming job.

Re-mapping is usually referred to as up loading the program through the OBD socket, pinning the ECU or using a BDM adaptor.

Some ECUs can be programmed/re-mapped by using either method, most of the old ECUs can only be chipped and many of the modern ECUs can only be re-mapped.

But whatever needs to be applied it all is re-mapping.


Regards,
Torque7

 

[anurag]

@torque7: what explanation..dont think i need to research on this any more

 

[NishantSood]

What about Bike ECU remapping?

 

[drifter]

What about Bike ECU remapping?

Can be done in the same manner as casr or truck ECUs

 

[NishantSood]

Do you remember any specific ECU eeprom emulators that gives us the ability to live remap the ECU and Do you about what EEPROM's they are using in Bajaj Pulsar's

 

[drifter]

Do you remember any specific ECU eeprom emulators that gives us the ability to live remap the ECU and Do you about what EEPROM's they are using in Bajaj Pulsar's

I wouldn't know which eeprom they are using. However if it is a current freeely available eeprom they are using then the emulator is available.

The emulator is the least problem to solve. What is needed is the files to communicate with the ECU as well as extracting the tables in order to alter them. Every ECU generation is coded differently and therefore someone has to crack the coding first.

Just one word of caution. Please remember that re-mapping must not be a gamble especially when it comes to bikes. If the map is wrong and the engine seizes even if it takes time then this means almost certainly death.