High End Air Filters - Are They Really Worth It?

[Kichu]

Re: HELP! New Maruti Wagon-R Idle Issues

YA i agree, paper filter filters well, but Even the paper filter let the particle inside.
A properly well maintained K&N filter wont cause you any problem because of the dust particles entering through it, since those particles are not big enough to damage the engine and wont need any "daily engine rebuild".

I think you never had a K&N filter in your car. If you dont, get to some of your friends who uses K&N in their vehicle
1) Check the condition of the airbox after the filter.
2) Check the inside and outside of the K&N filter. Outside surface of the filter will be dark in color due to the collection of dust particles, where as the opposite side of filter surface will be superclean and the color will be almost the same as newly oiled filter. It means the dust particle dont even reach to the opposite side.

A cone filter can performance better than a stock replacement filter.
But my question is whats the difficulty for you to accept the performance difference between the stock vs stock replacement K&N filters that I have stated from my EXPERIENCE??? It is not just from the information that i have collected from internet or from my friends. Its really bad when you blindly discourage it.


My friends dont face any kind of issues, one of my friend's swift(similar to a-stars airbox) is running close to 1lac kms in his K&N. All of them dont have any issues like mileage short or any kind of low performance.

"You are wrong, I am not blaming K&N.They do make a good product is it really good for everyday use is my question."
No man, you are really blaming the filter K&N. Or else what you mean by this question?
Is it that "yes they make good products, but they are only good for weekends driving" ?
By comparing to the race engines, You are talking in such a way that a daily driven K&N engine must need more frequent engine rebuilds for maintaining the engine in its better shape.
By comparing to the cotton cloths you have said it looses its property after its first wash. I didn't ever hear this in my real life or in my experience. Even in the internet its really hard to find a damaged K&N filter reported by any customer. If you found any please be sure to find the reason for them for not asking for a replacement.

Please Answer to these questions
1)According to you, approximately after how many kms these engines starts showing the lack of performances ?
2)After How many kms these engines requires a rebuild?


"I do not know how they handle engine failures in the US .But I am sure a lot of passing the blame happens there as well."
That is the Mystery behind the blaming people. they just need to blame.
I have searched a lot, What all i can see is people blaming about K&N for ruing their engines. But I didn't find a customer reporting it to the K&N and rectifying the engine failure. Or about experiencing the poor customer service when asking for a warranty claim. So for these reasons we can say a minimum of 80% of blames we see over internet are fake.


Again you are speaking too much about 0W-40. Tell me in what language should I say Mobil1 do only have 0w-40 as fully synthetic engine which is suitable for the KB10 engine for reducing the IDLE vibrations.

"So according to you only 0w40 provide good cold starts?Why are the other grade of oils even made?All multigrade oils have good cold start protection.If you idle your car for a few minutes after you start it, there will be less damage with 5w30,10w 40 and 15w40 and 20w40.The cold start temperature condition depends on the environment temperature.Do you understand this, even if it goes to -40°C then with 0w40 you start and can drive your car without the engine ceasing due to the oil freezing.
Down south does the temperature go below -40°C outside?No.
Based on the temperature outside and using the viscosity range provided by Maruti any oil that suits the temperature range in your area of choice will provide protection from the time you turn on the key.
For example, if it is 30°C outside do you think the engine is going to be frozen that a normal 15W40 oil will do damage at cold start?No"
Does Any of your statement proves that 0W-40 is a bad choice for the KB10 engine so as to damage it?
->No, You are misspelling. I didn't say 0w is the ONLY engine oil which helps in cold start protection, Instead i said "Lower the cold viscosity higher the cold start protection" So 0W oil not going to hurt this KB10 engine in anyways.

I'm not an expert in fluid mechanics, then also i'm trying to answer to your above questions with my limited knowledge.

->After Idling the car for sometime even the 40grade oil is far enough to protect the engine from wear and tear. If you only consider the engine wear few minutes after starting then why you are putting multigrade oil?
->Lower cold viscous oils are costly. so If the car manufacturer dont insist to use a 0W-XX grade oil, then the customer can go for more affordable oil.
->You are wrong, all multigrade oils wont give you better cold start. There are 30w-40 multigrade engine oil. here the grade 40 lies in the preferred hot viscous range for KB10 engine. where as the 30w is not.
->Everybody know that a lower viscous oil makes the engine strain. But I cant understand how a 0w-40 gets more strained comparing to 15w-40 or 20w-40. then whats the logic behind the MULTIGRADE OIL,? I don't think cold viscous has any role in the case of "engine operating temperature".
In my experiences with the 0w-40 and 5w-30, if feel the engine is more smoother and silent with 0w-40. So seriously i don't think cold viscous has any role in the engine operating temperature, but only the hot viscous grade defines.

"If you look closely at your service book's service limit page, you will see the spark plugs need to be inspected and cleaned at regular intervals and the gap needs to be checked as well.Ignore this at your own peril."
Yes I admit it. Just like the normal customers I too dont have tools for removing and checking the spark plugs , instead just like most of the normal customers i too give my car to MASS for the regular services.(With the hope of getting better services)

"As for the mileage.I was getting 20 with copper plugs, 24 with platinum plugs and 24 with Iridium plugs.No difference there.The high jump you see from copper to platinum is due to the addition of extra ignition coils.Rs200 plugs and Rs650 plugs are giving me the same output.Now what?"
I have already told you that I dont know much about the platinum plugs and in any of the posts I did't even mention iridium is much better than platinum. then why are you keep on questioning me about the platinum
The comparison i made with the stock vs iridium plugs.
Its good to know platinum also performs well just like the iridium. but what about the expected life of platinum and iridium?

If platinum can perform well like the iridium and with a half life of iridium, then its better to go for platinum itself.

You have missed some Questions.
"Whats the recommended grade of engine oil for Ertiga? Isn't it the same 5w-30?
I still cant understand why you are more conscious to get higher cold viscous oil even which is out of the range recommended by the manufacture. What benefits you get from it, can you please explain your view?"

"PS:On a side note, we have gone way off topic here.I guess we can continue this discussion else where."
Extremely sorry to all those members who are visiting this thread.

Jarpickle, If you still can't digest my answers then let me know the thread where we can continue, i will be there.
I also request you to tell me the answer for the above few questions in it.

Regards.

 

[jarpickle]

Re: HELP! New Maruti Wagon-R Idle Issues

Have you seen a stock paper filter?

The outside gets dirty because it traps all the dirt and the inside will remain clean.As per your theory, paper has to be as good as K&N then.Why buy K&N at the premium cost?

What I have said about race engine is that they can afford to use a free flowing filter, any damage associated with that can be repaired after each race.In daily drives if anything does happen, how will you know.Do we have mechanics who has give us the exact cause?

If 2x volume of air can pass through a filter then doesn't that mean there can be that amount of particles passing along as well.The air is not that clean and pure else we would not need filters

In case of paper the amount of particles passing was found to lesser than K&N.This has been proved in the test.I am not making this up.

You spoke about throttle response, but you failed to mention it was achieved on a conical and not a stock replacement.Do not just cut and use facts as they please you.

When you wash something it does not remain the same because water is a universal solvent.Basic science.

Yes, I have used a K&N stock replacement filter.My friend drag races, he had an extra one that he wanted to sell.With air flow increase and a good tuned carb I had fun.Left a few Honda's to eat my dust.But I knew with increased air flow there was other stuff flowing in too.

An excerpt from the test results:

The "high performance" cotton gauze and foam filters do not filter as well as some have claimed. I actually received an e-mail from K&N stating their filters filter within 99% of the OEM filters. This may be true, and 1% may not sound like much. I contend that 1% over many miles, may be important. Really, it is up to each individual to decide. The poorer flowing filters, remove more particles, and the better flowing filters remove less particles. If you think about it, that conclusion passes any and all common sense tests, so it is not surprising. There are many that will be shocked by the results, that should not be though. I've used high performance filters in the past, and I might again in the future. At the same time, I know that the stock OEM type filters perform very well in filtration and don't inhibit flow nearly as much as some think.

There are other grade of synthetics available too.Just because 0w-40 is available at the dealer and is on the MASS chart doesn't mean all K10B's or other K series should use this.

Mobil 1 does have other fully synthetic oils.It even has a 10w30.Sadly enough there are no 40 grade oils.

0w is not a bad choice, it is the wrong choice.Engine oils should be selected based on the ambient temperature.All the multigrade oils read, selected based on the ambient temperature to viscosity index will provide cold start protection.Maybe there are cars who are recommended 30w40 oil.I have not mentioned it in our discussion.I have always said, look at the oil chart in your owners manual.See the temperature to viscosity range and select accordingly.Just because I said multigrade doesn't mean you list any oil out of context to prove a point.I have used 20w40 and it works really well on the 800.The original unrebuilt engine is still running after 15 years.

For the lower viscosity oil 5w30 was compared with 15w-40.The latter was smoother in all driving conditions.

0w40 is going to protect you in -46°C.5w in -40°C.So in essence a 5w40 is also an overkill in areas where it isn't freezing over.When you see temps like that you will have a lot to worry about than engine protection.

There are companies that make 15w40 full synthetics, they are like K&N based in the US.I have used them and I liked them.Now just have to wait till the warranty expires and will shift to them.The higher cold viscous oil is as per the ambient temperature of my city.If I plan to take my car to the north like Leh Ladakh Shimla etc I too will change to lower cold viscosity oil.

The manufacturer(Maruti)has recommended oil based on the tight clearances and based on what they have tested and what is available.Not to mention politics and bribery.Oil companies pay for the association.But they still have gone on to mention that you can select any oil with certain API classifications depending on the car(newer cars use newer API classification) and the viscosity chart and ambient temperature.With newer cars, 40grade high temp viscosity would be sufficient in our country.Do you know places where the summers can go beyond 50°C 15w-50 is recommended.The hot viscosity is important as the car spends more time in the hot than in the cold.Thinner oils tend to shear at higher temperatures.15w50 will protect in -10°C all the way to 50°C ambient temperature.

If the ambient temperature is 50°C think what the internal engine temp would be,at such high temps the thinner oil tend to shear, even if the high temp viscosity is 30, here I agree with you that 40 grade high temp viscosity is best suited.But to make an oil that won't freeze and will provide protection till 40 grade polymers and additives are used and these do tend to tear down and shear.That is why if you have noticed, lower W oil will perform better when its cold in the morning as the mercury rises, they engine will sound strained and rough.

People who aren't afraid and who understand what is written in their owners manual can test this, for the rest please stick with what is recommended.

There are a few folk on our forum who are using mineral oil in their Ertiga and are shocked to see their engine has gotten smoother and returning better fuel average.

About engine rebuilds, I do not know the exact time.I have changed my oil after 5000kms/1 year for 15 years.The engine is still in good shape and a lot of engine rebuilders have commended me on its upkeep.I even change the synthetic on the Ertiga every 5000-7000kms/1 year.

I do not sit and remove the spark plugs myself.I hardly find any time because there is not enough time when it comes to my car I will sit and take apart things and clean them myself,so I do check the plugs every 15000kms to see whats going on in the engine.It a window into the engine. It can tell you a lot of what is going on in there.

Platinum plugs last for 80% of the life of Iridium plugs.

See, when you jumped from stock to Iridium, you thought Iridium was the absolute best and you bought it and are recommending it to others.Not knowing for a fact that there is something just as good for a fraction of the price.

I am using Iridium right now and even with coil packs I find it over rated.Kiran, I have not come to these conclusions over night.I have tested these things on my car.Any enthusiast worth his salt will agree with me.Unless you are running NOS,blaster coils or a turbo or other engine mods Iridium is an overkill.Save money, buy platinum enjoy the same benefits.Check it after every 15000kms change when you find it worn.At the end of the day you are saving more since Iridium will last longer but as it gets older the benefits will get thinner.Not to forget 3 platinum plugs for the price of 1 Iridium plug is not bad at all.

Let me tell you, new is always new.Performance that is received from 50000km run spark plug and a new one will immensely vary.

That is why any performance part maker has different stages of mods.Each stage gives you more.That doesn't mean you jump to the highest stage.In a lot of cases same performance can be had with lower stage parts if used correctly based on your needs.

Kiran, I hope I have answered all your questions.

 

[Kichu]

Re: HELP! New Maruti Wagon-R Idle Issues

Reminding you and all other members over here

"I have used Mobil1 0w-40, 5w-30(fully synthetic) and 5w-30semi-synthetic engine oils.
I feel the best in 0w-40 grade oil. It gives the best engine smoothness in all range of rpms.
5w-30(fully synth) This is what presently I'm using in my car, Its not smooth as 0w-40, but its far better than the same grade of semi-synthetic oil.
If you have already got the performance filter and iridium plugs then consider switching to 5w-30 or 0w-40 ( Mobil1 fully synthetic engine oils).
PS: Experiences that I have shared is with the car A-star."

This is what i shared to Mr.Nikhil for reducing the idle Vibration.

" Have you seen a stock paper filter?
The outside gets dirty because it traps all the dirt and the inside will remain clean.As per your theory, paper has to be as good as K&N then.Why buy K&N at the premium cost?"

Tell me where did i say K&N filter filters more dust particle than Stock paper filter or atleast where did I say K&N filter filters the same amount for dust particles that the stock filter do. You are well at scripting the things that i have not said or meant.

"What I have said about race engine is that they can afford to use a free flowing filter, any damage associated with that can be repaired after each race."

Please get some common sense, you are simply talking too much about the racing engines.
You have said you have a "dragracer" as friend.
Ask him, is it just because of these Airfilters they doing their rebuilds?
Ask him, what FUEL and at what COMPRESSION RATE and at what RPM they are running their engines.
Most of these racers even change their pistons during each of the rebuild or during a couple of rebuild.
They are doing such kind of effort since in these races, even the deciseconds are important to them. They just want to extract every possible juice out of their vehicle.
Also ask him upto how many races they uses the same tires for their race vehicles and compare it to the KMS we ride with our tires on our indian roads.
In short, I mean Its really nonsense to compare our vehicles to the high performing race vehicles.

" You spoke about throttle response, but you failed to mention it was achieved on a conical and not a stock replacement.Do not just cut and use facts as they please you."

In the previous post itself I have agreed that a cone filter have better airflow than a stock replacement filter. (If you still don't beleive then go back to the post #59 and see)
But how can you blindly discourage the improvement i felt with my stock replacement K&N is not genuine? .

"When you wash something it does not remain the same because water is a universal solvent.Basic science."

"A solvent is a substance that dissolves a solute, resulting in a solution."
Every school going children may know " Water is a universal solvent".
But who taught you cotton will get dissolved in water?
In my knowledge Cotton can be dissolved only with concentrated ACID. Even the weak acid cant react and dissolve a cotton in it.(I haven't expirimented)
We all know water is a neutral solution, and we all must have experimentally proved that WATER can't be a solvent the for the solute COTTON
You may know the basics of science, but seriously you dont know where to apply these basics.

"There are other grade of synthetics available too.Just because 0w-40 is available at the dealer and is on the MASS chart doesn't mean all K10B's or other K series should use this."

When and Where did I say KB10 SHOULD ONLY USE 0W-40??? Please stop lying.

"Mobil 1 does have other fully synthetic oils.It even has a 10w30.Sadly enough there are no 40 grade oils."
Funny again., Still you are talking in such a way that you feel difficultly to accept what i said is right. Or if the reason is you missed in the above post then I request you to read it here again."Tell me in what language should I say Mobil1 do only have 0w-40 as fully synthetic engine which is suitable for the KB10 engine for reducing the IDLE vibrations."

"0w is not a bad choice, it is the wrong choice"

Wrong.Since the values are in the manufacturer recommended range and since this grade can meet all the climatic conditions, YOU CANT EVER SAY ITS A WRONG CHOICE in the case of protection or in the case of smoothness of the KB10 engine.
Instead you can say its not a perfect/right choice in the case of economy, because you have to pay more for 0w-40mobil1 fully synthetic engine oil.

"Maybe there are cars who are recommended 30w40 oil.I have not mentioned it in our discussion
I have used 20w40 and it works really well on the 800.The original unrebuilt engine is still running after 15 years."

I did't say you have mentioned 30W-40 oil. But you have said "ALL MUTIGRADE" oil have a good cold start protection. Thats made me to give an example of Multigrade 30W-40 engine oil.
I believe the recommended oil for M800 is 20W-40 itself(Thats what I know from my family member who has used m800).
I'm really happy to know your car is in a good shape even after such a long period of time. How many distance you covered with this vehicle?

"People who aren't afraid and who understand what is written in their owners manual can test this, for the rest please stick with what is recommended."

I'm saying once again 0W-40 is a recommended range of grade for KB10 engine by the manufacturer. There is no risk or to afraid.

"There are a few folk on our forum who are using mineral oil in their Ertiga and are shocked to see their engine has gotten smoother and returning better fuel average."

I didn't say anything about mineral oil. Since i do only have the experience of reducing the KB10 idle vibration with MOBIL1 0W-40, i shared my experience to the member NIKHIL.

"About engine rebuilds, I do not know the exact time.I have changed my oil after 5000kms/1 year for 15 years.The engine is still in good shape and a lot of engine rebuilders have commended me on its upkeep.I even change the synthetic on the Ertiga every 5000-7000kms/1 year."

You have very much deviated from the questions I have asked and I dont need to know the exact time.
Since you are speaking too much about engine rebuilds, you must have an idea. So Tell me about the approximate KMS(not the years) required the rebuild for the engine with the stock filter and a stock replacement K&N filter.

"It a window into the engine. It can tell you a lot of what is going on in there."

Yes, I agree with you.

"Platinum plugs last for 80% of the life of Iridium plugs."

Can you please tell me ACCORDING TO YOU whats the approximate kKMS you get from platinum and iridium.

"See, when you jumped from stock to Iridium, you thought Iridium was the absolute best and you bought it and are recommending it to others.Not knowing for a fact that there is something just as good for a fraction of the price."

I agree, I have said only about the comparison between the stock and iridium plug, because thats the only experiences I had in my life about the plugs. I'm not a MASTER in Automobiles, so there is nothing wrong if i missed platinum for sharing my experiences.
Here I'm happy to get the information about the platinum. Please note the point IN ANY OF THE POST I DID'T EVER SAY ANYTHING BAD ABOUT THE PLATINUM So you don't have the right to accuse me for just not including platinum for the comparison, instead praise me for not saying anything about the thing I dont have experience.

"Kiran, I hope I have answered all your questions."

No you don't, I have requested you to say an approximate kms for the rebuild of an engine

From your replies what I have understood is, You just want to refuse what ever i say. Just for defeating my words, you are even saying the things I haven't said or meant. You are even stating unwanted Nonsense things(I wont ever forget your point "WATER IS A UNIVERSAL SOLVENT " that you have used against K&N)

I never expected this from one of the senior most TAI member.

PS: Please do question me only about what I have ever I said. If you can prove it wrong(with the right points), then I'm ready to accept it without any SHAME. because, I consider understanding and accepting the mistakes are the real INTELLIGENCE of Human. You can use whatever examples for proving your statements, but it should it realistic and sense full.

Regards.

 

[jarpickle]

Re: HELP! New Maruti Wagon-R Idle Issues

Your own words

I think you never had a K&N filter in your car. If you dont, get to some of your friends who uses K&N in their vehicle
1) Check the condition of the airbox after the filter.
2) Check the inside and outside of the K&N filter. Outside surface of the filter will be dark in color due to the collection of dust particles, where as the opposite side of filter surface will be superclean and the color will be almost the same as newly oiled filter. It means the dust particle dont even reach to the opposite side.

This is what is happening with even a normal filter.What's the benefit of K&N, where does it filter more?The normal filter is restricting the volume of air and the particulates as well.

Why do you think K&N uses oil to coat the filter.This is because the filter pores itself are too huge to trap particulates and the oil is used to do the rest.Get your facts correct.

The "high performance" cotton gauze and foam filters do not filter as well as some have claimed. I actually received an e-mail from K&N stating their filters filter within 99% of the OEM filters. This may be true, and 1% may not sound like much. I contend that 1% over many miles, may be important. Really, it is up to each individual to decide. The poorer flowing filters, remove more particles, and the better flowing filters remove less particles. If you think about it, that conclusion passes any and all common sense tests, so it is not surprising. There are many that will be shocked by the results, that should not be though. I've used high performance filters in the past, and I might again in the future. At the same time, I know that the stock OEM type filters perform very well in filtration and don't inhibit flow nearly as much as some think.

Read the facts.

You are going on about race engines, try and understand the logic behind the race engine example, it was not a direct comparison. Everyone knows a race engine has a lot of engine mods, in such an engine using a free flowing filter will help.In such an engine, if there is any damage resulting from increase particulates entering the engine then it will not matter since after the race the engine is going to get rebuilt and any damage that has happened will be repaired.This is what my drag racer friend agrees with.He is using a normal paper filter when he uses the car on a daily basis.Like I said before, no mechanic can tell you what caused the engine wear.But if a filter is allowing more particulates it means it will cause engine damage.When, depends on a lot of factors.If K&N provides funding for a test we can get two cars and run them with stock paper and K&N replacement filters and check the results.A real world test will help answer all the questions.

I am not saying that the filter will dissolve right away.I said it will not remain the same.I know its water and not an acid.The filter will lose its initial quality with subsequent washes.I am pretty sure there are a limited number of times that you can wash the filter.

Since when is tap water 100% neutral?Water is always either acidic or alkaline.Using this to wash anything will cause it to degrade over time.

Nothing happens overnight.Every part has certain tolerances.They will work till those tolerances and then break down.But there is no forensic mechanic who can tell us what caused the breakdown.If there is one, maybe he can provide some insights.I am all ears.

"There are other grade of synthetics available too.Just because 0w-40 is available at the dealer and is on the MASS chart doesn't mean all K10B's or other K series should use this."
When and Where did I say KB10 SHOULD ONLY USE 0W-40??? Please stop lying.

"Mobil 1 does have other fully synthetic oils.It even has a 10w30.Sadly enough there are no 40 grade oils."
Funny again., Still you are talking in such a way that u feel difficultly to accept what i said is right. Or if the reason is you missed in the above post then I request you to read it here again."Tell me in what language should I say Mobil1 do only have 0w-40 as fully synthetic engine which is suitable for the KB10 engine for reducing the IDLE vibrations."

Just because the main page on Mobil 1™ Products shows 0w-40 and 5w50 are you assuming that the other oils made by Mobil 1 are not fully synthetic?

As per the Astar,Wagon-R(Kseries)and Alto K10 manual, Maruti recommends 5w-30,10w30 and 10w40, with the K10 having 0w-20 for use in subzero temps.Why not go with 10w40?It is recommended by the manufacturer and within recommended range of ambient temperature and viscosity as well.Have you even tried it out?Mobil 1 does make fully synthetic 10w40 as well.Why just Mobil 1 there are others who make fully synthetic 10w40 oil as well.

With that said, 0w40 is the wrong choice from the list of available options atleast in areas where there isn't -46°C temps.

People are using 15w40 with the K14B and have said it has gotten smoother and the FE has increased.This is a fact, search the forum and look for them.

I get that you have tried 0w40 but saying its the only oil that meets requirements and removes vibrations is wrong.It is not even mentioned in the user manuals.

You have just mentioned that 0w40 is the only one that is fully synthetic and reduces vibrations.What about the other fully synthetic options.You can find 10w40 fully synthetic ones as well.

Anyways,Maruti has nowhere mentioned that you need to use only synthetic oils.They have API classifications listed.There are mineral oils meeting these classifications as well.This is the fact.You can pick an oil based on this classification and based on the ambient temperature of your area if you are not sure, stick with grades mentioned in the owners manual.

When you said 40 grade oil is good based on our climate I agreed with you and I have mentioned that.As it gets hotter the Xw40 will make sure the engine remains smooth.It is not difficult for me to agree with you.But what I do not agree on I have mentioned.

30w40 is a multigrade oil and if used in the ambient temperature it was intended for this oil will also provide protection.Why will it not, can you show me some facts.I have an open mind, I'd like to learn new things.

When it comes to spark plugs, both Platinum and Iridium use the Nickle ground electrode.These wear out before the tips(center electrode) which are made of platinum or iridium respectively.I would think the platinum one will last to around 40000kms and the iridium one to around 50000kms if they are never cleaned or checked periodically.The manufacturer will claim a lot of things, but in the real world it is not possible.If that was the case why aren't we all getting high FE as claimed by the manufacturer.They test the stock cars with stock engine, oil and plugs.Why do we need to spend thousands to achieve that.Please explain.Why have you not written to Maruti and fought for receiving lower FE?Why not send your car back?

Kiran, you made the jump from stock to iridium and you are asking people to go for iridium directly.You should consider some facts and also mention prices and also mention if its absolutely essential.If you are suggesting something, try and list the options that are available and recommended and make sure you mention that out of these you have used so and so and I do not know about the others options.You should mention all the options and list what you have used and how it was beneficial.You have done that to a certain extent no doubt.

Coming to the engine rebuild Kms I cannot predict this.There are too many variables.Not even manufacturers can predict this.Why do you think there is a service limit and inspections needed when a car serviced.Why do you think there are recalls?I have not deviated from this question.I simply cannot predict this.I do not have a crystal ball.

I am just trying to give you perspective.I have provided facts showing that K&N was not the best in filtering, you have completely disregarded that. You are going by feeling?You say cotton filter will never breakdown after washing.That is just wrong, they only claim it will last for a million miles.Have they claimed anywhere the filter will remain just as brand new after washing?You claimed tap water to be neutral.

As for the warranty I had to point out that incase of engine failure you need to send the engine there for analysis.If you get a positive reply well and good.If not you will be spending the amount needed for a rebuild just on shipping charges to and fro.Explain to me how does this reassure a user in this part of the world.

It is not my intention to prove you wrong.I am not on this forum for that.Please do not think so, I apologize if you feel I am trying to prove you wrong.You have been very insulting with your replies.

To correct you I am not the senior most TAI'ian here.There are many members who are more senior and way more knowledgeable than me.

PS:I have attached a Temperature to Viscosity Chart.This should help anyone understand what oil is needed when.I still recommend using the viscosity chart in your respective owners manual

 

[Kichu]

My car is Maruti Suzuki A-star Mfg:2009 March.

Positives I found in my experience.
1) Improvement is Very much noticeable with the A/C switched ON.
When I was running with the Stock paper filter, I use my A/C button as the BOOST button for overtaking the vehicles.

2) Slight improvement in Fuel Consumption.
Here I'm not claiming that I get 2 or 3 extra kms from a liter of petrol, or not even an extra of 1km.
but a slight improvement about 300 to 500 meters per liter.

3)It sounds a bit more louder than the stock paper filter. But not much louder to inform the near by people that a K&N is inside.


Here I'm attaching few pics to show the condition of my airbox.

 

[Kichu]

I'm not a K&N dealer and I'm not going to get any kind of advantage for sharing its positive feedback in the above post.

I will continue using K&N filter, since I don't I find any sign of negatives right now.
Anytime if I encounter any problem because of K&N then I will definitely inform you people over here.

There is a common MISCONCEPTION that K&N makes the engine to run LEAN. may be its true for a carburetor.
But for the modern engines with ECU, the AFR wont go LEAN under normal conditions. (Correct me if anybody have other side of experience.)

K&N is not an ESSENTIAL thing for a car. But for me, I'm really happy with the overall performance I get from K&N.

Regards.,
Kiran.

 

[AR Ram]

I'm not a K&N dealer and I'm not going to get any kind of advantage for sharing its positive feedback in the above post.

I will continue using K&N filter, since I don't I find any sign of negatives right now.
Anytime if I encounter any problem because of K&N then I will definitely inform you people over here.

There is a common MISCONCEPTION that K&N makes the engine to run LEAN. may be its true for a carburetor.
But for the modern engines with ECU, the AFR wont go LEAN under normal conditions. (Correct me if anybody have other side of experience.)

K&N is not an ESSENTIAL thing for a car. But for me, I'm really happy with the overall performance I get from K&N.

Regards.,
Kiran.

I just want to share my experience with the K&N filters.

When I had the lancer Glxd I replaced the air filter with K&N and I found a considerable difference in pick up and a small improvement in FE, and never had any problem.

Later when I bought my Octy I adopted the same procedure, and definitely there is a difference in terms of performance with K&N filter. Every 15000 kms I clean it using the cleaning kit.

And out of my experience I truly recommended this to few of my friends also and all of them are happy with it.

Here, I am not promoting the product, but I am sharing my own experience.

In future too when I go for another car I would like K&N filter in it.

 

[navnit013]

Guyz, I just bought a Cosworth intake system (like the K&N Apollos). Was wondering though, is it necessary to re-map the the ECU?

The box only contains the hardware, no software (CD), no manual nothing.

 

[ram123]

Came across this article

K&N vs OEM

It says OEM is better, dont know what to believe ?

 

[Kichu]

Guyz, I just bought a Cosworth intake system (like the K&N Apollos). Was wondering though, is it necessary to re-map the the ECU?

The box only contains the hardware, no software (CD), no manual nothing.

I believe Cosworth is oil-free type, isn't it? Where as K&N is oil based.

No need of any remapping, it will work smoothly.

Came across this article

K&N vs OEM

It says OEM is better, dont know what to believe ?

Nothing to doubt about it, OEM gives you better filtering than K&N filter. But in my experience K&N filter is not bad in filtering. Its doing a good job.

 

[patkar_a]

Kichu nice explaination buddy.
Thinking of this,but what can be noticeable performance improvement to car.Which one is better Stock replacement or Cone.
What can be the approximate budget otherwise,for both.

 

[Kichu]

Kichu nice explaination buddy.
Thinking of this,but what can be noticeable performance improvement to car.Which one is better Stock replacement or Cone.
What can be the approximate budget otherwise,for both.

Thankyou patkar :)

More noticeable things are
Better revving without any hesitation. Overtaking is a breeze.
Lesser drag when taking off foot from the gas pedal and when switching on AC.

Stock Replacement vs Cone
In general, Cone filters have more surface area and there by it offers less restrictive airflow. But remember one thing, when going for Cone filter be sure to get the piping works perfectly so as to get perfect airflow.
By changing the diameter of the intake pipe you can also customize your ride either for low-mid range or for high end performances. This is the another advantage of cone filter setup.

Go for Stock Replacement K&N filter for any of the following reasons
If you want to retain your car's warranty.
If you don't ride your car at very high rpms.
You can easilyy swap OEM with K&N when you want to clean and recondition K&N filter. So you can use your car when K&N is taken for cleaning.

If you are ready to pay more then you can go for cone, be use to find a good knowledgeable person to max out the performances from it. A bad setup can deliver worse performances than the stock intake setup.

Stock replacement K&N can cost somewhere around 3-5k which varies with the size of airbox.

For me it costs about Rs.3500/-approx
My rev range is about 2-3k rpm and rarely revs upto/beyond 4k. So in these rev ranges I feel K&N stock replacement filter is much much better than the OEM filter.

Regards.,

 

[patkar_a]

Thankyou patkar :)

More noticeable things are
Better revving without any hesitation. Overtaking is a breeze.
Lesser drag when taking off foot from the gas pedal and when switching on AC.

....... setup can deliver worse performances than the stock intake setup.

Stock replacement K&N can cost somewhere around 3-5k which varies with the size of airbox.

For me it costs about Rs.3500/-approx
My rev range is about 2-3k rpm and rarely revs upto/beyond 4k. So in these rev ranges I feel K&N stock replacement filter is much much better than the OEM filter.

Regards.,

Buddy thanks for the info.
Buddy i am thinking of getting it installed after my 3rd service in Ertiga which is due after 5 months,was thinking of cone,if it would have been better,but another thing is that after that i don't have sure about me,since moving out for education.So it would be solely driven by dad and sister.

I drive in the range of 2/3k rpm max,than thinking of installing stock replacement.

 

[Kichu]

Ya, then its better to go for stock replacement filter itself.

 

[navnit013]

I have installed Cosworth cold air intake system. I didnt notice any difference. Yes there was a slight increase in mid range. BUT then I found out that my fuel filter was chocked. Cleaned the filter and there is a noticeable difference throughout the range.

NOTE: My car is a diesel car.