Water as fuel for automobiles!

[ragha2010]

I know it may sound weird with the title! Earlier today I was reading about increasing car mileage by installing a water powered generator. It says its possible to increase mileage of the car from 20 - 100%.

The logic is that water when electrolyzed gives out HHO gas which can be piped into air inlet chamber of the engine. With the mixture of HHO gas into the air inlet, fuel burns more efficiently which in turn increases mileage.

As anyone else come across such thing? If yes, any one tried it? Or is the whole thing not worth it? Hoax / Scam ??

Thanks for your inputs!!

 

[Akash]

I assume the fe theoretically may increase due to more O2 entering the chamber, which inturn leads to better combustion. But i dont get this HHO gas thing. H20 electrolysis produces ions then what is this HHO? I was not really strong in chemistry so i would be grateful if someone can throw some light on this.
@Arkin- i think you will be able to elaborate it well.

 

[*Arkin_Young*]

Well, I've heard about water powered automobiles in trivia sections of magazines, and I believe it is true that some vehicles do exist, but there is no production model as such.
I shall do my research and get back to you tomorrow (I am leaving on an outstation trip in another 5-10 minutes)

Anyway, here is an excerpt from Wikipedia that may solve this dilemna.

Many alleged water-fuelled cars obtain hydrogen or a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen (sometimes called "oxyhydrogen", "HHO", or "Brown's Gas") by the electrolysis of water, a process that must be powered with electricity. The hydrogen or oxyhydrogen is then burned, supposedly powering the car and also providing the energy to electrolyse more water. The overall process can be represented by the following chemical equations:
2H2O → 2H2 + O2 [Electrolysis step]
2H2 + O2 → 2H2O [Combustion step]

Since the combustion step is the exact reverse of the electrolysis step, the energy released in combustion exactly equals the energy consumed in the electrolysis step, and—even assuming 100% efficiency—there would be no energy left over to power the car. In other words, such systems start and end in the same thermodynamic state, and are therefore perpetual motion machines, violating the first law of thermodynamics. Furthermore, under actual conditions in which hydrogen is burned, efficiency is limited by the second law of thermodynamics and is likely to be around 20%.[10][11] More energy is therefore required to drive the electrolysis cell than can be extracted from burning the resulting hydrogen-oxygen mixture.

*EDIT* - More info here.

 

[ilango[speed thirst]]

I think tata is working on a water based fuel car. the research is going on in france.

I do not remember the news exactly though. have to dig up , or use google!!

 

[Arun]

Ahem..
When water is electrolyzed, 2H+ and O- Ions are generated according to basic science. But, the reality is, oxygen can never be liberated in the free state. To make things simpler, an oxygen ion doesn't exist. Oxygen is always liberated as OH-.

The basic mechanism is to provide more oxygen for combustion externally so that the hydrocarbons from petrols don't have to get destroyed. Thereby saving fuel and indirectly increasing mileage.

 

[AMG]

By the time this technology gets used in cars, Water will be as costly as Petrol

 

[Neil.Bhujbal]

Hydrogen Engine or Hydogen Fuel Cell

Hydrogen cannot be used along with petrol or diesel to give more fuel efficiency.
Reason - Hydrogen,diesel,petrol all fuels have different igniting temperatures.
Even if it is used you will have the exhaust gases polluting the environment & its all too complicated.

That's why you cant run a car on LPG & Petrol/Diesel at the same time.It has to be one of them which you choose with a switch.

As of today - "How can a hydrogen be used to power cars"

1) Hydrogen Engine - It burns Hydrogen instead of Petrol/diesel. Though its cheaper,less polluting there is no infrastructure support for such cars.There have to be filling stations,etc to get the liquefied hydrogen filled in your car

2) Hydrogen cell - The car has a electric motor instead of an engine.Hydrogen cell is used instead of electric batteries.In a hydrogen cell hydrogen reacts with oxygen to produce electric current which is used to run the electric motor.

Now how to have a constant flow of hydrogen ? - Either get hydrogen filled in at some station or electrolysis. When water is electrolyzed you get hydrogen & oxygen which is used in hydrogen cell to produce electric current & then run the electric motor.So here's how you get a car running on water.

I think tata is working on a water based fuel car. the research is going on in france.

I do not remember the news exactly though. have to dig up , or use google!!

Its not a water car its a Compressed Air Car.The car might be launched next or next to next year.

 

[*Arkin_Young*]

Talking about hydrogen fuel cells, Maini too developed a Hydrogen Fuel cell Reva. They have 2, one in Bangy and one in some European place.

 

[ragha2010]

Thanks a lot for all the inputs. My question was to use water as supporting fuel for existing petrol / diesel engines. I guess as it appears none have tried it on there cars. I came across a person name Anjeel who as converted his car to use water as supporting fuel (30% hydrogen & 70% petrol). His website can be accessed here. I am trying to contact him for further info. I will keep you guys posted.

 

[Neil.Bhujbal]

Thanks a lot for all the inputs. My question was to use water as supporting fuel for existing petrol / diesel engines. I guess as it appears none have tried it on there cars. I came across a person name Anjeel who as converted his car to use water as supporting fuel (30% hydrogen & 70% petrol). His website can be accessed here. I am trying to contact him for further info. I will keep you guys posted.

You cant say he's using water as supportive fuel. Its hydrogen that's actually going into the engine.

Remember even for the electrolysis of water you need electricity.So that adds a little more load on the cars engine (bigger alternator) which leads to a slight drop in economy,etc as i said its all complicated and finally results in a very less profit.

Advantages - Less pollution & a little more efficiency over the regular fuel.

Disadvantages - Bye Bye to reliability,water cost,servicing cost increases,performance decreases,etc.

What you save using 30 % hydrogen gets spent in getting clean water every time.Servicing the mechanism which will electrolyze water,etc

You would be better of buying a small cc engined car or converting the current ones to cng/lpg.

They would be more cheaper.

If able to contact him ask him how cheaper such cars fall when compared to regular ones in long term.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like i have always said Electric Cars are the Future.
Its just the source of electricity that will be anything ranging form electric batteries to hydrogen cells to small nuclear reactors fitted inside cars.

 

[AMG]

What the guy is basically doing is he is diluting the fuel.

 

[mukeshus]

Hydrogen must be stored as fuel cell.
And its production cost will be more .
As enormous energy is required to seperate Hydrogen from water though it's abundantly found in water.
The main reason for not using Hydrogen is it's highly inflammable & must be used immediately after production.
It cannot be stored.

 

[Italian Raider]

Hydrogen must be stored as fuel cell.
And its production cost will be more .
As enormous energy is required to seperate Hydrogen from water though it's abundantly found in water.
The main reason for not using Hydrogen is it's highly inflammable & must be used immediately after production.
It cannot be stored.

Mukesh,
I think a simple 12 volt battery is enough to separate the Hydrogen & oxygen molecules from the water with a little catalyst's Presence. You can see the process in you tube videos. HHO fuel cell can be used as an additive to the Air-fuel mixture. Due to Hydrogen's explosive nature It ads more fire to the fuel air mixture & makes it a complete combustion. Hence the FE will increase considerably & since the combustion is complete the polluting gases are eliminated .

 

[*Arkin_Young*]

Separating H2 and 02 from H20 is damn easy. Electrolysis of water can be done at home itself.

 

[Neil.Bhujbal]

Mukesh,
I think a simple 12 volt battery is enough to separate the Hydrogen & oxygen molecules from the water with a little catalyst's Presence. You can see the process in you tube videos. HHO fuel cell can be used as an additive to the Air-fuel mixture. Due to Hydrogen's explosive nature It ads more fire to the fuel air mixture & makes it a complete combustion. Hence the FE will increase considerably & since the combustion is complete the polluting gases are eliminated .

Even this simple 12 v battery will needs recharging. That needs a bigger alternator & that means more load on the engine which results in reduced economy.

Mixing hydrogen with air-fuel mixture doesn't lead to complete burning of fuel.
In normal car/bikes (petrol) the ration is 1 part of fuel to 14 parts of air.Stil some part of the fuel remains unburnt & that's done to keep the engine cool.
If the companies tune the engine to burn every part of fuel completely the engine wont last long nor would it be smooth.