This is freaking amazing ! Even my running will be less than 20KM on normal days but may stretch upto 60KMs on December times ![[:)]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Smile.gif "Smile [:)]")
What's the cost of ONE Full Charge from 0-100% ?
What's the cost of ONE Full Charge from 0-100% ?
Tork Kratos e-Bike Launched
- Thread Starter Prabhagar
- Start date
Riding any electric vehicle (car/bike/scooter) is the most environment friendly but it isn't much efficient on our pocket.
There are no maintanence cost, but when we are about to change the stock battery to the original battery unlike china made batteries then the battery itself costs a bomb and when the stock battery shows its life then we will be like the character pushparajan and for replacing the battery we would atleast maintain a bullet at the cost for its
replacing.
And when we order two or three batteries alone to be replaced as only they needs to be replaced then the dealer/changing person would replace 2 batteries with new ones in the whole battery set and the other one would be the removed one's from the other bike ( happened to me when i had my Ultra Marathon electric scooter/ my first bike to learn driving) And still i had pushed it many times after replacing the battery afterwards when they have done this fraud i just shouted at them in front of new customers in the dealer/showroom and they atlast replaced it with original battery at their own cost without even spending my money.
replacing.
And when we order two or three batteries alone to be replaced as only they needs to be replaced then the dealer/changing person would replace 2 batteries with new ones in the whole battery set and the other one would be the removed one's from the other bike ( happened to me when i had my Ultra Marathon electric scooter/ my first bike to learn driving) And still i had pushed it many times after replacing the battery afterwards when they have done this fraud i just shouted at them in front of new customers in the dealer/showroom and they atlast replaced it with original battery at their own cost without even spending my money.
I am yet to understand why manufacturers don't standardize the batteries of electric vehicles so that the economy of scale is quickly attained in producing batteries, this can help bring down the battery cost significantly.
They arent willing to standardize batteries in Phones, laptops, Cameras. Will they standardise this?
They can but they dont want to. They'll actually make batteries coded & locked so they can never be used with 3rd party chargers etc (Hp, Dell)
They can but they dont want to. They'll actually make batteries coded & locked so they can never be used with 3rd party chargers etc (Hp, Dell)
But these batteries,I think they will last for a long time.Atleast for 50,000 Kms they won't degrade in performance.Which is plenty IMHO.And technology has and is improving drastically,So I believe that this bike will be great and reliable for a long time to come
Tork Motorcycles Gets Over 1,000 Pre-Bookings For T6X In 24 Hours - NDTV CarAndBike
This is great as well as disappointing.The Bike arrives only next year![[surprise]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Surprise.gif "Surprise [surprise]")
and will have only Pune Banglore and Delhi at first....Why not Chennai ? Because we need it more than Pune ! ![[cry]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Cry.gif "Cry [cry]")
Tork Motorcycles Gets Over 1,000 Pre-Bookings For T6X In 24 Hours - NDTV CarAndBike
This is great as well as disappointing.The Bike arrives only next year
and will have only Pune Banglore and Delhi at first....Why not Chennai ? Because we need it more than Pune !
Thread Starter
#21
But these batteries,I think they will last for a long time.Atleast for 50,000 Kms they won't degrade in performance.Which is plenty IMHO.And technology has and is improving drastically,So I believe that this bike will be great and reliable for a long time to come
Source: India Today
I am all for new technology but the convenience of a petrol bike can't be underestimated. We all know the electricity situation even in cities - low voltage, blackouts, sudden spikes will all take a toll on battery. If I have to go out suddenly, I can't wait for bike to charge up. The resale value of electric vehicles are dismal. At best the electric bike can serve as a secondary commute vehicle. The situation can change if we have free supercharger infrastructure at least along the major roads. IMO, a hybrid engine (if it can be made economically) is the best bet for India
Well,If these tech needs to mature and improve,There needs to be adaptation.And I want to support the dudes who did hard work on R&D for this bike,I cannot see it go down to drain.Sudden spikes shouldn't affect the bike's battery because there is a power adapter which acts like a stabilizer in between the Power source and the bike's charging socket.And also the bike will be ridden on Cities,Our houses will be nearby and we have Voltage stabilizers and boosters in our house so that's not an issue.I can plug it in at my house for charging.And Power cuts have reduced hugely in Chennai and we also have an Invertor backup incase power isn't available (But Charging the bike on inverter is stupid :P ) So yeah,Tork should provide us with the charger of the Bike so we can charge it at our homes.That's a much better way instead of building power stations.And they can actually invest on Power Stations on Highways every 80KM radius
But yes,Resale value will be very poor.I will be keeping this for a minimum of 10 Years if I get it,So that isn't an issue really.
Or actually Tork can have an inbuilt Power Adapter and then with a normal Power Cable that comes out.All you need is wall socket with Power at Petrol Pumps.That will cost peanuts compared to setting up superchargers in every petrol pump.
In that way,You can just pull out the charger,Plonk it in your bike,Plonk it at the wall socket and let it charge.You can also have this on Parking areas of Restaurants and Dhabas so you can put your bike in charge while you go eat and come :)
But yes,Resale value will be very poor.I will be keeping this for a minimum of 10 Years if I get it,So that isn't an issue really.
Or actually Tork can have an inbuilt Power Adapter and then with a normal Power Cable that comes out.All you need is wall socket with Power at Petrol Pumps.That will cost peanuts compared to setting up superchargers in every petrol pump.
In that way,You can just pull out the charger,Plonk it in your bike,Plonk it at the wall socket and let it charge.You can also have this on Parking areas of Restaurants and Dhabas so you can put your bike in charge while you go eat and come :)
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I am sure Tork will provide charger for Bike. While there are ways to mitigate the erratic supply, those are not widely available. Inverters as means of Charging a 3 AC equivalent Bike is out of question, so is use of stabilizers to stabilize current flow equivalent to 3 ACs charging - all these measures decrease charging efficiency and affects long term battery life. Even in a good power grid, at just 400 cycles, Li Ion batteries start losing 30% charging power, so imagine the effect in our scenario.
Super Chargers are not power stations, they are charging points which charges vehicles in minutes instead of hours. In case of Tesla, the charging bay setup takes a 12 kV, 750 kVA feed from the Utility, steps it down to 480V three phase on site, pushes that into 2000A switchgear which feeds four banks of Supercharger units at 480V/200A. Each unit contains twelve 10 kW rectifiers giving a total of 120kW DC per pair of pods. Tork has ruled out super chargers as they are expensive. They are going to set up community chargers (Pune already has few such chargers). While it is good enough, we can't take a long break everytime to charge bikes, which is why I advocate them as secondary transport.
Super Chargers are not power stations, they are charging points which charges vehicles in minutes instead of hours. In case of Tesla, the charging bay setup takes a 12 kV, 750 kVA feed from the Utility, steps it down to 480V three phase on site, pushes that into 2000A switchgear which feeds four banks of Supercharger units at 480V/200A. Each unit contains twelve 10 kW rectifiers giving a total of 120kW DC per pair of pods. Tork has ruled out super chargers as they are expensive. They are going to set up community chargers (Pune already has few such chargers). While it is good enough, we can't take a long break everytime to charge bikes, which is why I advocate them as secondary transport.
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If they provide Chargers alongside which helps us charge the bike at home,That'd be great.Yes,Charging this bike which pulls power of 3ACs on an Inverter is a really bad idea,But I don't understand,Stabilizers which discipline the Power,How is it bad for the bike ? Doesn't it protect from sudden surges on Power from the Bike ? I cannot agree Lithium ion Batteries lose 30% of capacity within 400 Cycles Lol,I believe they will lose 20% of their capacity after 500 Cycles.Considering that each Cycle we can travel 100 KMs (Theoritically),That's 50,000 KM Travelled in 500 Cycles full charge and discharge.Yes,I agree.Super Chargers are very expensive to set up.So they will just set up normal Chargers on Petrol Bunks.
The stabilizers have eddy and hysteresis loss - the greater the current required by the load (in this case 3 AC load) , higher are these losses. As you probably know eddy currents increase the impedance of the battery system. As it is, charging of batteries is not efficient , up to 20% electricity is lost as heat due to resistant. The stabilizer just adds to the loss. So to charge the battery fully, the cycle gets longer. Over the life time of battery, this significantly reduces the life of the battery whilst reducing the number of total recharge cycle.
A Tesla battery , even with software to manage charging and discharging losses up to 30% after 400 cycles according to cleantechnica. I am sure Tork doesn’t have such a system so it should lose more.
Charging stations near Petrol bunks are not advised due to short circuit hazards. May be they can set up community charges near major shopping centers. However those type of charges still don't address the main problem – taking long breaks for charging. Remember, the last 20% of battery takes more time to charge than the 1st 80% of battery ! Assuming you are down to 80%, you still have to wait an hour to charge fully. Of course you can meticulously plan your journey once charges are set up to optimize running time vs charging and shopping time, but I don’t see the fun in it!
Lastly, EVs are not environment friendly as long as you get majority electricity from fossil fuels and have not found a way to dispose the batteries.
A Tesla battery , even with software to manage charging and discharging losses up to 30% after 400 cycles according to cleantechnica. I am sure Tork doesn’t have such a system so it should lose more.
Charging stations near Petrol bunks are not advised due to short circuit hazards. May be they can set up community charges near major shopping centers. However those type of charges still don't address the main problem – taking long breaks for charging. Remember, the last 20% of battery takes more time to charge than the 1st 80% of battery ! Assuming you are down to 80%, you still have to wait an hour to charge fully. Of course you can meticulously plan your journey once charges are set up to optimize running time vs charging and shopping time, but I don’t see the fun in it!
Lastly, EVs are not environment friendly as long as you get majority electricity from fossil fuels and have not found a way to dispose the batteries.
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This is actually the biggest issue. If they standardize the batteries (BTW my entry for SAE world congress for 2016 was "How battery standardization can help improve HEV scenario in India" but will be presented in 2017 as I couldn't complete it for some reasons)..err..okay, if they standardize the batteries like say a single pack for all brand scooters, a single pack for any vehicle be it scooter, motorcycle or rickshaw; if they have similar capacity the battery pack will be same. This will help battery manufacturers cut a huge cost in terms of fixed costs and further the EOS will help bring battery costs down by up to 50% for them. In fact back in a conference I was told by a researcher that battery swapping can also be implemented and I even a made a business case for that. Shall be sharing the main calculation here for the benefit of members.
Back to topic, if battery costs can be dropped by up to 50% (In ITEC 2015 Mr. Anant Geete said "We want it dropped by 90%, if manufacturers work; the govt. will support - I asked him about that same day later) then that will considerably bring down the cost of electric vehicles. Let's see how it goes. All I know is that Mahindra gave an option of renting the battery to customers for E2O and in return the customers needed to pay a considerably lower amount for the EV.
The motors are way way more reliable than IC engines as all they have on the name of 'parts in contact' are 2 ball bearings. I am stating for induction or BLDC/PMDC motors.
If the battery goes for 80k kms and the manufacturer gives even 15% of the value of older battery as residual value while purchasing the new one; that is enough.
I must agree here with Rselva. Actually even if we have the chargers with a wide voltage range; losses like power factor itself and others are enough to make it efficient by up to 50% only. If the voltage is stable then all is good. The latest transmission lines we have installed have been put after making proper calculations and in last 1 year I got zero complain like voltage issues, fluctuations etc.
It's not the grid which is responsible for all this, it is the customer. If your home connection capacity is 2 kw then why run 5 kw load on it? I am in this field and there is innumerable number of customers with 2 kw or 4 kw connections on paper and running 5 - 6 - 8 or even 10 kw. We when installing transformer or upgrading it, don't go door to door to check the power load of an area; all we do it take the record based on connections and put the transformer taking our FOS into consideration (It is different at different places). And then people turn ON their AC's, the transformer gets overloaded with all FOS going down the drain resulting in fluctuations, low voltage and yes; transformers going kaput. There are colonies in city where one has near perfect power supply and neighboring colony is having voltage issues. So better add connection load in your bill and get the fixed charges increased by 100-200 bucks but enjoy proper power supply. Believe me, I am from same field.
Back to topic, if battery costs can be dropped by up to 50% (In ITEC 2015 Mr. Anant Geete said "We want it dropped by 90%, if manufacturers work; the govt. will support - I asked him about that same day later) then that will considerably bring down the cost of electric vehicles. Let's see how it goes. All I know is that Mahindra gave an option of renting the battery to customers for E2O and in return the customers needed to pay a considerably lower amount for the EV.
The motors are way way more reliable than IC engines as all they have on the name of 'parts in contact' are 2 ball bearings. I am stating for induction or BLDC/PMDC motors.
If the battery goes for 80k kms and the manufacturer gives even 15% of the value of older battery as residual value while purchasing the new one; that is enough.
I must agree here with Rselva. Actually even if we have the chargers with a wide voltage range; losses like power factor itself and others are enough to make it efficient by up to 50% only. If the voltage is stable then all is good. The latest transmission lines we have installed have been put after making proper calculations and in last 1 year I got zero complain like voltage issues, fluctuations etc.
It's not the grid which is responsible for all this, it is the customer. If your home connection capacity is 2 kw then why run 5 kw load on it? I am in this field and there is innumerable number of customers with 2 kw or 4 kw connections on paper and running 5 - 6 - 8 or even 10 kw. We when installing transformer or upgrading it, don't go door to door to check the power load of an area; all we do it take the record based on connections and put the transformer taking our FOS into consideration (It is different at different places). And then people turn ON their AC's, the transformer gets overloaded with all FOS going down the drain resulting in fluctuations, low voltage and yes; transformers going kaput. There are colonies in city where one has near perfect power supply and neighboring colony is having voltage issues. So better add connection load in your bill and get the fixed charges increased by 100-200 bucks but enjoy proper power supply. Believe me, I am from same field.
So only two parts in contact.That's just awesome.Yes,In Tork Page,The company answered my query that it will last 80,000 KMs.I also believe that 80,000 KMs is huge,I own a vehicle a minimum of 10 Years and even If I purchase it and ride it those 10 Years,I don't think I will cover even 60,000 KMs.Also within that 10 Years,I expect HUGE advancements in this technology,Who knows ? Tork might give a much better upgraded battery for the lower cost,Which will fit right in the bike just like the previous one.
You're right,Stable power Supply (I appreciate TN Govt for that,Electricity is very good in my place apart from one or two small power cuts every month) will play a vital role for this Bike's life
Also Tork Team told me that it will have subsidies,Yes they do !! It will be confirmed when we start the delivery.But will range from INR 20k to 29k.Meaning the bike will be a bit cheaper,ex-showroom 1.25L Price,Lets say without Subsidy,1.4L On-road,With subsidy...Less than 1.25L Onroad![[glasses]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Glasses.gif "Glasses [glasses]")
That's nice :)
You're right,Stable power Supply (I appreciate TN Govt for that,Electricity is very good in my place apart from one or two small power cuts every month) will play a vital role for this Bike's life
Also Tork Team told me that it will have subsidies,Yes they do !! It will be confirmed when we start the delivery.But will range from INR 20k to 29k.Meaning the bike will be a bit cheaper,ex-showroom 1.25L Price,Lets say without Subsidy,1.4L On-road,With subsidy...Less than 1.25L Onroad
That's nice :)The most important aspect of a EV is the range per charge. I am highly skeptical of 100 Km range claim. The Z-force Li-Ion Intelligent battery of 9.8kWh (Nominal Capacity – 8.6 kWh) in Zero DS with regenerative braking, with 3 phase brushless controller and better roads gives just 114km range after 6 Hours normal 100% charging. A 4 kWh (assuming nominal capacity of just 3 kWh) battery without even a 3 phase regenerative brake gives 100km range? I think a real life range of 60 – 65 km would be just about on the verge of incredulity.
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100 KM Range was mostly tested on Eco Mode and on low speeds like under 40 Kmhr.This one is 7.2kWh Lithium iON which charges 80% in an hour and takes another hour for full charge.Yes,This one also has regenerative Engine braking so we can expect 1-2 more KMs per full charge.I believe it will give more than 80KM Range when ridden on Eco mode.In performance mode,It will dip below 70 KM.It's still great for what it is :)