Same Old Confusion: Safari OR Scorpio. Now Duster & XUV Making it Tougher!


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Chauffer driven TSI and self driven Corolla..
I can totally understand your plight bro [;)]
Hehe,I myself is unable to understand my plight till date and you understood it!!!That's great.

I did see a few used Pajeros because seriously these Pajero Uncles do have a terrific road image
Not getting any nice deal in it though with lesser cars here in Indore. Haven't yet tried the gurgaon market owing to a lot of gimmicks prevalent there.
Actually Pajero is having a good resale value.Any good example does not come under 12-13 lacs.And cars in perfect condition come for at least 14-15 lacs.

Even I was thinking that SUVs inspite of having that huge 2 tonne structure are lesser safe than the sedans. [Should we comment a tall stance to be the culprit because the chasis and body all are more strudy in an SUV then why is it that a scorpio with similar airbags and ABS has lesser ANCAP with equivalent sedan. However the ANCAP for scorpio was 3 and that of fiesta or honda city was 4 that too because the car had side and curtain airbags, not having ones might have made them end with 3 either. Would like you views over it Vipul !]
Buddy that two tonne structure is life threatening in itself.
A car that breaks more(to an extent) is always safer because it dissipates or distribute more energy of collision.But SUV's break less and hence the occupants get more injured by banging with the interiors itself.I hope you got my point.

For instance the close competition to a scorpio in the sedan segment under my range is being given by Fiesta classic titanium at 9.2 lacs OTR with dual airbags and ABS and the other one doing it is a Verna Fluidic SX with similar safety features.
Vento and Rapid again due to my own strange perception of looks didn't appeal me much. Rapid , however I am still thinking to see it once more!
I was wondering that certainly Fiesta is a safer car I guess than the scorpio [However not sure of the Verna though]
Should I end up the confusion for me and go and pick the same good old Fiesta I drove happily for 9 months.
I'd recommend Rapid.It has Fiesta like handling,Vento like build quality and fantastic power with a very responsive engine.

What is your say about Verna Vipul ?
I haven't driven it for more than 2 kms that too in the city so obviously have no idea of that much condemned handling and driver dynamics.
But everywhere I have read, it has been treated as unsafe above 80km/hr.
BAKWAAS,Verna is not at all that bad as it is being published.There is no issues at least upto 100-110 kph but yes,if you frequently do 140-150-160 then Verna is not for you.I myself do such speeds and I feel that even my Corolla also is not suitable for above 150,till 150 its great.
But yes,the steering wheel feels disconnected at speed because of its lightness,else everything else is okay in the car.I have to be true and truth is that if you are a sedate driver and don't cross 110-120 kph bar then Verna is a fantastic,in fact best choice around.This 80 kph point is just a crap none else.

I am driving a 2008 made honda city gxi.
Now obviously it feels unsafe at 100 and I don't like its driving dynamics and handling at all [whenever I remember the Fiesta]. Will a Verna be very much similar to Honda City ? After-all they look quite alike in build and dynamics.
I am asking this because its difficult for me to ask these hyundai guys to give me a TD where I can check this myself. [They are selling so many Vernas that they don't pay a penny towards our concerns]
No there will be a difference.The nose heavy Verna 1.6 will have the pitching in the rear suspension.Rest body roll is more on Verna as compared to City GXi and no doubt Verna will never give you as much comfortable seating as of the City,especially in the rear.

I just feel that if a Verna is going to give that similar boat like handling then its better to have the similar thing with atleast more powerful road image [in a scorpio or safari]

XUV, somehow these days my dislike for its look has reduced and I am able to tolerate its looks now. Will take a TD soon as its Ramazan, and I didn't have enough fuel in my stomach to make me propel the car like a rocket during the day time.
Don't compare Verna with Scorpio or Safari,still the SUVs roll far more than a sedan.BTW,instead of Scorpio I'd recommend an XUV or a Safari if you love driving.And for high speed driving its the Safari or Aria only none else,especially if you dislike Yeti..ah yes,you can see Duster too or wait for Ecosport.
No issue of Ramzan,you must do some overloading int he morning,my friend does the same and then spends half of the day with me only.Same way,overload yourself in the morning,let it get digested till 10-11 and after that go for TD.

But now my range is till that W6 at 13 lacs OTR. This lack all those much praised goodies. Even the seats are fabric and look smaller and lesser bulky compared to the W8. White isn't available in W6 so I will go incase I do, for a full black one which somehow doesn't gel at all with the interiors in a W6.
No issue,instead why not book it(W8) now and until your delivery time comes,you will be having enough cash for W8 only.
BTW,are bookings open now a days?
 
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Hehe,I myself is unable to understand my plight till date and you understood it!!!That's great.



Don't compare Verna with Scorpio or Safari,still the SUVs roll far more than a sedan.BTW,instead of Scorpio I'd recommend an XUV or a Safari if you love driving.And for high speed driving its the Safari or Aria only none else,especially if you dislike Yeti..ah yes,you can see Duster too or wait for Ecosport.

No issue of Ramzan,you must do some overloading int he morning,my friend does the same and then spends half of the day with me only.Same way,overload yourself in the morning,let it get digested till 10-11 and after that go for TD.

No issue,instead why not book it(W8) now and until your delivery time comes,you will be having enough cash for W8 only.
BTW,are bookings open now a days?
Hey Vipul!

Sorry for the delayed response.
was occupied with loads of business works and its much more complicating than deciding between the XUVs [frustration]

And as per your advice on loading in ramazan, [;)] I did exactly this and went ahead for the XUVs TD.
Here is the detail of my assessments.

I test drove XUV 500 and the scorpio just after that.
Now since I am more inclined towards scorpio, I tried my level best to stay neutral and then relate everything on its suitability for my needs and utility.

Considering my exclusive needs, there are only two most important and well noticeable differences which will certainly matter for me:

1. In XUV, there is more power surge kicking in beyond 70 (in 3rd gear) and it zipps from this point; till which both of them perform in the similar manner. I guess this is what accounts for XUVs 2 seconds faster 0-100 and only .3 seconds faster 0-60.
(XUV pulls all the way till 120 however scorpio gives up at 105 and then the gear shift to fourth and same story repeated for XUV, 150 and the scorp,130.
Certainly for a driving enthusiast, XUV was more fun but didn't find the scorpio to be a disappointment either. Scorp felt atleast much better than my 2008 city GXI )

2. The second difference became evident when I tried quick lane changing several times as well as tight maneuvering to dodge bikes and other on road traffic so as to check for the handling, stability and body roll parameter, all at speeds close to 100-120, Now again I must confess XUV felt much more planted and Scorpio was little more like as if it was all over the place!
Being precise, the XUV scared my co-passengers much lesser than what the scorpio did.
Also being on the the driver's front, even I felt at some point as if the tyres didn't hold well for the scorpio and it floated by loosing some grip whereas at the same road and same situation, XUV hugged the road better.

One important mention.
The scorpio though it was VLX still had crappy Apollo ATs 235/70 R16 and the XUV had Bridgestone Dueler HTs 235/65 R17.


Remedies Now!

I. For the power thing, there is always a Petes box
(my friend's scorpio with dieseltronic I drove was quite fast and even had bigger adrenaline rush than the XUV, was more fun as well but the suspension was scaring obviously which prohibited further sprints.
The claimed 25 %- 30 % gain (peak and 35- 40 % off peak) would have made the bhp and torque figures close to 150-156 and 365-377 nm respectively. However there was no dyno to prove and due to the jitters it gave by shaking its booty hindered us to do our own ultimate dyno, THE SPIRITED ROAD RASH!)

II. For the suspension, should I expect the scorpio to come anywhere closer to this monocoque designed XUV, in the handling department after the Blistein B6 ??
Also would it make some difference once the scorpio is given a new pair of shoes, 275/60 R17 alongwith the Blistein owing to the fact that it had crappy apollos which might have been responsible for that loss of grip at 110 while sharp lane changing and made the scorpio float and thrown from its line ?

Techies, please shed some light!
 
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A Scorpio with bilstein suspension and tuning box will not come anywhere near the monocoque designed XUV. If just a suspension change could do such wonders, M&M would have done it long back.
 
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A Scorpio with bilstein suspension and tuning box will not come anywhere near the monocoque designed XUV. If just a suspension change could do such wonders, M&M would have done it long back.
+1 to raj, just a suspension and tire change would not bring scorpio's handling come close to XUV's handling prowess, if you are not much into off roading XUV will fit you perfectly with great handling and more power without any modification,
 
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Don't compare Verna with Scorpio or Safari,still the SUVs roll far more than a sedan.BTW,instead of Scorpio I'd recommend an XUV or a Safari if you love driving.And for high speed driving its the Safari or Aria only none else,especially if you dislike Yeti..ah yes,you can see Duster too or wait for Ecosport.
BTW,are bookings open now a days?
Vipul, today evening I got a call from TSM, Tata Motors. I met him during a visit to tata showroom and developed good relationships owing to being from similar management profession.

I tried enquiring from him about the Safari storme which he said will be hitting the market in september.

Now as per the reviews scattered all over, storme will be priced with its top end around 14-15 lacs.
So are there any chances of price reduction or discounts on this Safari VX which is costing 14 lacs OTR (However with discounts, it would be around 13.5 lacs)

Its already priced in a very inappropriate way with Rs 1.39 lacs difference between its own gx lacking only in terms of dvd player, seats in the head rests, cameras in the IRVM and the airbags. (Airbag is the only one of my interest)

I am rasising this question as the only thing which has kept me away from a safari is the 1.75 lacs difference from the scorpio VLX with airbags. (Even after a blistein upgrade, it remains 1.35 lacs overpriced) I haven't included the alloy wheels, tuning box and the K and N as they would even be put in the safari incase I buy it.

Had this safari been say 12 -12.5 lacs OTR, I would have felt it to be a VFM and gone for it over the scorpio.

But this car at a price 13.5 when the parallel XUV having similar features like dual airbags and ABS and lacking only in alloy wheels is priced at 13.18 OTR, then the safari clearly doesn't sound VFM. [frustration]

Hence now all I am wondering is should I expect any discount or price slash with storme around. (I am not interested in the storme, so no discussions over it)

Or again these fool Tata Folks will overprice it like 18 lacs for Aria, keep it as such for 3-4 months only to realize pathetic sales figure and then start similar 2.5 lacs discount as they are giving now on the Aria. [anger]
After all they are marketing it with the fact that it shares the similar Aria platform. I hope it doesn't share the similar fate as the aria. [lol]
 
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A Scorpio with bilstein suspension and tuning box will not come anywhere near the monocoque designed XUV. If just a suspension change could do such wonders, M&M would have done it long back.
Hmm it certainly sounds sense Raj.

By the way what do you have to say on my previous post about discounts for Tata Safari due to storme knocking round the corner.
 
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Hmm it certainly sounds sense Raj.

By the way what do you have to say on my previous post about discounts for Tata Safari due to storme knocking round the corner.
It is almost confirmed that both the older Safari and the Storme will sell alongside. Hence, do not expect any major discounts on the older Safari.

Also, we can never be sure, maybe TATA will discontinue the top end variants of the current Safari so that it does not clash with the Storme. This is just a guess though.
 
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It is almost confirmed that both the older Safari and the Storme will sell alongside. Hence, do not expect any major discounts on the older Safari.

Also, we can never be sure, maybe TATA will discontinue the top end variants of the current Safari so that it does not clash with the Storme. This is just a guess though.
Hmm..
But I do trust your speculations after reading your posts in different forums. [clap]

S might be these Tata guys will stop the VX variant manufacture as they stopped BS3 in only Gx and Vx models with lower end LX and EX still having one.
But can they do it as it will then leave them with no model having the airbags, such a requisite when safety for high end vehicles is discussed. [confused]
(However since its Tata, so anything can happen)
 
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OMG! Now you are putting me in trouble!
Ha ha...[lol]

Seriously, I do keep an eye one your posts.
After all, you are one big scorpio lover and defender. [clap]

And, you won't believe, two days ago, reading one of your old post over a theft attempt on your scorpio actually made my check me Honda City thrice while I was in a meeting with my company CA at his office which happens to be in a commercial building; always running out of parking space.

Had to park the car in some secluded area with trees all around at the back side of the building.

A question Raj !

Mine is Honda City Gxi, 2008 model.
What are the anti theft devices in it. It doesn't even has any buzzer in the remote key lock.
There is just three blinks of the light when I close it and one blink when I open it.

So does it has the similar immobilizer ? As in that case I haven't yet changed any codes. (Its pretty lame on my part after being with automobiles for so long, I didn't do it.)

Or the I-cat system ?

And about the much discussed question; the workshop guys partnering in thefts, it is very much true.
I can say this as my accidented Fiesta is having so many buyers eager to take it at a good price (there are mostly engine damages in it) and when I asked one of them that how would he get it repaired, when the showroom repair costs are exceeding 6 lacs, he smiled and said he has accessibility to parts from the workshops in Delhi and even here in Indore through these head mechanics.
These guys either remove parts claiming it to be worn out and showing the customer an actual worn sample they have.
Later they sell these expensive parts, like the PCM, injection pump, turbo etc to these guys looking to repair the cars.

Also the stolen cars get dismantled in any local workshop with the help of these workshop mechanics and the poor vehicle's parts are then donated to the cars requiring these full repairs.

Its a big business in Delhi Mumbai etc.

SIMPLY DISTURBING TO REALIZE [frustration] !
 
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And, you won't believe, two days ago, reading one of your old post over a theft attempt on your scorpio actually made my check me Honda City thrice while I was in a meeting with my company CA at his office which happens to be in a commercial building; always running out of parking space.
You dont have to worry. A petrol car being jacked will a rarity now!

A question Raj !

Mine is Honda City Gxi, 2008 model.
What are the anti theft devices in it. It doesn't even has any buzzer in the remote key lock.
There is just three blinks of the light when I close it and one blink when I open it.

So does it has the similar immobilizer ? As in that case I haven't yet changed any codes. (Its pretty lame on my part after being with automobiles for so long, I didn't do it.)

Or the I-cat system ?
As far as I know, Honda City does have an immobilizer which is similar to the ICAT system in Marutis. However, these are pretty easy to decode and basically of no use.

I have not heard of much stories of Hondas getting stolen, still you can invest in a gear and steering lock if you want. Even that can be broken but a thief will look for the easiest possible car to break into, so he may choose some other car from the parking lot which will require lesser effort than trying to steal your car.

There are many tracking systems available. You can invest in one if you are very paranoid.

But the best anti-theft protection would be your car's insurance.
 
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OMG! Now you are putting me in trouble!
Hi Raj

I have been quite slow for last few days. You can blame empty stomach for this. [Ramazan] [;)]

Still Undecided. However waiting for my final settlement of my Ford Fiesta with the insurance guys.

Just came across some random info and thought you are the right person to ask about it.

The Xylo E9 which has the same engine as the scorpio [mhawk 2.2]; I even checked them physically at the workshop and are really similar, has been reported to have a lower torque, 280 Nm unlike the scorpio which is 290 Nm.

Now here is what is making me think.

Xylo E9 - claimed 0-100 in just 12.9 seconds

Claimed by auto car and also in many reviews and forums.
New Xylo vs Innova by Autocar India - YouTube

However there are still a lot of reviews from reliable sources, claiming it to be the same as the stock scorpio, which is 14.8 seconds

Now what's the true secret behind it ?
Even you have mentioned on other forum in your post on indian SUVs and MUVs, that the new xylo has its 0-100 in 12.9 only. [Is it actually ?]

Now how has that been possible when it has the same engine and its 1830 in kerb weight when scorpio is 1850; just a difference of 20 kgs and when scorpio has 290 Nm torque over 1800-2800 and xylo only has this rush between 2400-2800, as in the xylo brochure
Is that the 215 and 235 rubber which is making this huge difference or is this 20 kg so great ??
(the XUV also has the similar engine, the 2.2 but it clearly has a different gearbox, turbo and higher set of tune to 140 bhp, hence its quite acceptable to be this fast; 12.5 seconds, BUT XYLO in 12.9...God! It makes it at par fortuner [embarass]

Also the other query was what is this EST [Extra Stability Technology] Mahindra is boasting about in the new E9. It obviously isn't the ESP then what is it ?
Does this xylo handles better than the scorpio now [Don't believe it though] ?

Now obviously I am not at all thinking of going for a xylo but asking all this to know the scorpio more as its probably going to be my next ride.
Since I am looking ahead for mods like TB, suspension, K and N and fat rubber, hence wanted to know the potentials of the mhawk, the scorpio has.

I have eliminated the idea of 275s and now planning for 255/60 R17 which has just .33% error in the rolling did unlike the 3.59% in the case of 275/60 R17.
Now what do you think; will having broader 275s resulting in larger wheelbase would have handled better or the 255s which will be having .5 inches lesser side profile and more flat rubber patch in contact with the road will do it for me. [I have 17" alloys having 8" wide rims. It makes 275s bulge a little and 255s quite flat with lesser side profile]

Waiting to hear from you Raj and sorry for being so inquisitive. But as I said, you, through your posts have been one prime reason of my increased interest in the scorpio, hence you will have to bear me now. :sorry:
 
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I read some reviews which mentioned that xylo has a new gearbox mated to the e9 which makes it faster than scorpio with the 0-100 speeds .
Apart from that the lower overall weight of the xylo could be the reason for the lower timings.
The EST as far as i know is not ESP but anti roll bar which is now added in the xylo which were not present in them earlier.
Even the newer scorpio has those in them.
 
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Hi Raj

I have been quite slow for last few days. You can blame empty stomach for this. [Ramazan] [;)]

.............

Waiting to hear from you Raj and sorry for being so inquisitive. But as I said, you, through your posts have been one prime reason of my increased interest in the scorpio, hence you will have to bear me now. :sorry:
Dont go sooooooo deep into these magazine reviews. At best, take them as a ready reckoner to compare cars.

Coming to the difference in acceleration timings, it can be various reasons -
1) Difference in weight, though its marginal
2) Aerodynamics
3) Testing conditions (Scorpio could have been tested in wet conditions)
4) Driver - a better driver could have been driving the Xylo
5) Finally, human error

Whether it's 12 seconds or 14, just take them as a reference when you go for a test drive. After all, its the test drive which reveals the actual story.
 
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Scorpio is up for an update. I don't know exactly how long the new one will hit the market. As per my choice, I will opt for the Safari. I know niggles will come up, but it is IMO a better choice than Scorpio. The latter has a terrific engine. What bothers me is the ride quality and handling. Xylo being faster could be true but all that is possible in a straight line. Safaris will be faster than Xylos and Scoprios, given it has better handling characteristics. No offenses to Scorpio or Xylo owner though.
Do correct me if i am wrong.[:)]
 
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