An Odd Comparo: Fiat Punto 90HP VS Toyota Innova D4-D!


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Is nt it bit exaggerating to call Innova a VAN ?
I always felt Innova is a right vehicle neither an suv nor a sedan but a mix of both worlds in right proportions.I still wonder why toyota Hesitated to call it a Xover.
I hope you have missed out Toyota Haice that is what a van is upright seats bulky shape and crude ride. ?
But the negative points is as Raj mentioned , the build quality and too high asking price .
Actually buddy these kind of vehicles are called Vans or mini vans. If you check the US Toyota's website you will find these kind of UV under the category "Mini Van". And all these UV's here are called Van. And i'm not exaggerating it buddy. It's what i feel.
 
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Is D-4D that bad?I used to think that D-4D is slightly underpowered but you raised the bar quite high.
I dont know. I have heard many people with different opinions on the D-4D.

My opinion is that, even though it feels sprightly in city speeds, it is a disaster on "real" highways. It feels terribly slow and also noisy, not something I expect from a car of this price.

BTW,90HP Punto also feels sluggish considering a 90 hp powerplant under the hood.
I know. But it still feels better than the Innova, if you get past the first 2 gears.

My Corolla is not having even 90 bhp its just 88 but still it can outrun a Punto 90.So calling the Punto 90 a good performer is not that justifiable.Yes it performs better than Innova but still it has got a gearbox which eclipses the power while Innova as got the perfect gearbox for the car.
I wont claim Punto is a good performer. It is far from it.

All I said is - it is better than the Innova.

Also, both Innova and Punto has got terrible gear ratios. Punto's is annoyingly tall and Innova has got such short ratios that it screams at 120 kmph.
 
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I myself always thought of Innova as very powerfull car. On highway Innovas would just blaze pass you even when you are doing 90-100kmph. But reading the comments here and other threads I am bit surprised and also nervous about how these people are controlling Innova on those high speeds. [surprise][confused]
 
Thread Starter #19
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Its simple. Drive your Punto on the highway at 120 kmph and then drive the Innova at 120 kmph.

Both cars will reach 120 kmph, but notice the difference in effort and refinement. And then press the throttle to accelerate to 140 kmph. Again notice the effort.

It is simple enough if you compare the torque figure of Innova to other cars.
 
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I have had good sleep atleast yesterday & can stay behind wall, so [sleep] & [gun] won't affect me here ;).

Before I say something, I must say that Raj has mentioned pros & cons of both cars in nice way but comparo is wrong.

Reason - What is more important is RELIABILITY than 0-100 & it is here where Innova outscores Punto. It is just like people who want reliability in their premium saloons opt for Merc, while those focused purely on driver buy a BMW.

BTW, here is a comparo where PRICE is different (price needs to be same, right ?). Swift vs Punto & T-Jet Vs Innova would have been better though.

And last but not the least, I will still buy Innova over Punto for peace of mind & good A.s.s. Ofcourse, for 15L, best to buy Jetta & enjoy everything which Innova + Punto combined can offer. [:)]
 
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^^^

1) The pricing is different, both the cars belong to different segments and that is the reason I have mentioned that the comparison is ODD.

2) Different people, different priorities. I do need a reliable car but I am not someone who will pay a HUGE premium in the name of reliability.

3) [gun]
 
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Hey guys, its been quite some time I wrote anything about the Innova. Since I had nothing much to say about the car, I thought of this awkward comparison between my Punto and the Innova. For this comparo, I have been judging and driving both the cars back to back for the past 3 days.

Since, there are numerous pics in my ownership threads of both the cars, I wont add to many pics in here. Those who feel that this comparo is weird and waste of time --->

Looks :

Well, people say looks are subjective. I agree. I have been an SUV fan and I like big/huge vehicles. The Innova is BIG but errr... it just does not cut in. It does not have the presence nor the image of a big vehicle. It is not sporty nor is it brawny. It is a typical mini van which looks like it is meant to ferry a family in decent comfort. And does a family man care about looks? Heck, no. It serves the purpose. Clearly, the japanese Toyota has given priority to function over form.

It's the opposite when it comes to the Italian Fiat. Functionality be damned, the car should look sexy... I have never been to Italy but I just admire them for the sense of style and aesthetics that they have. See any Italian car and they look drop dead gorgeous - FIAT, MASERATI, ALFA ROMEO, FERRARI and LAMBORGHINI. Yes, please ignore certain models of LANCIA! Ok, now coming to the Punto, this timeless design was sketched way back in 2007 but still looks oh-so-good. It is a clean design with the right amount of muscularity and stance. I feel sorry that the car had to be raised for the Indian roads. There are no confusing creases and cuts, it's just a simple and classy looking car. I have seen very few people complaining about the way the Punto looks.

Innova - 0
Punto - 1


Engine and performance :

The Innova comes with a 2494 cc D-4D engine which produces 102PS @ 3600 rpm and max torque of 200 NM @ 1400-3400 rpm. The Punto has the National engine - 1248 cc Multijet engine with 93 PS @ 4000 rpm and max torque of 209 NM @ 2000 rpm. Yes, you read it right... The 8 Lac Punto makes more torque than the 15 Lac Innova!

But point to note here is - how and when is the torque produced. If you notice, the Innova attains it's peak torque a whole 600 rpm before the Punto. And that matters a lot in the city. In real world conditions, especially in the first two gears, the Innova feels much more responsive and sprightly when compared to the Punto. On a drag race, the Innova will leave behind the Punto, atleast for the first few seconds.

But things change when both the cars reach 3rd gear. This is where now Punto shows it's true colors. Performance from here onwards is strong and you can expect a pull which will bring it closer to the Innova which was leading till now. By the time you reach 100-110 kmph, the Innova gets bogged down in 5th gear whereas the Punto still pulls easily in 4th or 5th gear. The Punto climbs all the way till 140-150 kmph easily whereas the Innova struggles beyond 120 kmph.This is because of the superior aerodynamics and power-to-weight ratio of the Punto.

So overall Punto wins this round.

Innova - 0
Punto - 2


Space and comfort :

The cabin of the Innova is leagues ahead of the Punto. Be it the space or the quality of plastics used, the Innova has an edge. But surprisingly, the front seats of the Punto feels more spacious than the Innova's. In the rear seats, there is no comparison. Innova is business class and the Punto is economy! Innova has the advantage of the 3rd row too. Boot space is obviously more in the Innova as it has the flexibility of folding the 3rd row. Even Punto's rear seat can be folded, but because of the enormous width and height of the Innova, it is a no brainer that the Innova comes out as a clear winner in this one.

BUT, when we talk about comfort, we also need to check the seats. The front seats of Innova are not as good as the one on the Punto. My Innova has rear bench seats which again is not as good as the one in the Punto. But Innova comes with an option of captain seats in the rear and they are supremely comfortable. Punto has a clutch foot rest which is a boon on long drives. The Innova lacks this. So this one goes to the Innova...

Innova - 1
Punto - 2


Reliability and ownership -

Even a kid knows that Toyota is the epitome when it comes to reliability. My 1.1 Lac driven Innova has had no issues other than general servicing and some worn parts. BUT, Toyota's A.S.S. is damn expensive. The oil change is every 5000 kms and servicing costs and spare parts are very very expensive.

Comparatively, Punto has it's service only once in 15000 kms. Servicing charges are cheap and even parts are cheap. Reliability is not bad, though not as good as Toyota either. I have had a bearing failure within 12k kms.

A.S.S. experience depends. Right now, FIAT is giving me better service than Toyota. But that is my personal experience. If we go by user reports across the country, then it is quite evident that Toyota is far better than Fiat when it comes ownership experience. So i give it to the Toyota here.

Innova - 2
Punto -2


Ride and handling :

When compared to other UVs, the Innova has a great ride and handling combo. The ride is flat and cushioning always. But due to the small tyres, it can get a bit choppy and hard at slow speeds in potholed roads.

Punto is known to be the leader when it comes to ride and handling. The handling is amazing to say the least, stability at high speeds is perfect and the suspension soaks up all the bumps without transmitting anything inside the cabin.

No doubts about it, Punto is the clear winner when it comes to ride and handling. But when compared to the UVs, the Innova is the best. So let's give this a tie...

Innova - 3
Punto - 3


Features :

My Innova has AC, rear AC vents, power windows, electric ORVMs and power steering in the name of features! All these are standard even in a 3 Lac hatch, so nothing extra ordinary here.

Punto has all of the above plus Automatic Climate control, Blue&Me, My Car, MID, etc. I am not mentioning the small extras like flip key, mood lighting, automatic door lock, speed sensitive audio, etc. Punto does have rear AC vents but it is under the front seats and pretty mediocre, not like the one in the Innova.

My Innova does not have a USB facility and steering mounted controls which the Punto has. But the new facelifted Innova has these, so I'll let it go!

Even though the Innova is much larger than the Punto, both the car comes with 15" alloys. So, Punto wins in this round.

Innova - 3
Punto - 4


Safety :

Innova has seatbelts, 2 Airbags with ABS. That's about it. I feel it is not good for a 15 Lac van.

Punto has a 5 star crash test rating. Apart from the above, it also has rear fog lamps, ABS with EBD.

If it matters, build quality and sheet metal strength of the Punto is far superior. Innova feels flimsy and tinny in comparison. The bumpers are wafer thin in comparison.

Innova - 3
Punto - 5


So, in the end, it is the Punto which I feel is more value for money when compared to the Innova. Some may have expected this! There maybe some Toyota fans who may feel that Toyota is asking a premium which is justified but sadly, I dont feel the same. I dont understand the logic behind paying a huge sum and then being deprived of a powerful engine and features and living with an expensive A.S.S., all for the brand value. Adios.
Nice writeup Raj sirji, though the comparison is not possible for these vehicles, but i agree with whatever you mentioned in the post. Interesting post, i must say.

Leave it,I reread it and found that its based upon your personal experience and hence this may be true-but for you.
Again in the opposite courts sirji[gun].
I am talking about A.S.S. and reliability part.
Not even that bad, as every one starts yelling about it(6 Year long exp. with tata ass)



BTW,90HP Punto also feels sluggish considering a 90 hp powerplant under the hood.My Corolla is not having even 90 bhp its just 88 but still it can outrun a Punto 90.So calling the Punto 90 a good performer is not that justifiable.
It is not about 0-100 buddy its about overall performance, quite possible someday you would see a 800 with better 0-100 figures than punto but it doesn't implies that it is a good performer.


Reason - What is more important is RELIABILITY than 0-100 & it is here where Innova outscores Punto.
and what about safety bro?

BTW, here is a comparo where PRICE is different (price needs to be same, right ?).
Already mentioned by raj sir that its an odd comparison.

I think the third reason was the best.Totally agree.
I think you just need to hold a flag showing[evil].

BTW, this avatar suits you better[lol].
 
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Again in the opposite courts sirji.
Haha,we guys are born to represent opposite courts!![gun]
Whatever you call it but we are,weather its Punto Vs Innova(I am a hardcore sedan lover but still like Innova) or Tata Vs Mahindra or Diesel Vs Petrol.God has planned both of us to represent opposite courts only.

Not even that bad, as every one starts yelling about it(6 Year long exp. with tata ass)
Who said Tata A.S.S. is that bad?Only Toyota A.S.S. is better.At least here and some more places I know.But one thing is well noted,in Raj's area the Tata A.S.S. is better than that of Toyota.And I am sure now he will tell us "Spare parts availability is also better than that of Toyota".

It is not about 0-100 buddy its about overall performance, quite possible someday you would see a 800 with better 0-100 figures than punto but it doesn't implies that it is a good performer.
Innova takes a royal beating from Punto,no doubt but if you compare Corolla(which I mentioned)then..
Buddy weather its 0-100 or top speed or in-gear acceleration(responsiveness),once the turbo is on and Corolla gives a good beating to Punto,while the power to weight ratio thing makes it tough to believe but thanks to Fiat for providing a completely un-suitable gearbox in Punto that half of the power seems to be going waste for most of the time,especially when you are pressing on gas.
Rest weather its Innova or Corolla or Punto,all three makes the driver a habitual of driving with a heavy foot.

and what about safety bro?
Weather its Punto or Innova both are equal here,only Punto has an advantage of better dynamics,EBD and of course better braking which gives it a good edge in front of Innova.But then these two things dynamics and braking must be ignored when comparing a hatch to a MUV.

I think you just need to hold a flag showing[evil].

BTW, this avatar suits you better.
Haha,I am already holding the flag.The one from the movie pirates.
About the avatar,its from a cartoon called 'Kid Vs Kat'.And of course I like the wicked KAT.
 
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"Spare parts availability is also better than that of Toyota".
Its fine if we have to wait for some time if they are much cheaper than toyota.

once the turbo is on and Corolla gives a good beating to Punto.
Same is valid for punto as well, if its in turbo zone its unbeatable. Though i haven't driven Corolla, so can't comment but sure about punto.

while the power to weight ratio thing makes it tough to believe but thanks to Fiat for providing a completely un-suitable gearbox in Punto that half of the power seems to be going waste for most of the time,especially when you are pressing on gas.
Well this setup of gearbox makes it much more drivable, in city as well as on highway. Its comfortable to drive punto in city. Just good 0-100 figures are not possible, but it doesn't make it slow or poor performer in any way.

Rest weather its Innova or Corolla or Punto,all three makes the driver a habitual of driving with a heavy foot.
Punto have made me feel like a king, i don't drive with heavy foot. But i used to drive my 1.4 L Xeta with heavy foot, nearly always.

Weather its Punto or Innova both are equal here,only Punto has an advantage of better dynamics,EBD and of course better braking which gives it a good edge in front of Innova.But then these two things dynamics and braking must be ignored when comparing a hatch to a MUV.
Only....[lol] in case of safety you are saying only, these things can save your life in case of any miss.... BTW, Punto also has better build quality, as Raj sir mentioned(heavy gauge body).


Toyota advantages over fiat
*Better ass.
*Parts availability but costly.

These are the only which any other company can offer in a better way than fiat. But the list ends here. You can't carry any above mentioned things with you while on the run.

But in case of Fiat you always carry perfection with you, be it breaking, dynamics, engine, safety, body, suspension, steering, high speed stability, looks(don't like looks of any toyota).

And my dear friend these things together are only associated with fiat that is why we fiat owners don't bother about 0-100 figures and parts availability(not faced it).[;)]
 
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And I am sure now he will tell us "Spare parts availability is also better than that of Toyota".
You are assuming things. Spare parts availability is much better with Toyota.

Innova takes a royal beating from Punto,no doubt but if you compare Corolla(which I mentioned)then..
Buddy weather its 0-100 or top speed or in-gear acceleration(responsiveness),once the turbo is on and Corolla gives a good beating to Punto,while the power to weight ratio thing makes it tough to believe but thanks to Fiat for providing a completely un-suitable gearbox in Punto that half of the power seems to be going waste for most of the time,especially when you are pressing on gas.
Rest weather its Innova or Corolla or Punto,all three makes the driver a habitual of driving with a heavy foot.
Yes, Corolla is better than Punto.

Weather its Punto or Innova both are equal here,only Punto has an advantage of better dynamics,EBD and of course better braking which gives it a good edge in front of Innova.But then these two things dynamics and braking must be ignored when comparing a hatch to a MUV.
Even the Toyota Prado which is much more expensive has a 4 star crash test rating. You expect the Innova to be better than it? Heck, the Innova has not even been crash tested. Do a google search and you will note that Innova is not all that safe as you think. Many times in a head on collision, the car is crushed beyond recognition.

When we dint ignore space, third row, boot, etc. and gave that point to the Innova, why leave out dynamics because Punto is a hatch? Be fair.
 
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Its fine if we have to wait for some time if they are much cheaper than toyota.
And what to do if the life of those 'cheaper' spares is half of those expensive ones.Take it this way:-
Cheaper spare costed 2k,expensive one costed 3.5k.
Cheaper one ran only 5k kms and expensive one ran for 15k,now which is really cheaper.
C'mon yaar,at least don't tell us about the 'virtual' savings.

Same is valid for punto as well, if its in turbo zone its unbeatable. Though i haven't driven Corolla, so can't comment but sure about punto.
But I have driven Punto and Corolla both and commented based on those observations only.

Well this setup of gearbox makes it much more drivable, in city as well as on highway. Its comfortable to drive punto in city. Just good 0-100 figures are not possible, but it doesn't make it slow or poor performer in any way.
Definition of drivability may be different for both of us,hence this can't be concluded any day.

Punto have made me feel like a king, i don't drive with heavy foot. But i used to drive my 1.4 L Xeta with heavy foot, nearly always.
Hmm,from 1.4 Xeta to Punto.I understood,you are also happy driving without pressing the gas paddle.Raj bhai,I expect you to be honest-HAVE YOU LEARNT DRIVING WITH HEAVY FOOT FROM PUNTO??

Only.... in case of safety you are saying only, these things can save your life in case of any miss.... BTW, Punto also has better build quality, as Raj sir mentioned(heavy gauge body).
+100[clap],my mistake it was.

But in case of Fiat you always carry perfection with you, be it breaking, dynamics, engine, safety, body, suspension, steering, high speed stability, looks(don't like looks of any toyota).

And my dear friend these things together are only associated with fiat that is why we fiat owners don't bother about 0-100 figures and parts availability(not faced it).
Buddy Meerut's first T-Jet was owned by a friend,driven that car a lot.No doubt it was a fabulous car and was used for 48k kms in just 13 months.But at the end the Fiat spares availability forced the guy to trade it in for a Honda City 'V'.
No doubt Fiat offers the best of all worlds but still overall interior quality and A.S.S. always put it down.

Yes, Corolla is better than Punto.
Comparing them directly will be unfair,it will be better if we keep it limited to just engine,gearbox and net performance.


Even the Toyota Prado which is much more expensive has a 4 star crash test rating. You expect the Innova to be better than it? Heck, the Innova has not even been crash tested. Do a google search and you will note that Innova is not all that safe as you think. Many times in a head on collision, the car is crushed beyond recognition.

When we dint ignore space, third row, boot, etc. and gave that point to the Innova, why leave out dynamics because Punto is a hatch? Be fair.
Dunno why,but in our area Innovas are least involved in accidents and I don't believe the way you bash it on safety.My dear I have also kept an Innova for 92k kms and can you expect a car to be accident free in my hands?
It may not be all that safe as I think but I can bet that its not all that unsafe as you think.More people die in Scorpios and Safaris in our area because the drivers drive them and are unable to control them at mean time.At least Innova has the capability of bearing the hard steering and brake inputs and I believe that safety comes from this as this can avoid the collision itself.
 
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Hi raj..

Its really nice comparison..

i too own g model innova and active model punto..

my review is also more or less same as yours..

really nice comparison..

Cheers
 
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And what to do if the life of those 'cheaper' spares is half of those expensive ones.Take it this way:-
Cheaper spare costed 2k,expensive one costed 3.5k.
Cheaper one ran only 5k kms and expensive one ran for 15k,now which is really cheaper.
I suppose linea and punto are only vehicles along with volkswagon which offer service at the gap of 15000 km, which implies that parts are enough reliable to withstand the gap, and quality of parts.

C'mon yaar,at least don't tell us about the 'virtual' savings.
Doesn't it save, and be counted in real savings.

But I have driven Punto and Corolla both and commented based on those observations only.
If it is then i agree and trust you as well as Raj.

Definition of drivability may be different for both of us,hence this can't be concluded any day.
I Agree but don't you like to drive effortlessly in city? without much gear shifts. Though in delhi's traffic nothing is easy to drive, but still...

Hmm,from 1.4 Xeta to Punto.I understood,you are also happy driving without pressing the gas paddle.Raj bhai,I expect you to be honest-HAVE YOU LEARNT DRIVING WITH HEAVY FOOT FROM PUNTO??
I honestly mentioned, now i have become sedate driver, reason is that i don't wanna scratch my ride. BTW its not related to FE, i never cared about FE driving XETA or Punto.

Buddy Meerut's first T-Jet was owned by a friend,driven that car a lot.No doubt it was a fabulous car and was used for 48k kms in just 13 months.But at the end the Fiat spares availability forced the guy to trade it in for a Honda City 'V'.
Every new product face some problems.

No doubt Fiat offers the best of all worlds but still overall interior quality and A.S.S. always put it down.
I think t-jet has good interiors and now linea emo has them too.

Comparing them directly will be unfair,it will be better if we keep it limited to just engine,gearbox and net performance.
Here I agree with Raj.

Dunno why,but in our area Innovas are least involved in accidents and I don't believe the way you bash it on safety.My dear I have also kept an Innova for 92k kms and can you expect a car to be accident free in my hands?
Yes at least i can expect from a TAI member.

It may not be all that safe as I think but I can bet that its not all that unsafe as you think.More people die in Scorpios and Safaris in our area because the drivers drive them and are unable to control them at mean time.At least Innova has the capability of bearing the hard steering and brake inputs and I believe that safety comes from this as this can avoid the collision itself.
Can't comment on this.
 

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