Tata Harrier (H5X): All-New SUV From Tata Motors

[drpath]

tata harrier is most confused product ever to be made . I would like to enumerate them (the confusions) and as i,m not any auto expert i would like to get my doubts clarified .
1 THE CHASSIS - Based on legendary D8 of discovery sport and called omega arc due to heavy modification ,most importantly changing the metal from aluminium to tungustan steel that takes away the weight advantage and sturdiness benefits . Also changing the rear suspension system to that level that no possibility of A W D even in the future
Now what i don,t understand is this that if you modify/delete all the advantages of a legendary system ,then why use it ?
If you replace aluminium to tung steel for cost benefits how is the product premium
It seems to me like oppo/vivo giving bezel free smart phone and charging premium over it by telling, its inspired by apple iphone x
kindly enlighten me

 

[drpath]

Era of confusion continued
2. SHAPE AND SIZE -Its true that we Indians like it big ,but with emerging traffic situation now the practicality is making sense .Tata has build a huge vehicle which gives it enormous road presence and we do like it ,but only 5 seats/manual only will make it less preferred drive for daily commute .In my opinion size of creta/compass actually score more favorable points over harrier .
Now what i don,t understand is this that if you have to make a comfortable 5 seater why make it larger than your competitor 7 seater aka xuv 500 ?
Even with this huge size and spare wheel underneath, the boot space is tad small
If i,ve to go for shopping/movie i,ll prefer something like wagon r/nexon /creta for family of 4-5 and if the occupants are 6-7 i,ll prefer xuv 500/innova/hexa for the same, while on off roading i,ll prefer duster 4by 4 /compass 4by 4 for 4-5 occupants and hexa awd/xuv500 awd if occupants are more than 5 .
So actually i,m not convinced with the size on offer especially with the capabilities/ boot space of the vehicle
Someone kindly give me insight on that thanks

 

[D.J.D.]

Era of confusion continued
2. SHAPE AND SIZE -Its true that we Indians like it big ,but with emerging traffic situation now the practicality is making sense .Tata has build a huge vehicle which gives it enormous road presence and we do like it ,but only 5 seats/manual only will make it less preferred drive for daily commute .In my opinion size of creta/compass actually score more favorable points over harrier .
Now what i don,t understand is this that if you have to make a comfortable 5 seater why make it larger than your competitor 7 seater aka xuv 500 ?
Even with this huge size and spare wheel underneath, the boot space is tad small
If i,ve to go for shopping/movie i,ll prefer something like wagon r/nexon /creta for family of 4-5 and if the occupants are 6-7 i,ll prefer xuv 500/innova/hexa for the same, while on off roading i,ll prefer duster 4by 4 /compass 4by 4 for 4-5 occupants and hexa awd/xuv500 awd if occupants are more than 5 .

You are spot on. Regarding size of the vehicle, i also have the same doubt. Why to design a car longer than 7 seaters and provide only 5 seats. IMO TML has to price this car very carefully. If they price this car more than XUV, it will be really hard for them to sell. XUV has AT, AWD, all disc brakes, sun roof etc. extra. Tata may say land rover pedigree, heritage blaah blaah... but for a common man VFM is one of the most important criteria.

 

[navnit013]

tata harrier is most confused product ever to be made . I would like to enumerate them (the confusions) and as i,m not any auto expert i would like to get my doubts clarified .
1 THE CHASSIS - Based on legendary D8 of discovery sport and called omega arc due to heavy modification ,most importantly changing the metal from aluminium to tungustan steel that takes away the weight advantage and sturdiness benefits . Also changing the rear suspension system to that level that no possibility of A W D even in the future
Now what i don,t understand is this that if you modify/delete all the advantages of a legendary system ,then why use it ?
If you replace aluminium to tung steel for cost benefits how is the product premium
It seems to me like oppo/vivo giving bezel free smart phone and charging premium over it by telling, its inspired by apple iphone x
kindly enlighten me

1. To develop an all new platform, it costs lots of money and even more lots of time. Which TATA motors dont have. With D8, they have a donor platform which is fully tested for all the parameters required.

2. Now D8 is not all aluminium chassis. Its a steel chassis with aluminium bits. TATA has replaced those aluminium bits with steel ones, which saves money and help bring down cost.

3. Suspension. I spotted the twist beam in the very first spy pics and posted here about the potential non availability of independent suspension and 4x4. But people hoped for the contrary and are now pissed. Anyway. Twist bean suspension is simple setup and keeps uneven tyre wear in check.

In simple words, TATA is making use of the platform which is available in-house and giving it its own skin and character to protect their premium brand and also carry forward their own design identity. If TATA wanted to, they couldve done a Alturas, but they chose to go for their own identity.

 

[drpath]

1. To develop an all new platform, it costs lots of money and even more lots of time. Which TATA motors dont have. With D8, they have a donor platform which is fully tested for all the parameters required.

2. Now D8 is not all aluminium chassis. Its a steel chassis with aluminium bits. TATA has replaced those aluminium bits with steel ones, which saves money and help bring down cost.

3. Suspension. I spotted the twist beam in the very first spy pics and posted here about the potential non availability of independent suspension and 4x4. But people hoped for the contrary and are now pissed. Anyway. Twist bean suspension is simple setup and keeps uneven tyre wear in check.

In simple words, TATA is making use of the platform which is available in-house and giving it its own skin and character to protect their premium brand and also carry forward their own design identity. If TATA wanted to, they couldve done a Alturas, but they chose to go for their own identity.

thanks for clarification ,and what i could understand by your explanation is that by doing so tata has saved money .So they should give a value for money price to the product rather charging premium for that

Confusion extends
3. THE LOOK /STYLE
No doubt about the looks ,its definitively a looker ,great curves ,slanting roof, different placement of headlamps and drl,s and all the elements give it a nice appearance after amalgamation ,but then this style icon have 2 serious shortcomings
Now i don,t understand the choice of plane/simple and probably a size smaller rims ,it looks like sport shoes on Armani suit , was it so difficult to procure a diamond cut or any other type of alloys ,like of creta sxo pre face lift / compass limited plus with 18 inch size , i bet this very good looking vehicle would have looked awesome
Now the second point is absence of color options ,( only 5 ) ,such a flamboyant /stylish vehicle with very less color options , not even a dual shade /tone treatment ,why tata why ?

 

[navnit013]

thanks for clarification ,and what i could understand by your explanation is that by doing so tata has saved money .So they should give a value for money price to the product rather charging premium for that

Here is a counter argument. Imagine what the Harrier would cost if they had to started from scratch?

The price is not always in correlation with the input cost. Most manufacturers price their product to slot it around what they intend their competition/market space to be and also what they think their customers are ready to pay for. Most people think Creta is overpriced. But the market doesnt think so.

BTW, we dont know how much is the sticker price. Its all speculation as of now.

 

[drpath]

Here is a counter argument. Imagine what the Harrier would cost if they had to started from scratch?

The price is not always in correlation with the input cost. Most manufacturers price their product to slot it around what they intend their competition/market space to be and also what they think their customers are ready to pay for. Most people think Creta is overpriced. But the market doesnt think so.

BTW, we dont know how much is the sticker price. Its all speculation as of now.

thanks may be we are saying the same things with different words ,as i never said any thing about cost in my post ,by that i was trying to say it should be value for money instead of a premier pricing .And tata might consider speculated tweet price of 16-21 lacks as value for money ,a humble man like me (prospective buyer )might consider it grossly overpriced . point is own tech (free no royalty paid) +deletion of alu should decrease the price instead of premium . And as a tata fan i,m afraid that like JLR is putting TATA into losses ,its DNA aka harrier might stumble with premium pricing and another ARIA story might occur

 

[ggnIT]

tata harrier is most confused product ever to be made
-----Also changing the rear suspension system to that level that no possibility of A W D even in the future

No need to get confused, everything is logical.

There is something called as DESIGN and ARCHITECTURE which carries a huge importance in the technical world, while Tata may have changed the metallurgy for cost benefits basic design and architecture should be the same as LR. A better designed platform will always be much more reliable, sturdier and long lasting then the inferior ones.

Not sure where did you read that AWD is not possible in this newly derived platform, Tata guys have just mentioned that it just doesn't makes a case to spend so much on research and testing for something whose demand is less 2% the overall demand of the product, if demand increases they can always spend more on its development and testing.

Harrier is longer than XUV just by 13 mm, and is shorter in height than XUV by 79 mm, while having better ground clearance of 205 mm than 200 mm of XUV, due to which the seating posture would be a bit slanted in harrier more like a sedan (lesser body roll) and road stability too should be better.

Boot space in XUV is just 93 lts (with 3rd row seats up and 475 lts when 3rd row seats are down,source: Mahindra XUV500 Price, Specs, Review, Pics & Mileage in India), and that of harrier is 425 lts, which is impressive considering the higher ground clearance and lower height of Harrier compared to XUV.

Also, width of Harrier is more than any one in the competition so it should be ideally better able to seat 5 people, which would be helpful over long journeys.

Source: Tata Harrier vs rivals: Specification comparison - Times of India

 

[drpath]

No need to get confused, everything is logical.

There is something called as DESIGN and ARCHITECTURE which carries a huge importance in the technical world, while Tata may have changed the metallurgy for cost benefits basic design and architecture should be the same as LR. A better designed platform will always be much more reliable, sturdier and long lasting then the inferior ones.

Not sure where did you read that AWD is not possible in this newly derived platform, Tata guys have just mentioned that it just doesn't makes a case to spend so much on research and testing for something whose demand is less 2% the overall demand of the product, if demand increases they can always spend more on its development and testing.

Harrier is longer than XUV just by 13 mm, and is shorter in height than XUV by 79 mm, while having better ground clearance of 205 mm than 200 mm of XUV, due to which the seating posture would be a bit slanted in harrier more like a sedan (lesser body roll) and road stability too should be better.

Boot space in XUV is just 93 lts (with 3rd row seats up and 475 lts when 3rd row seats are down,source: Mahindra XUV500 Price, Specs, Review, Pics & Mileage in India), and that of harrier is 425 lts, which is impressive considering the higher ground clearance and lower height of Harrier compared to XUV.

Also, width of Harrier is more than any one in the competition so it should be ideally better able to seat 5 people, which would be helpful over long journeys.

Source: Tata Harrier vs rivals: Specification comparison - Times of India

Sir thanks for reply my confusion is not that DESIGN and ARCHITECTURE of harrier is inferior ,my confusion is when metallurgic changes are done for COST cutting how it is a premium product it should be value for money ,and by the way do you want to suggest that other platforms of tata as nexon /safari/hexa are inferior i hope its not like that as they are time tested at least safari,s

Secondly due to absence of independent suspension (modified by tata from d8 ) in rear to torsion beam is the limiting factor for 4 by 4 ,and yes i agree the 4 by 4 have a very low market share so they can stay away from that .BUT this was my confusion that if you are not using the capability of a chassis ,why use it and more over charge premium for that .Its like putting a v 8 engine in a car with speed limit of 100km/hr and still charging premium for that .

Thirdly by your logic capture will be the best buy as its G C is 210 mm its both short and has less height so least body roll and stability would be best and its boot capacity is much more than both xuv and harrier 500 ltr

fourthly for long journeys ask any 5 people and the popular vote will be INNOVA against the harrier and for 6-7 occupants for hexa /xuv can be used but not harrier in any case and that was my confusion ,consider yourself on a journey with 6 -7 people with two options xuv500 vs harrier what will you choose

 

[ggnIT]

Sir thanks for reply my confusion is not that DESIGN and ARCHITECTURE of harrier is inferior ,my confusion is when metallurgic changes are done for COST cutting how it is a premium product it should be value for money ,and by the way do you want to suggest that other platforms of tata as nexon /safari/hexa are inferior i hope its not like that as they are time tested at least safari,s
Secondly due to absence of independent suspension (modified by tata from d8 ) in rear to torsion beam is the limiting factor for 4 by 4 ,and yes i agree the 4 by 4 have a very low market share so they can stay away from that .BUT this was my confusion that if you are not using the capability of a chassis ,why use it and more over charge premium for that .Its like putting a v 8 engine in a car with speed limit of 100km/hr and still charging premium for that .
Thirdly by your logic capture will be the best buy as its G C is 210 mm its both short and has less height so least body roll and stability would be best and its boot capacity is much more than both xuv and harrier 500 ltr
fourthly for long journeys ask any 5 people and the popular vote will be INNOVA against the harrier and for 6-7 occupants for hexa /xuv can be used but not harrier in any case and that was my confusion ,consider yourself on a journey with 6 -7 people with two options xuv500 vs harrier what will you choose

1. Do you want to say only metallurgy would decide the premiumness or cost of any platform? if yes then i would not like to discuss on this further. Just to provide you a bit more information on the platform this platform is kind of hybrid between Monocoque and ladder-frame for added strength, toughness and adaptability called by land rover as Integrated Body Frame (IBF).
2. Its just that the platform is ready for the AWD system but considering the low demand they decided to go for a relatively lesser expensive suspension system, and i don't feel any bad about that until the ride quality and handling isn't compromised.
3. Captur does have all the DNA that duster has which includes excellent ride quality and handling, though the leg room for rear passenger is not that great + boot is just 393 ltrs (not sure why you said it has better boot space than XUV or Harrier). Whether it is a best buy or not depends on a lot many factors and varies by individual to individual, but not for me atleast.
4. Earlier comparison was between Creta, Compass, Harrier and XUV all monocoque , not sure how you brought Innova (body on frame) into the comparison, bringing it would only over complicate the comparison. Third row in XUV is better suited to children only and I in my point had specifically talked about 5 people. If you or for that matter anybody has a requirement for 6-7 seater why to consider Creta, Compass, or Harrier at all? and for long journeys even XUV would not be comfortable for adults in the third row.

It in the end is a buyers decision but obviously Harrier can not be ignored or called as a confused product in my point of view.

Thanks!

 

[drpath]

1. Do you want to say only metallurgy would decide the premiumness or cost of any platform? if yes then i would not like to discuss on this further. Just to provide you a bit more information on the platform this platform is kind of hybrid between Monocoque and ladder-frame for added strength, toughness and adaptability called by land rover as Integrated Body Frame (IBF).
2. Its just that the platform is ready for the AWD system but considering the low demand they decided to go for a relatively lesser expensive suspension system, and i don't feel any bad about that until the ride quality and handling isn't compromised.
3. Captur does have all the DNA that duster has which includes excellent ride quality and handling, though the leg room for rear passenger is not that great + boot is just 393 ltrs (not sure why you said it has better boot space than XUV or Harrier). Whether it is a best buy or not depends on a lot many factors and varies by individual to individual, but not for me atleast.
4. Earlier comparison was between Creta, Compass, Harrier and XUV all monocoque , not sure how you brought Innova (body on frame) into the comparison, bringing it would only over complicate the comparison. Third row in XUV is better suited to children only and I in my point had specifically talked about 5 people. If you or for that matter anybody has a requirement for 6-7 seater why to consider Creta, Compass, or Harrier at all? and for long journeys even XUV would not be comfortable for adults in the third row.

It in the end is a buyers decision but obviously Harrier can not be ignored or called as a confused product in my point of view.

Thanks!

I have no intentions of offending you sir but your relies are not taking away my confusion rather increasing them so point to point
1 metallurgy will not decide the price/premium YES i agree but alu is cheaper than steel NO i disagree .And the confusion is this that d8 or IBF usage for URBAN SUV (as tata them self claim) is not worth it especially on premium price .and i also want your opinion on the cheap/inferior (as your view ) about other chassis of tata .
2.on capture issue its my bad i,m sorry that i assumed that it must be having same capacity of boot as terrano ( duster sibling ) which is 475 ltrs which is much bigger than harrier
3. The innova came into the comparison due to the price tag of harrier (tweet ) and also the comfort of long journey .third row of xuv is good for children only and adult will have a squeeze AGREE but seating 7 person in a 5 seater would be hell. so the choice is not between good and better its between bad and worse
4. lastly it is buyer who decides AGREE ,harrier is a very nice product AGREE ,no one can ignore the product to me it is probably the best vehicle ever made by any INDIAN brand AGREE and so needs to be discussed in every aspect .And i was the first one to book it in my city on oct 15 so as a prospective buyer i need to get my doubts clear before putting my money on to it
thanks

 

[Nairrk]

Tata Harrier Launching This Month, Expected Starting Price Rs. 12.95 Lakh

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Tata Motors is all prepared to launch the long-awaited Harrier premium SUV on January 23 in the domestic market with much anticipation. The five-seater is expected to make a huge impact in the compact SUV space, as it will compete against the likes of top-spec Hyundai Creta and upcoming Nissan Kicks, XUV500 is expected to be priced from Rs. 12.95 lakh to 14.95 lakh.

​

Read:

 

[kasscon]

I have no intentions of offending you sir but your relies are not taking away my confusion rather increasing them so point to point
1 metallurgy will not decide the price/premium YES i agree but alu is cheaper than steel NO i disagree .And the confusion is this that d8 or IBF usage for URBAN SUV (as tata them self claim) is not worth it especially on premium price .and i also want your opinion on the cheap/inferior (as your view ) about other chassis of tata .
2.on capture issue its my bad i,m sorry that i assumed that it must be having same capacity of boot as terrano ( duster sibling ) which is 475 ltrs which is much bigger than harrier
3. The innova came into the comparison due to the price tag of harrier (tweet ) and also the comfort of long journey .third row of xuv is good for children only and adult will have a squeeze AGREE but seating 7 person in a 5 seater would be hell. so the choice is not between good and better its between bad and worse
4. lastly it is buyer who decides AGREE ,harrier is a very nice product AGREE ,no one can ignore the product to me it is probably the best vehicle ever made by any INDIAN brand AGREE and so needs to be discussed in every aspect .And i was the first one to book it in my city on oct 15 so as a prospective buyer i need to get my doubts clear before putting my money on to it
thanks

I have one thought here - evoque and discovery sport so as Harrier from Tata like evoque and disco will come in form of h7x

Taking about premium, what is the price of LR products with same platform done by Aluminum?
Now talking about premium pricing is due to other stuff like infotainment system and dual screen system, esp terrain modes etc. Everything comes at cost.

About single tone alloys, check the premium cars from Audi to BMW or Mercedes I think you will get the answer and btw Tata will introduce the customisation option as well to choose these things from the list

 

[drpath]

I have one thought here - evoque and discovery sport so as Harrier from Tata like evoque and disco will come in form of h7x

Taking about premium, what is the price of LR products with same platform done by Aluminum?
Now talking about premium pricing is due to other stuff like infotainment system and dual screen system, esp terrain modes etc. Everything comes at cost.

About single tone alloys, check the premium cars from Audi to BMW or Mercedes I think you will get the answer and btw Tata will introduce the customisation option as well to choose these things from the list

Thanks for reply
sir the pricing difference between LR products and tata should be compared as difference between Audi and V W both from same parent ,so their is no point in charging premium esp after removing the pricier bits .On the lighter side give harrier the name of urban discovery with JLR brand and i.ll be the first one to buy it even at 30 lack on road (also consider it a steal )
Yes i agree that all big three have single tone alloy ,but what i was trying to say that a stylish product as harrier definitely looks better with diamond cut alloys (as multiple rendering on net and H5X concept suggest ) and most reviewer felt that 18 inched rim would have suited it more (disco sport 18 is a direct fit )
yes i do agree the customization options would be available ( even if not by tata any one can get them done himself ) but the extra cost on an already premium priced (my opinion ) is not justified thanks

 

[vikyjoshi]

Thanks for reply
sir the pricing difference between LR products and tata should be compared as difference between Audi and V W both from same parent ,so their is no point in charging premium esp after removing the pricier bits .On the lighter side give harrier the name of urban discovery with JLR brand and i.ll be the first one to buy it even at 30 lack on road (also consider it a steal )
Yes i agree that all big three have single tone alloy ,but what i was trying to say that a stylish product as harrier definitely looks better with diamond cut alloys (as multiple rendering on net and H5X concept suggest ) and most reviewer felt that 18 inched rim would have suited it more (disco sport 18 is a direct fit )
yes i do agree the customization options would be available ( even if not by tata any one can get them done himself ) but the extra cost on an already premium priced (my opinion ) is not justified thanks

There are still pricier bits in Harrier,
the visteon ice, is available in the leagues of Mercs,
the harman systems not available in any of the so called mass premium cars in India.
The JLR front suspension taken up as it is.
rear suspension worked upon by lotus engineering
All the safety tech used does cost money
Nappa seat covers

Now show me a car in India which has the above basic features and costing under 20L OTR

With regards to 18 inches whats the price of tires with 18 inch? AFAIK each tyre costs 16K changing 4 tyres will set you back by 60K. People will again crib on this aspect. 16 inches are tried and tested and various options available for the consumer to choose from. Again Discovery is fit on bolt, so for people who can invest can directly purchase the discovery wheels and put it.

Had it been branded JLR urban discovery, you would not get this at 30L but around 50L on road.