So Called ‘Certified’ Used Cars – Myths & Facts Exposed

[alexddas]

Re: So Called ‘Certified’ Used Cars – Myths & Facts Exposed

Meaning of the word "ASSESS"
To determine the value, significance, or extent of

My exact line was - "I am still working with a certified cars outlet, till date I have never seen, heard of any tool that can directly assess the originality of the odometer. I am also looking for some answers ".

You have misunderstood the meaning of the word or the whole sentence. All that I wanted to say is - I have never seen or heard of a tool/instrument that can check & identify/prove/determine that a meter reading is geniune or tampered. I too know very well that meter tampering devices have existed for a long long time from now.

May be you know more than me, in such a case you can value to the thread by posting more info. This thread is mainly focused for newbie's who are planning to buy used cars, car enthusiasts might already know most of the things that I have mentioned.

Brother,as i mentioned to you earlier,as you are new to the forum,these things are posted and discussed in many similar threads,
You kindly search for those threads and please go through that and surprise us with information as you promised at the beginning of the thread.

 

[Lucas]

You have provided some very well compiled information. Keep them flowing bro. Cheers!!

 

[Lewisavinash]

I actually went to buy a So called "certified car" when i saw four or five of them decided to go for Old swift Zdi, which eventally got New swift Zdi, im now sure i made the right decesion..! thanks for the valuable info on "behalf of all members"

 

[nozzlering]

Very informative thread. Eye opener for most of us.

 

[VivekRj.Dieselhead]

Re: So Called ‘Certified’ Used Cars – Myths & Facts Exposed

Meaning of the word "ASSESS"
To determine the value, significance, or extent of

My exact line was - "I am still working with a certified cars outlet, till date I have never seen, heard of any tool that can directly assess the originality of the odometer. I am also looking for some answers ".

You have misunderstood the meaning of the word or the whole sentence. All that I wanted to say is - I have never seen of a tool/instrument that can check & identify/prove/determine that a meter reading is geniune or tampered. I too know very well that meter tampering devices have existed for a long long time from now.

May be you know more than me, in such a case you can value to the thread by posting more info. This thread is mainly focused for newbie's who are planning to buy used cars, car enthusiasts might already know most of the things that I have mentioned.

Welcome to the group buddy,

I liked the way you described everything openly here.

I knew most of the things about these practices but never knew about bank tie-up and all.

Keep the info flowing right here on this thread.

And please don't mind if some wannabe Moderator is trying to moderate your actions here.

My advise for you is to simply ignore him.

If the info you posted here doesn't belong here,

Then I am sure Vibhor is gonna point it out and moderate it.

 

[chevrolet]

Few years back visited mahindra first choice, the quotes they gave where all 50k to 1 lac higher than market buying price for a used car. They said this is because of their warranty etc etc.
Once a family friend bought a used i10 from a local dealer, after a month the crankshaft failed, the dealer agreed to resell the car to another customer with a loss of 10-20 k for the present owner . Some minor repair was done to make the crankshaft function for a few months but the customer who bought it is sure to suffer.
A month ago my friend bought a punto by exchanging his old fiat uno pre 2007 model for 1.20 lac.. no one is going to buy back this uno for 1.20 lac.how is the cost recovered by asc.

To your list pls add 2010 model spark took delivery in 2011 with 4k in odo was 1.85k which bought for nearly 4l.

Once I just wanna check with TATA guys that was the figure.

Worst part is, the Chevy dealer him self [where I took the car] offering the same price. I know spark might not have resale value but never thought it will be so bad.

Mine is 2010 odo 40k ... taxi drivers,car mechanics, friends, relatives ask me whether the car is for sale and if so in future they want me to call them.They think they can buy this car for 1 lac or below from me.This car is cheap to maintain it is better to keep this than sell for this price.

 

[generalmax]

In used car business,the dealers can make money only by keeping people in the dark.Accept this.There is no service offer,by which the used car dealer can make money later on.I had seen this happening.When you go to sell your car they will give quote to you ridiculous prices and when you go to buy the same vehicle they will give you sky high prices,at least 50K to 80 K. When a customer who is not learned about the back end games,he will be squeezed out.One thing we can really say that the used market cars (warranty) is a scam.To prove this,lets check the scenario,where they don't buy car with multiple owners.If the used cars are going through the strict checks what they are saying,then there must be no issue with number of owners.So instead of doing that they cut down on the procuring cost.Current crop of cars will not have any issue with number of owners.In a family,5 people use one car,is it a better car than a vehicle which is genuinely owned by 3 owners? A prospective owner also will not know if the car was driven by a driver or owner himself.Other than major accidents,I am still at a loss,why the cars are sourced at so less price and sold for so high price. The worst case here is Truevalue from Maruti ,which is not true to any value.

 

[Akash1886]

Friends,

Used car business is nothing but a gimmick that benefits just the used car dealers. I'll like to share my experience with True Value dealer of Maruti Suzuki here in Noida. I intended to sell off my Esteem to them and buy a CIAZ about 2-2.5 months ago. Their person came to evaluate it and quoted me 50K. Upon this quote I refused and immediately got my car evaluated at a scrap dealer. To my utter shock, the metal scrap according to him as on that date was around 92K which means the True Value dealer under-quoted by approx 40K+ to me. To further this, my uncle told, the dealer's quote is final and he can't do anything.

Used car dealers across India work on principle of minimum accountability to the next owner. For them primary aspect is earning profit and secondary is the customer satisfaction. I also would like to inform here, do not be fooled by even premium car brands which deal in used cars. Until the time the deal is sealed, they will even bend backwards to serve you but once the deal is sealed, so if the fate of the new owner sealed too. Seldom it happens that a used car turns out to be profitable and reliable buy for the new owner.

Another thing which I have witnessed is, any used car that's taken to an ASC, is in all likely hood lead to a heavy expense. See, if we think practically, we are about 2 Lac informed people to whom probably neither ASC nor Dealer can fool but there are more than 2 Lac people who fall prey to the dubious practices of these dealers and the dealer makes merry out of that.

Also a personal perception that I have is, a used car should always be the last resort. I can wait for the finances to materialize and buy a new car with full peace of mind rather than buying a relatively cheap used car and end up spending more than the Emi for a new car. Buying a used car is a gamble and specially in India, at any given opportunity these type of dealers/ventures are there to take the buyer for a ride. Go to Delhi and in broad daylight, one can get robbed by these dealers. They'll do sweet talking and rip you off politely.

PS: I do wish to add some more points with regards to e-portals dealing in used cars, till now, in comparison to physical used car dealers these virtual/e-portals selling the used cars are safer bet. Reason being, in these e-portals, the seller and buyer can communicate with each other without any middle man involved. In all probability, if a person buys a used car from e-portals then he/she is less exposed and safe with regards to unethical practices of used car dealers.

Regards

Akash

 

[incarnation]

@ Akash I differ with you here on this pericular aspect. End of the day used car sale is a business and in every business the person who establishes a business looks for profit which is common sense. he/ They cannot serve customers at the point where He/They loose profit. yes i do agree True Values by companies are Rip offs. But not always.

A car Like Fiat Palio in a used car market would not fetch you even 40K whereas the same car will fetch you 70k if you go for True Value exchanges. where you get 10,000 cash discount and 20,000 exchange bonus. so this kind of deal is worth it.

on the other hand when a person like me who wants to own a second hand car, if i go to buy that same car the dealer should and will quote somewhere near 85,000 why??? he has already invested 60k in it then the interest for that amount as well as the days of labour to get that car in resaleable condition the company will incur a minimal of 2-3k plus labour.and the no. of days it will spend in the yard the rent for that perticular place etc. a security to guard the entire yard. if you calculate it. its just 10-15 percent margin business.

and regarding the case of your esteem
The dealer has to sell it as a whole car. which brings the resale value of the car down why?? coz esteem is a Great car no doubt about that, however in the resale market it doesnt fetch any value. only a few enthusiasts know what a nicely tuned esteem is capable of.
The Scrap dealer on the other hand can sell your car in pieces the body shell alone can fetch him the amount the dealer pays for your entire car. then the engine the transmission. and other parts

for that fact even my car sierra if i go in the market to sell it i would merely get a lac out of it whereas if i scrap it i might get a good value for it.

same is the case with the josh machine the ford ikon which doesnt fetch you even 80k for models as recent as 2005 whereas if you sell it in parts u can easily make 1.5 lac out of it.

in this case the scrap dealer is getting all the benifit.

the reason i say this is i have been into this business and know in and out of it.

please forgive me if any of my statements have hurt you . that is never ever my intention.

 

[Akash1886]

Re: So Called ‘Certified’ Used Cars – Myths & Facts Exposed

@ Akash I differ with you here on this pericular aspect. End of the day used car sale is a business and in every business the person who establishes a business looks for profit which is common sense. he/ They cannot serve customers at the point where He/They loose profit. yes i do agree True Values by companies are Rip offs. But not always.

Yaar Nitin, how can my buddies here can ever hurt me. The beauty of any discussion is to put your views and listen to others too. My concern here is that, I can sell my car to these True Value and other used car dealers provided they deal in "No Profit-No Loss" manner. Apart from it, had the True Value dealer given me quote of 85-90K for Esteem, I would have still been happy with it. But what he quoted to me was utterly unacceptable. I know, Esteem, won't fetch me more than 90-95K no matter how well maintained it may be because it has been phased out but that does not mean the dealers can take advantage of it and quote ridiculous prices which lead to loss for seller and profit to only them. I am not in favor of the fact that the profit of selling a used car should only go to used car dealers.

Regards

Akash

 

[incarnation]

End of the day bro its business the rep needs to show some profit to the organisation he is working otherwise he is no longer needed there. and no business will ever happen without profit. So No profit no loss is like asking for Amrith In a TODDY Shop.
i have been a dealer for used cars and a Evaluater of used cars for different brands. Like Hyundai, TATA , Chevy and TOYOTA.
lets say you are in a business and you invest X amount of money im sure as a businessman you will expect a a profit margin of atleast 10%+ The principle amount. now think your business is going higher and you employ 2-3 employees your need for profit has gone higher.

but having said all that i have always owned used cars only that too without financing it by anyone. so i find it good to go for a used car with the money you have in hand than going for a higher version car where i will have to take loan. that means im unnecessarily putting a burden on my head.

I go for a new car say worth 8 lacs I put in an amount of 2 lacs rest 6 lacs financed by bank at the rate of 14% reducing which works out roughly to be 11.5-12% flat. so at the end of the 5 years term i would have paid 2lacs+ 6 lacs+3.6 lacs intrest =11.6 lacs for the car .

lets say in this 5 years i have run about a 70k kms and lets exclude the maintenance and fuel cost . The car in the used market would fetch me 2.5-3 lacs Depending upon your geographical conditions. ( I mean to say depending upon the States you live in as the taxes differ from sate to state.) so in this 5 years i as a owner of a new car have lost 3.6 on intrest and 5 lacs due to the age of the car so all i have lost more than the value of the car in itself.


Now lets come to a scenario where i have bought the same above mentioned car after 5 years which is a used car now for 3lacs without loan. I keep this car for another 3 years and now the odometer reads 70k + 40K ( which is my running in these 3 years). and i sell the car after 3 years for 1.5 lacs. what have i lost 150000/40000=3.75 Rs per kilometer which is acceptable. The reason i mentioned this calculation is the earlier posts suggest that going for a new car is better than going for a used car.

but yes a certified car will also not guaranteee you anything more than if you purchase the same car through the owner provided you know how to check the used cars and the condition of the used car when you buy it.

 

[Akash1886]

Re: So Called ‘Certified’ Used Cars – Myths & Facts Exposed

End of the day bro its business and no business will ever happen without profit. lets say you are in a business and you invest X amount of money im sure as a businessman you will expect a a profit margin of atleast 10%+ The principle amount.

Nitin I accept the logic of 10% profit in a business but the experience I had was terrible. That evaluator was approx earning 50% profit from me. Had he given the quote of 85-90 K (as I said above) to me I would have sold my car to him and later on if he would sell it further to someone for say 1 L (being 10% margin of 90 K i.e +9 K) then too I would have been OK as each one tries to earn profit. However, these used car dealers like True Value etc are clever and greedy. They just think of their profit always. A successful deal/business is one in which both parties leave with a happy face. Apart from that, just imagine, the way these used car dealers are operating and under-quoting to sellers, how much they must be earning as profit per car? Casually my uncle told me couple of days back that Maruti True Value has sold many vehicles in June-2015 and is likely on 2nd or 3rd position in vehicle sales of June. Now imagine the amount of profit they must have earned on every sale.

Apart from this, I'll share a example, my friend asked a Mahindra dealer to exchange his Dzire with an XUV-500 Face-Lift recently so Mahindra used car dealer provided him a quote of 1.85 L and some 15 thousand more as bonus so total 2 Lacs where as the same car when he placed on a e-portal fetched him 2.35 Lac which mean he earned profit of 15% over the dealer's quote. So, the way these dealers aim for one sided benefit, that's something which is not acceptable to me.

Adding reply to @Chevrolet's Post No. #36 to avoid repeat post!

A month ago my friend bought a punto by exchanging his old fiat uno pre 2007 model for 1.20 lac.. no one is going to buy back this uno for 1.20 lac.how is the cost recovered by asc.

In case a phased out/obsolete car is exchanged with a used car dealer then as what I have seen so far is that either of following things happen most certainly i.e

* Maybe any of their personnel like someone in the body shop shall buy it for his own use.

* It could be used as a recovery car

* Might end up in scrap as they can't show inventory for long.

Regards

Akash

 

[chevrolet]

Can someone answer post no 36 about the fiat uno.

 

[incarnation]

it would be sold in parts. to parts dealers. or as akash said some one who wants to buy it but a lesser price than it was procured for. also you have forgottten to mention which varient of PUNTO was it the petrol or diesel. Im sure it would be a petrol not a diesel also your friend could have got something called a loyalty bonus as he was a fiat cutomer and has decided to remain so. that would be somewhere around 15-20k

if its petrol it carries 30-40k cash discounts as its slow moving compared to diesels. and if its a diesel i wonder how did they recover their investment.

 

[Vista_addict]

Re: So Called ‘Certified’ Used Cars – Myths & Facts Exposed

I go for a new car say worth 8 lacs I put in an amount of 2 lacs rest 6 lacs financed by bank at the rate of 14% reducing which works out roughly to be 11.5-12% flat. so at the end of the 5 years term i would have paid 2lacs+ 6 lacs+3.6 lacs interest =11.6 lacs for the car .

lets say in this 5 years i have run about a 70k kms and lets exclude the maintenance and fuel cost . The car in the used market would fetch me 2.5-3 lacs Depending upon your geographical conditions. ( I mean to say depending upon the States you live in as the taxes differ from sate to state.) so in this 5 years i as a owner of a new car have lost 3.6 on interest and 5 lacs due to the age of the car so all i have lost more than the value of the car in itself.


Now lets come to a scenario where i have bought the same above mentioned car after 5 years which is a used car now for 3lacs without loan. I keep this car for another 3 years and now the odometer reads 70k + 40K ( which is my running in these 3 years). and i sell the car after 3 years for 1.5 lacs. what have i lost 150000/40000=3.75 Rs per kilometer which is acceptable. The reason i mentioned this calculation is the earlier posts suggest that going for a new car is better than going for a used car.

but yes a certified car will also not guaranteee you anything more than if you purchase the same car through the owner provided you know how to check the used cars and the condition of the used car when you buy it.

You are painting a rosy picture to justify used car purchase (No offense intended and purely my point of view is expressed).
- How about that manufacturer warranty on mechanical parts?
- How about maintenance cost for a used car (Pointing that new car does not come with strings attached)
- How about depleted fuel efficiency of the car?
- How about no zero dep insurance on your used car?

Also, new car interest comes around 10.xx% now-a-days and not 14% DB i.e. around 7-8% flat

We will need to consider buying as a whole package before assessment.

Let consider a use-case, i remember a friend who shelled out 2L for mechanical failure and sourcing it from authorized dealer to get that engine fixed (It was a 7 years old machine and bound to wear-tear after all they are machines) but with a new car (fairly newer one) it is covered by the warranty

In my opinion, it is quite tough for an end customer to assess the real value of the old/used car in the market (Definitely not hassle free)