Maruti 800 With DIY Performance Air filter


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This mod will create more problems than anything else. Further you're reducing the surface area significantly at the filtration point which is the bottleneck in an air inlet.

What about cleaning and durability etc?
 
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Creative! But I can spot two problems:

1. It is sucking in hot air from the engine bay.
2. It will let in a LOT of particulates, damaging your engine.
 
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Personally I Like Intake systems with wider outlet and smaller inlet and thats what I'm going to do in my next intake upgrade.

But here the diameter reduction is all of sudden to a much lesser diameter so this will make a restrictive air flow(Restriction only in the size reduction regions). Try to make a gradual reduction in pipe diameter.

Position of MAF is also not in the right place I think. It should is relocated to the smaller pipe, because here the maximum flow velocity will be in the smaller diameter pipe.

Anyways, good attempt.
Hows the performance, hope anyhow it will perform better than the stock intake setup.

Make sure your DIY filter will do the job perfect.
 
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Thread Starter #5
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Personally I Like Intake systems with wider outlet and smaller inlet and thats what I'm going to do in my next intake upgrade.

But here the diameter reduction is all of sudden to a much lesser diameter so this will make a restrictive air flow(Restriction only in the size reduction regions). Try to make a gradual reduction in pipe diameter.

Position of MAF is also not in the right place I think. It should is relocated to the smaller pipe, because here the maximum flow velocity will be in the smaller diameter pipe.

Anyways, good attempt.
Hows the performance, hope anyhow it will perform better than the stock intake setup.

Make sure your DIY filter will do the job perfect.
Kichu Actually the Sensor is not a MAF it is an inlet air temperature sensor and it can be located any where in the inlet manifold. and i notice a slight increase in the acceleration...

Creative! But I can spot two problems:

1. It is sucking in hot air from the engine bay.
2. It will let in a LOT of particulates, damaging your engine.
you are right that it is sucking a lot of hot air. but it wont let any dust particles into the inlet manifold
 
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you are right that it is sucking a lot of hot air. but it wont let any dust particles into the inlet manifold
An engine's output is highly dependent on the intake air temperature, if it's sucking in hot air it might actually reduce performance!

The suction effect when the engine operates will be sufficient to pull through minute particulates, which are very difficult to see. This is why a standard air filter has a 'folded' pattern, to allow for a thick, layered gauze or paper material while the surface area is still sufficient to be non-restrictive.
 
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Kichu Actually the Sensor is not a MAF it is an inlet air temperature sensor and it can be located any where in the inlet manifold. and i notice a slight increase in the acceleration...
Oops my mistake, I thought is as MAF sensor. Thanks for the clarification.[:D]


Benefits of Warm air intake.

Reducing the density of the intake air by heating it effectively reduces the power of the engine at a given throttle opening (relative to the same engine with a CAI). To do the same work as the CAI-equipped engine, the throttle of the WAI engine must be opened wider at a given RPM. This increases engine efficiency by reducing throttling or pumping losses:

"The air is less dense, so you get less horsepower at the same throttle opening, thus, you have to open the throttle wider to let in more air and get the horsepower that you need. That increases the efficiency because one of the primary causes of the well-known part load inefficiency of gasoline engines is the throttle loss."
 
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Oops my mistake, I thought is as MAF sensor. Thanks for the clarification.[:D]


Benefits of Warm air intake.

Reducing the density of the intake air by heating it effectively reduces the power of the engine at a given throttle opening (relative to the same engine with a CAI). To do the same work as the CAI-equipped engine, the throttle of the WAI engine must be opened wider at a given RPM. This increases engine efficiency by reducing throttling or pumping losses:

"The air is less dense, so you get less horsepower at the same throttle opening, thus, you have to open the throttle wider to let in more air and get the horsepower that you need. That increases the efficiency because one of the primary causes of the well-known part load inefficiency of gasoline engines is the throttle loss."
Actually my plan was placing the filter some where near to the front grill but do to the complication of bending the pvc on a limited space make me drop the plan. I have other plan to make the air denser/cold which is done buy using a peltier device [;)] and i hope it works..

An engine's output is highly dependent on the intake air temperature, if it's sucking in hot air it might actually reduce performance!

The suction effect when the engine operates will be sufficient to pull through minute particulates, which are very difficult to see. This is why a standard air filter has a 'folded' pattern, to allow for a thick, layered gauze or paper material while the surface area is still sufficient to be non-restrictive.
The changes are temporary just for the curiosity to hear the sound Performance air filter and soon i will upgrade to F8D engine For better modifications.
 
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Oops my mistake, I thought is as MAF sensor. Thanks for the clarification.[:D]


Benefits of Warm air intake.

Reducing the density of the intake air by heating it effectively reduces the power of the engine at a given throttle opening (relative to the same engine with a CAI). To do the same work as the CAI-equipped engine, the throttle of the WAI engine must be opened wider at a given RPM. This increases engine efficiency by reducing throttling or pumping losses:

"The air is less dense, so you get less horsepower at the same throttle opening, thus, you have to open the throttle wider to let in more air and get the horsepower that you need. That increases the efficiency because one of the primary causes of the well-known part load inefficiency of gasoline engines is the throttle loss."
Sorry to be blunt, but that is the most convoluted and misinformed statement ever! How can it be possible for an engine to be more efficient at a lower compression ratio?

To elaborate: Warm air is less dense than cold air. When this less dense air is volumetrically injected into the combustion chamber, it means that there is less Oxygen available for the combustion of the fuel. This leads to a less complete combustion for a given amount of fuel (ie. a given throttle position), reducing not only the output of the engine, but the fuel efficiency as well! To put this into perspective, an average petrol engine uses a compression ratio of 10:1 (10 units of air to 1 unit of fuel).

This is why manufacturers always place their air intakes towards the front of the engine bay, to ensure that the coldest possible air is being used.

I'm sorry bro, but this is nothing that you can argue with, it is an undisputable fact of the Internal Combustion engine.
 
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Actually my plan was placing the filter some where near to the front grill but do to the complication of bending the pvc on a limited space make me drop the plan. I have other plan to make the air denser/cold which is done buy using a peltier device [;)] and i hope it works..
Ya bending up a PVC is not a big task, but it will risk in its quality isn't it.
I'm also thinking to system a CAI with Aluminum or SS pipes. Try your best to avoid 90 degree bends so as to increase the flow velocity. [:)]
 
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To put this into perspective, an average petrol engine uses a compression ratio of 10:1 (10 units of air to 1 unit of fuel).
OH MY GOD [frustration] 10:1 compression you understood it as 10 units of air to 1 unit of fuel.[surprise]
Biggest joke of century, I never expected this from you Viru.
Listen baby I will explain it to you.
An engine's compression ratio is the ratio of volume in the cylinder when the piston is at the top of its stroke (top dead centre, or TDC) to the volume when the piston's at the bottom of its stroke (bottom dead centre or BDC). In other words, it's the ratio of compressed to uncompressed volume, or how tightly the incoming fuel/air mix is squeezed into the combustion chamber before it's ignited. The more it's squeezed, the more efficiently it burns and the more power is made.
According to the gasoline stoichiometry, your 10 units of air to 1 unit of fuel is said to be RICH. This is not what the manufacture mean my 10:1 compression.
You are very much confused about AFR ratio and COMPRESSION ratio. Feel free to ask the doubts if you had any after reading more about it.

"I'm sorry bro, but this is nothing that you can argue with, it is an undisputable fact of the Internal Combustion engine."
LOL, no need to be sorry Brother.
Viru, My aim is not to argue in the forums, my aim is to share knowledge either to give or take(Definitely to take more than giving[;)])
I request you to read about IC engines without considering the present FACTS which you have already stored in your memory.


Now about Warm air intake. I'm 99.9% sure you are not going to understand what I saying. But still giving a try. :D

First of all I'm not an expert in automobiles. So What all I said in my previous post about WAI is the things I got to know from various sites and people(But definitely not from a single source) and still I'm not saying its 100% TRUE.

I believe the benefits that we are going to get from this CAI or WAI is highly depends upon the particular engine we are going to use. So we cant say every vehicle will show BEST results with a CAI upgrade.
Even if I had experiences of both CAI and WAI in the same car, I cant generalize CAI is more better than WAI or vice versa.

In my previous post I didn't say WAI "increases BHP" so please cool down. What all I said is it reduces "pumping losses"

"To elaborate: Warm air is less dense than cold air. When this less dense air is volumetrically injected into the combustion chamber, it means that there is less Oxygen available for the combustion of the fuel. This leads to a less complete combustion for a given amount of fuel (ie. a given throttle position)"
-Listen.
THere is a sensor called O2 SENSOR which is placed after the exhaust port of the engine, this will helps the ECU(the complicated brain ;)) to correct the fueling there by reducing the combustion issue.
Or else we must have to say a CAI which results in more denser air will lead to LEAN condition isn't it? Why its not, because that is the duty of a O2 sensor.

When CAI is installed. we get more denser air at a given throttle. So what actually happening is more fuel is also fed in to the cylinder so you get more BHP than with a WAI at the same Throttle position.
So when you need same amount bhp with a WAI you need to apply "bit more throttle to get even more air". HEre comes the benefits of a WAI. because this wide throttle reduces "pumping losses"

The main thing for your doubts on my previous post is mostly because you must have dont know what is meant by "pumping loss".
Well, I will explain it to you.
Spark Ignition engine is throttled(ie, the amount of air getting into the engine is directly depends upon the throttle we apply) which creates a vacuum. Creating a vacuum takes power and this is referred to as "pumping loss".
To illustrate,
EXAMPLE 1: take a bicycle pump and pump it rapidly. Your arm will tire fairly quickly from pulling against the slight vacuum that's created as you pull the plunger out(pulling the plunger for sucking up the air). Remove the end of the pump and you could do it for forever, because by taking it off the vacuum got reduced.
EXAMPLE 2: Similarly Take a syringe and try pulling its plunger in and out with and without its needle . You can understand that when the needle is fixed to it, the air inlet passage gets smaller and you will need to apply more power to pull than when it is without its needle.
Thats why experts say, WAI helps in increasing the Mileage because of lesser pumping loss.


PLEASE NOTE: I dont think I can give an even more better explanation. but still I'm responsible for what I said, so if you have any doubt regarding to what I said. Then please QUOTES THOSE LINES specifically, then I will explain it for you :)
 
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Kichu you are damn good at automotive field. The lambda/O2 sensor is located not on the exhaust port but on the exhaust manifold
 
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Kichu you are damn good at automotive field. The lambda/O2 sensor is located not on the exhaust port but on the exhaust manifold
Thank you Spellbound for you kind words. [:)]
No, I did't say it is "on the exhaust port" what I said is, it is "after the exhaust port"
Anyways the correct usage is "on the exhaust manifold" itself. Thanks for making it clear :)
 
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Thank you Spellbound for you kind words. [:)]
No, I did't say it is "on the exhaust port" what I said is, it is "after the exhaust port"
Anyways the correct usage is "on the exhaust manifold" itself. Thanks for making it clear :)
sorry it was my mistake [;)]
 
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OH MY GOD [10:1 compression you understood it as 10 units of air to 1 unit of fuel.
Biggest joke of century, I never expected this from you Viru.
Listen baby I will explain it to you.
An engine's compression ratio is the ratio of volume in the cylinder when the piston is at the top of its stroke (top dead centre, or TDC) to the volume when the piston's at the bottom of its stroke (bottom dead centre or BDC). In other words, it's the ratio of compressed to uncompressed volume, or how tightly the incoming fuel/air mix is squeezed into the combustion chamber before it's ignited. The more it's squeezed, the more efficiently it burns and the more power is made.
According to the gasoline stoichiometry, your 10 units of air to 1 unit of fuel is said to be RICH. This is not what the manufacture mean my 10:1 compression.
You are very much confused about AFR ratio and COMPRESSION ratio. Feel free to ask the doubts if you had any after reading more about it.

"I'm sorry bro, but this is nothing that you can argue with, it is an undisputable fact of the Internal Combustion engine."
LOL, no need to be sorry Brother.
Viru, My aim is not to argue in the forums, my aim is to share knowledge either to give or take(Definitely to take more than giving[;)])
I request you to read about IC engines without considering the present FACTS which you have already stored in your memory.


Now about Warm air intake. I'm 99.9% sure you are not going to understand what I saying. But still giving a try. :D

First of all I'm not an expert in automobiles. So What all I said in my previous post about WAI is the things I got to know from various sites and people(But definitely not from a single source) and still I'm not saying its 100% TRUE.

I believe the benefits that we are going to get from this CAI or WAI is highly depends upon the particular engine we are going to use. So we cant say every vehicle will show BEST results with a CAI upgrade.
Even if I had experiences of both CAI and WAI in the same car, I cant generalize CAI is more better than WAI or vice versa.

In my previous post I didn't say WAI "increases BHP" so please cool down. What all I said is it reduces "pumping losses"

"To elaborate: Warm air is less dense than cold air. When this less dense air is volumetrically injected into the combustion chamber, it means that there is less Oxygen available for the combustion of the fuel. This leads to a less complete combustion for a given amount of fuel (ie. a given throttle position)"
-Listen.
THere is a sensor called O2 SENSOR which is placed after the exhaust port of the engine, this will helps the ECU(the complicated brain ;)) to correct the fueling there by reducing the combustion issue.
Or else we must have to say a CAI which results in more denser air will lead to LEAN condition isn't it? Why its not, because that is the duty of a O2 sensor.

When CAI is installed. we get more denser air at a given throttle. So what actually happening is more fuel is also fed in to the cylinder so you get more BHP than with a WAI at the same Throttle position.
So when you need same amount bhp with a WAI you need to apply "bit more throttle to get even more air". HEre comes the benefits of a WAI. because this wide throttle reduces "pumping losses"

The main thing for your doubts on my previous post is mostly because you must have dont know what is meant by "pumping loss".
Well, I will explain it to you.
Spark Ignition engine is throttled(ie, the amount of air getting into the engine is directly depends upon the throttle we apply) which creates a vacuum. Creating a vacuum takes power and this is referred to as "pumping loss".
To illustrate,
EXAMPLE 1: take a bicycle pump and pump it rapidly. Your arm will tire fairly quickly from pulling against the slight vacuum that's created as you pull the plunger out(pulling the plunger for sucking up the air). Remove the end of the pump and you could do it for forever, because by taking it off the vacuum got reduced.
EXAMPLE 2: Similarly Take a syringe and try pulling its plunger in and out with and without its needle . You can understand that when the needle is fixed to it, the air inlet passage gets smaller and you will need to apply more power to pull than when it is without its needle.
Thats why experts say, WAI helps in increasing the Mileage because of lesser pumping loss.


PLEASE NOTE: I dont think I can give an even more better explanation. but still I'm responsible for what I said, so if you have any doubt regarding to what I said. Then please QUOTES THOSE LINES specifically, then I will explain it for you :)
I meant combustion ratio, I was half asleep so don't judge me. But anyways, if we ignore my embarassing faux pas, the remainder of my statement is still correct! [;)]

Lean or Rich mixtures are both RELATIVE terms, depending on what the engine was designed to run on. "Lean" is when there is less fuel and more air than prescribed and Rich is vice versa.

First, an engine is typically most efficient near the point of maximum torque output.

Second, although the MAF and lamda sensors allow the engine to make adjustments to the air:fuel ratio for optimum combustion, in the real world it cannot (due to technical limitations) infinitely adjust both values, as the ECU's mapping is such that it forces the engine to use non-optimal conditions in certain situations, such as enrichment of the fuel/air mix to prevent stalling.

That's not how a CAI benefits a typical car. A CAI operates under the assumption that an air flow restriction is limiting the engine's ability to perform by not being able to fully exploit the fuel being inserted in the combustion chamber. As stated above, this is due to technical limitations of ECU sensors. As technology improves, the use of a CAI is becoming more show and less go. Would also like to mention that most cars come as stock with what can be considered as a cold air intake.

Let me explain your own theory to you a bit better, so you can see where you are mistaken: Pumping losses refers to the energy spent by an intake system (Whether fuel or air) to inject a specified quantity of fuel and air into the combustion chamber. When you are running with a WAI, to get the same amount of Oxygen, a much stronger vaccum will be required (simply because a larger volume of air is needed), which causes unnecessary wastage of energy. As compared to a denser charge of air, which would require a lower volume to be inserted.

It is not unusual for people to be mislead, so let me clarify one more thing. In a fuel injected engine, the size of the open valve port remains unchanged, the only changing factor being the time for which the valve remains open. The throttle opening being wider is a different thing altogether.

Would just like to add that in university you may be taught about the warm-intake theory, and will be shown that it is nothing but a theory.
 
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