Mahindra Marazzo: New MUV By Mahindra

ankathil.arjun · Sep 7, 2018

Fair question, but I do not understand the need for having a 4WD option just because its a body on frame vehicle or a Mahindra. TUV300 is not offered with a 4WD either, though it is being sold as an SUV.
The Marazzo on the other hand is marketed as a MUV unlike the Hexa which was marketed as a crossover. When the vehicle does not claim to be a SUV, why does Mahindra need to burden it with a 4WD.
Mahindra has taken special care, to keep this vehicle comfortable, and not giving a RWD is one of the factors for it. Making it RWD or 4WD would lead to the transmission hump, which would have leg room issues for the last row.
From what I see, the Marazzo is made keeping comfort in mind. It is not an off roader, it is not an SUV. It is designed to carry 7 people in comfort. In order to achieve this, they have increased the foot print, and also done away with RWD.
The engine is kept at 1.5lts only, though Mahindra has much bigger engines, in order to keep the fuel efficiency and emissions at the minimum. These go to show the vehicle is made as a comfortable people mover.
If Mahindra does give a 4WD option on this, you would see a lot of people taking this off road and say that it is not capable in off-roading. Why would Mahindra want to taint their reputation by giving a wrong message to people.

gearhead2 · Sep 7, 2018

ankathil.arjun said:

Hello Ankathil,
Your above post is interesting since the subject (drive-train configuration - RWD/FWD/AWD/4WD) is one I find fascinating. And my thread on the topic (FWD vs AWD vs RWD, dated 13/12/'16 in the Technical Zone) was started in the hope of igniting a debate on the subject. Unfortunately the thread petered off after a couple of replies [:D]

!

And so to the Marazzo. M&M have unquestionably done a good job - of climbing on to the gravy-train of the wannabe MUVs, all with nice long wheel bases (~ 2680 mm +-) and 7/8 seats.
And thus M&M too have joined the rest by taking the bean-counter's solution rather than the engineer's. So long as the prospective owners stick to level tarmac they should face no difficulties.
But once you start encountering inclines (1:4 or steeper) with a fully laden vehicle, it becomes a different story - as on the beautiful roads of Uttaranchal. Where inclines of 1:3 combined with hair-pin bends and kaccha/gravel surfaces abound. I have mentioned earlier that I have come across FWD sedans in difficulties in such circumstances. The Innova, Xylo and other RWDers (and of course AWDers) did not face this problem.
Apart from anything else, the RWD set-up imparts near bullet proof robustness, durability & core reliability to the vehicle. As the number of Boleros, Omnis, Eecos on the hill roads amply demonstrate.

But this caveat does not apply to small wheel bases. The large number of M800s, Santros, Altos on these same hill roads testify to reliability of FWD in this range of wheel bases.

Akash1886 · Sep 7, 2018

ankathil.arjun said:

Over here buddy, it is about justifying the price point for the top spec M8 Vs the features it provides. I believe even though purpose of XUV & Marazzo are very different but the kind of price point that is provided to M8 Version, I find it overpriced. I feel more than Marazzo, XUV makes better sense as a VFM option. In my view, down the line, Sales of the Marazzo will get hit by the XUV and that's purely because XUV is better spec vehicle for the price it charges. Coming to TUV, firstly, it wasn't benchmarked to the top of the line SUV(s) like Endeavour or Fortuner. Secondly, TUV competes with the likes of Eco Sport, Nexon & Brezza none of which provide 4WD options so TUV not having 4WD isn't an issue. Instead, TUV should get a 4 cylinder mill in diesel like Eco Sport, Nexon and Brezza. Both Mhawk80 & 100 are 3 Cylinder mills. Lastly, if it is competing to the likes of Innova then in top model M&M should have given an AWD so that Toyota would have felt some heat w.r.t the fact that a MPV costing half the price of Crysta gives an AWD in top model where as Innova doesn't. That ways, Marazzo would have been a real challenge to Innova.

No need to burden it with added features but then why to price it at premium & so close to a more competent product like XUV for top spec? Mahindra's pricing for Marazzo isn't very lucrative to be honest.

I am not saying or suggesting that M&M should give AWD/4WD in all variants of Marazzo. My point is if they had provided an option of AWD to the M8 spec then for sure, it would have competed much better to the XUV and to the likes of Ertiga and BR-V. Mind you, M6 & M8 are the only 2 variants which probably the personal buyers will look at. So, if not in M6 then atleast in M8 the features distribution should have been such that buyers should feel compelled for it.

In the first place then, they could have benchmarked it with the likes of Ertiga & BRV. Benchmarking it against Innova and then planning to compete with it with an engine that is approx 900cc smaller to 2.4D of Crysta, not having an AT on launch, not having 4-to-6 airbags in top model isn't justified as per my opinion.

If FE & Emission is the concern then why give Scorpio & XUV bigger diesel engines of 2.2 Lt? Why not provide the 3 Cyl Mhawk100 1.5Lt engine to them? 1.5L might not be underpowered and may have a good performance but for the price M&M is charging why would anyone buy a 1.5 Lt engine when products from Mahindra's stable like Scorpio & XUV give bigger and better engines?

How can we assume that an option of AWD/4WD would have made Marazzo an inferior off-roader? If for example we take Hexa, it is an MUV or Crossover as you say, but has the provision of 4x4 made it an inferior off-roader? With my personal experience in Hexa Off-Roading, I can vouch for the fact that Hexa is an able off-road vehicle too. The reason people would have complained about the dull/poor performance of Marazzo @ off-road would have been due to the comparatively smaller engine. If it had 2.0L or 2.2L Diesel engine along with an 4WD in top version, it could have been a very capable off-roader frankly.

Regards

Akash

DJ bro · Sep 8, 2018

Hi guys! I'm back after a long time. And back with a review of the most awaited and debated car, The Mahindra Marazzo or the U321 as we auto enthusiasts call it.
Went for a short test drive of the new shark in the sea full of 7 seaters.
First impression :The car is big, as big as the old innova and has a pretty good muscular presence for an mpv. Metal quality and interior plastic quality are really good except for a certain small bits. Great seats and overall legroom. Even the 3rd row is pretty usable on a daily basis. Cushioning is also great. Both, the leather seats and the fabric seats are really comfortable. But I personally would have preferred a little less beige. But it works in making the cabin airy. The ingress height is not much of a step up too... Which is a surprise for a body on frame muv. A solid and practical muv on paper.
The drive: After a pretty long wait, the test drive vehicle arrived. It was easy to get into a comfortable driving position and I got used to all the controls except for the new aircraft inspired hand brake. I twisted the key while pressing the clutch pedal and then I thought that I didn't start the engine, or I did something wrong. But looking at the dials only I realised that the engine has started and running. I have to complement mahindra for creating this so silent and smooth running engine. I decided to move the car and it got off to a start without any hesitation, but I noticed my dad stalled the engine when it was his turn. (probably he was nervous on driving a new car.) The response and acceleration is really good and brisk for a 1.6 ton muv with just a 1.5L engine. The clutch is oh so soft and the steering is only a bit heavier than my Nano. I could almost twirl it with 1 finger. But this is the weird feeling. All the controls are so light and smooth with the smooth engine and you forget that you have a 4.5m long car in your hands. It's only when you glance the IRVM that you realise the full length of the car. The gearbox is a bit further away from the driver on lower gears and the shifting action is almost slick, even though being a bit of long throw. The engine is smooth and silent till 3000rpm. It is only beyond that the engine noise will be heard inside. Within no time I reached 90kmph on a 6 lane highway with moderate traffic including traffic signals. No pitching, only slight bit of rolling, but very much confidence inspiring, once you get used to the lightness. Then going into the rough test ground, tested out the suspension on big and small potholes. The car isn't bothered by small ones. It's only when u let the car into big undulated ones, the car rocks from side to side. Even then, the suspension takes the beating silently and smoothly with no harsh jolts being allowed in the cabin. I would say its the first Mahindra which rides and drives so well and so smooth. This comes from me who drives the Hexa and Nexon almost everyday. It was a revelation of travelling in the Marazzo after driving the Ertiga especially. The new surround cool air conditioning works really well and no better time to test it than a hot and sunny afternoon.

Infotainment system :The infotainment unit on the M8 variant is easy to use mostly. Only certain functions seem cluttered and confusing, but once u know how to, then it's easy. Navigation is of really good quality and easy to use. Didn't test android auto though. Audio quality isn't much to boast of, but has enough customisation settings to keep it decent. Didn't get enough time to explore other features.

Pricing :As far as pricing goes, mahindra have got the Marazzo exactly where they wanted... The vacant spot which the old Innova left and it works really well. 11.5L for the basic M2 variant and 16.5L for the top end M8. Best value when compared to the Innova if you want a really comfortable 7/8 seat Mpv. My choice is the M6 retailing for 14.5L. But due to budget restrains, can consider only the M4 variant for 13.3L. Its got almost everyone needs for an mpv. The Mahindra Marazzo, really impressive enough to me.
Hoping that soon the Marazzo will make it to my garage, replacing the Ertiga.

manojodungat · Sep 8, 2018

vijay said:

Both Hexa and Innova definitely are people mover MPVs; in-fact glorified MPVs, especially the Innovas. Marazzo might get a few undecided Hexa cutomers; but Innova ? I doubt, as they tend to be strong brand loyalists those Toyota customers.
Looking for an MPV ? Has it got

decent exterior styling; yet simple and practical
overall good fit & finish and perceived material quality
very good interior space
excellent AC
good drive-abilty
decent FE
good safety equipment
good after sale support
4WD? Forget it; an AT option could be a miss though

Iron Rock said:

Thank you Sir for bringing in some sanity and common sense.

Akash1886 said:

14 years and counting

DJ bro said:

Very well put review. That uniquely placed and designed AC unit might prove a deal sealer, IMHO

carcommentor · Sep 8, 2018

Since there is some apprehension about Marazzo engine’s adequacy, I thought I will show that it is good enough for Marazzo.
The power per ton of Innova Crysta 2.4L with kerb weight of about 1805 Kg is
bhp/ton = 147/1805x1000 = 81.44
The torque per ton of Innova Crysta is
torque = 343/1805x1000 =190.03
The power per ton of Marazzo with kerb weight of about 1650 Kg is
bhp/ton=121/1650x1000=73.33 which is just 8.11 bhp less than Innova
The torque per ton of Marazzo is
torque = 300/1650 x1000=181.82 which is just 8.21 Nm less than Innova
Even when fully loaded with 7 people of average 70kg, the torque available in Marazzo is 140.19 Nm (300/2410x1000)
By mounting the engine in front, M&M shaves off the transmission weight and reduces the inefficiencies associated with the RWD drive train.
The real concern should be the narrow turbo range of just 750 rpm (from 1750 to 2500) against, say, innova's 1400 rpm range (from 1400 to 2800 rpm). However by offering a 6th gear, M&M has ensured that even when hurtling down the highway, you can easily be within the turbo range of 1750 to 2500.

The only drawback that Marazzo engine has is the requirement of higher boost pressure of 21.81 psig (Pounds per Square Inch Gauge) against Innova's only 11.94 psig so Marazzo strains the turbo manifold. Also, the pressure ratio will be 2.81 for Marazzo while for Innova it would be closer to 2.09. Since the pressure ratio is higher, if you look at the compressor map (in case you can get hold of it somehow. Note: attached compressor map is a typical map, not Marazzo’s) , the efficiency island range will be narrower for Marazzo. Moreover the Surge line will be pretty close. Surge line represents flow instability. Continued operation within the left of surge line region can lead to premature turbo failure due to heavy thrust load. It is probably the reason the turbo range has been kept narrow in Marazzo.

Crazy cat · Sep 8, 2018

carcommentor said:

Since there is some apprehension about Marazzo engine’s adequacy, I thought I will show that it is good enough for Marazzo.
The power per ton of Innova Crysta 2.4L with kerb weight of about 1805 Kg is
bhp/ton = 147/1805x1000 = 81.44
The torque per ton of Innova Crysta is
torque = 343/1805x1000 =190.03
The power per ton of Marazzo with kerb weight of about 1650 Kg is
bhp/ton=121/1650x1000=73.33 which is just 8.11 bhp less than Innova
The torque per ton of Marazzo is
torque = 300/1650 x1000=181.82 which is just 8.21 Nm less than Innova
Even when fully loaded with 7 people of average 70kg, the torque available in Marazzo is 140.19 Nm (300/2410x1000)
By mounting the engine in front, M&M shaves off the transmission weight and reduces the inefficiencies associated with the RWD drive train.
The real concern should be the narrow turbo range of just 750 rpm (from 1750 to 2500) against, say, innova's 1400 rpm range (from 1400 to 2800 rpm). However by offering a 6th gear, M&M has ensured that even when hurtling down the highway, you can easily be within the turbo range of 1750 to 2500.

The only drawback that Marazzo engine has is the requirement of higher boost pressure of 21.81 psig (Pounds per Square Inch Gauge) against Innova's only 11.94 psig so Marazzo strains the turbo manifold. Also, the pressure ratio will be 2.81 for Marazzo while for Innova it would be closer to 2.09. Since the pressure ratio is higher, if you look at the compressor map (in case you can get hold of it somehow. Note: attached compressor map is a typical map, not Marazzo’s) , the efficiency island range will be narrower for Marazzo. Moreover the Surge line will be pretty close. Surge line represents flow instability. Continued operation within the left of surge line region can lead to premature turbo failure due to heavy thrust load. It is probably the reason the turbo range has been kept narrow in Marazzo.
View attachment 248169

With this calculation, Marazzo(73bhp, 181nm per ton) will have slightly better bhp/ton and nm/ton than Hexa(68bhp, 175nm per ton)? Obviously, Hexa would have the advantage of bigger engine, but it would still put Marazzo on the same range as Hexa as far as power is concerned?

As far as Engines are concerned, Innova's tuning is the best in class, be it the old Innova or the current Innova.

Akash1886 · Sep 8, 2018

manojodungat said:

I firstly did not mean to pin-point on a specific brand just in case I came across to be meaning so bro. When the Marazzo was being benchmarked alongside the Innova Crysta, I felt, M&M has taken a giant stride and for the good to compete with bigger MPV(s). Until the time I came to know @ launch that the new MPV is provided with a 1.5L Diesel engine I was actually excited for it on the technical front. The brand "Innova" established strongly the feet of Toyota in Indian MPV market since it's 1st gen in 2004-05. Ever since then, the market lapped up the Innova very positively so much so that across the facelifts and generations, TKM kept on raising the price so much that today even with things going for it, the price is a big concern. As pointed above, Innova now has somewhat become a product for the brand loyalists.

Marazzo has a lot going for it i.e Space, Looks & even the Comfort to a good extent. My concerns are, even with such a brilliant R&D and a history of providing extremely capable SUV(s) in past and even today, why wasn't Marazzo given the same treatment? I wished M&M should have given it a bigger engine and more airbags in the top spec model. Marazzo was benchmarked to Crysta but the length and all translate to that of the Older Innova(s) which still is fine. But on the technical front, from a capable brand like Mahindra I expected a lot more.

As far as my using of term "Over Confidence" goes, what I meant was, with the rising competition and available choices to the buyers, no brand can be over-confident today about their products irrespective of for how long it has been existing in the market. When an average buyer goes to buy a car, his or her way of comparing the available options in the price range is very different from that of an informed automotive enthusiast.

Just prior to launch of Marazzo, Toyota introduced Fortuner & Innova Crysta and it's Touring Sport with additional features which clearly suggests that even a celebrated MPV brand needs to timely upgrade it's offerings to make them even more VFM. Sanity & Common Sense means this only that from time to time keep making your product updated as to stay in competition and provide VFM to buyers.

Regards

Akash

manojodungat · Sep 8, 2018

Akash1886 said:

Ask those Innova and Fortuner owners what VFM means to them. There are loads of them in Kerala. It is that 6-8 years of trouble free ownership and peace of mind. Even when we consider them overprized, people still buy them and the monthly sales thread says it all. Since the ‘VFM’ thingy is very subjective, there is no point in dragging it beyond a point.

P.S: if any of my comments has hurt your sentiments in anyways, please accept my apologies

carcommentor · Sep 8, 2018

Crazy cat said:

Yes. power /ton will be less than Marazzo!
The power per ton of Hexa 2.2 L XM with kerb weight of about 2113 Kg is
bhp/ton = 153.86/2113x1000=72.81
The torque per ton of Hexa is
torque = 400/2113x1000 =189.30
The advantage of bigger engine is that the corrected airflow, and hence the boost required is less, so the engineers have the leeway to play with the wider engine efficiency range and also have the advantage of experimenting with a wider gear ratio range. As the engine power increases, the corrected airflow (lb/min) decreases hence the Pressure ratio decreases and the range available between Surge and Choke line increases. I have attached graph of corrected airflow (lb/min) which is on secondary axis and the rpm on Primary axis for better comprehension.
Interestingly Hexa has the peak bhp at 4000 rpm hence the Pressure Ratio will be similar to Innova's 2.090 despite a smaller engine than Innova. Hexa's Pressure Ratio works out to 2.033. So technically, Hexa can be tuned better .

Crazy cat · Sep 8, 2018

Hexa weighs 2113kgs? I read somewhere it is 2280kgs and also the Sales Rep of Tata bragged how their car weighs 2.250 tons?

Akash1886 · Sep 8, 2018

Hexa Weight Values

Regards

Akash

harishankar · Sep 9, 2018

I did a short test drive of this car and have a few observations:
1. The height is comfortable for 6 footers. However, the extension of the dashboard can be disconcerting to judge distance when driving.
2. Clutch is superb light and drive is very peppy in the city. Didn't test drive for long stretch though.
3. Steering feels very vague somehow. Didn't get the proper feel for steering.

Overall this feels like a nice easy to drive car , going by the experience in city driving conditions. Engine feels very peppy accelerating from 2nd, 3rd gears and I couldn't drive much at 4th gear considering the traffic.

Best part is the seating space. This is a nice option for big families. The SA told me that the mileage expected would be around 15 km/l in city and 18 in long distance. I personally think it might give 12-13 km/l in city and 16-17 km/l in long drive if driven conservatively.

adivik · Sep 10, 2018

I think this is more aimed at Taxi segment where they will be needing to replace the Old Innovas, most can't afford the the Cryta's and hence many may choose to replace them with cheaper Marazzo especially if commutes are going to within city or on Highway's. That should bring 3K numbers to Mahindra.

Crazy cat · Sep 10, 2018

adivik said:

At least, in TN, you can’t register Marazzo as taxi for now.

Mahindra Marazzo: New MUV By Mahindra

ankathil.arjun

V6

gearhead2

V8

Akash1886

Honoured Member

DJ bro

V10

manojodungat

V10

carcommentor

V6

Crazy cat

V10

Akash1886

Honoured Member

manojodungat

V10

carcommentor

V6

Crazy cat

V10

Akash1886

Honoured Member

harishankar

V6

adivik

V6

Crazy cat

V10