It makes sense to develop own engine when the sales number is very high consistenly and many different models use the same engine (eg. Swift, Ritz, etc). WIth the current volumes Tata would have thought financially it is better to source from Fiat for now which is a proven engine. When the time comes Tatas have the money power to develop any technology. On the integration of a 3rd party engine with a car we have a success story in Maruti that milked money from Fiat 1.3 L engines. The engines felt made for Marutis. The crux is, the engine should be used in appropriate size cars. When they fitted the same engine in Ertiga and Ciaz suddenly it felt underpowered and all the good point scored came to nil. I think Tata does well in this front as they dont compromise on Engine CC to cut cost. I mean, you can see S Cross with 1.3 L engine but the under rated Tata had guts to plonk 2.0 engine in Harrier whose size is comparabe to S Cross.
Is Tata Motors Trying To Kill Safari Storme?
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In near future All TATA cars may powered by JLR's Ingenium series engines, Sources tells that JLR looking possible options to localize these engines in india for their future models Once JLR-TATA starts producing ingenium series engines at pune plant, TATA Kyrotech(FCA engine) will replaced by 2.0L ingenium engine. That's the reason TATA just ordered 70000 Units of 2.0L Kyrotech engine from FCA, these 70k engines inventory sufficient for only next 3 to 4years only for both TATA Harrier and TATA Buzzard.
Thread Starter
#108
Picture for diesel car buyers won't be rosy at all after 2020.
Implementing BS6 is easy for the petrol but not for diesel. Mechanism for reducing NOx and particulate matter in the exhaust will increase cost of the car.
Also BS6 diesel is required that is available only in the big city. Filling inferior fuel will not only damage SCR but also BS6 compatible oil in the engine.
Overall it is going to be big headache for new buyers as transition from BS4 to BS6 won't be smooth at least for the diesel cars.
Considering all this factors, what will be the effect on secondhand diesel car prices after 2020?
Implementing BS6 is easy for the petrol but not for diesel. Mechanism for reducing NOx and particulate matter in the exhaust will increase cost of the car.
Also BS6 diesel is required that is available only in the big city. Filling inferior fuel will not only damage SCR but also BS6 compatible oil in the engine.
Overall it is going to be big headache for new buyers as transition from BS4 to BS6 won't be smooth at least for the diesel cars.
Considering all this factors, what will be the effect on secondhand diesel car prices after 2020?
Thread Starter
#110
Thread Starter
#111
What a waste of man-hours, resources, funds etc. Launched in 2017, will be axed in 2020. Such a short product life cycle.
Tata Safari storme was suffocated to promote Hexa. Now Hexa will be axed to promote seven seater Harrier. Is this your product planning TATA?
What a foolish company, killing its own product to promote other.
Alas they had spent same efforts on Safari Storme and given features like Auto Box, multi drive etc which Hexa has.
Look at Mahindra. They are still supporting stone age Bolero by upgrading it too BS6 and Tata is depending upon fiat sourced engine.
Harrier is still not perfect product. MG is bringing much superior product compared to Harrier. What will be the fate of UV business of Tata?
Tata Safari storme was suffocated to promote Hexa. Now Hexa will be axed to promote seven seater Harrier. Is this your product planning TATA?
What a foolish company, killing its own product to promote other.
Alas they had spent same efforts on Safari Storme and given features like Auto Box, multi drive etc which Hexa has.
Look at Mahindra. They are still supporting stone age Bolero by upgrading it too BS6 and Tata is depending upon fiat sourced engine.
Harrier is still not perfect product. MG is bringing much superior product compared to Harrier. What will be the fate of UV business of Tata?
I personally dont like monocoque 7 seaters as I feel it requires the toughness of ladder frame to haul heavy load and munch miles in all kinds of road. We havent seen one successful monocoque 7 seater in India, why Tata is trying to make a 7 seater Harrier? Even Kia Carniaval will bite dust if launched, in my humble opinion.
Thread Starter
#113
You are forgetting the XUV 500, Which from another Indian Manufacturer. It has been massively successful and is consistently posting higher sales figure than storme or even Storme and hexa combined.
If you frequent the himalayas its best to opt for a proper 4x4 or even a good AWD. However, RWD BOF SUVs also have their place and are unfortunately becoming rarer day by day. The same Applies to good 4x4s with transfercase in Mid & Budget segment.
If you frequent the himalayas its best to opt for a proper 4x4 or even a good AWD. However, RWD BOF SUVs also have their place and are unfortunately becoming rarer day by day. The same Applies to good 4x4s with transfercase in Mid & Budget segment.
Thread Starter
#115
Very True.
This is what will happen if you land hard on monocoque.
They are inherently weak.
Meanwhile TATA responded on the rumor of Hexa and denied it. But like Mahindra we do not see any efforts from Tata on BS6 engine modifications. Now there is a threat from newly launched MG Hector and Kia SUV that will not only affect Hexa but also Harrier. MG has taken a smart move of bringing BS6 complaint engine plus gearbox from fiat which is far superior than Harrier. Engine is silent and gear box is smooth plus mouth watering intro pricing. Who will consider Harrier that don't have auto option? Sorry Tata you missed the bus because of lazy people working for you. You had opportunity one year back to crack this segment but not now due to half backed product.
IMHO there is very little room left for Hexa in the fiercely competing MPV segment. Maruti and Renault are launching new MPV, Mahindra MPV is also successful.
But there is still scope for full size SUV. Only Mahindra is player in this segment, Scorpio is selling like hot cake. If Tata add AUTO box to Safari (which Scorpio don't have), it will have niche place in the market with no competition in less than 20L SUV market.
This is what will happen if you land hard on monocoque.
They are inherently weak.
Meanwhile TATA responded on the rumor of Hexa and denied it. But like Mahindra we do not see any efforts from Tata on BS6 engine modifications. Now there is a threat from newly launched MG Hector and Kia SUV that will not only affect Hexa but also Harrier. MG has taken a smart move of bringing BS6 complaint engine plus gearbox from fiat which is far superior than Harrier. Engine is silent and gear box is smooth plus mouth watering intro pricing. Who will consider Harrier that don't have auto option? Sorry Tata you missed the bus because of lazy people working for you. You had opportunity one year back to crack this segment but not now due to half backed product.
IMHO there is very little room left for Hexa in the fiercely competing MPV segment. Maruti and Renault are launching new MPV, Mahindra MPV is also successful.
But there is still scope for full size SUV. Only Mahindra is player in this segment, Scorpio is selling like hot cake. If Tata add AUTO box to Safari (which Scorpio don't have), it will have niche place in the market with no competition in less than 20L SUV market.
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Tata makes beautiful & strong products but they always mess up. They should have-
1>Given BS6 engines on Storme, Hexa along with AT gearboxes & 4x4.
2> Given 4x4 & AT on Harrier since day 1. They messed up big time and the GB they choosen does not support 4x4.
3> Give 4x4 or AWD on nexon. It will be a proper Duster AWD killer. No contest.
4> Improve the service training, seriously.
1>Given BS6 engines on Storme, Hexa along with AT gearboxes & 4x4.
2> Given 4x4 & AT on Harrier since day 1. They messed up big time and the GB they choosen does not support 4x4.
3> Give 4x4 or AWD on nexon. It will be a proper Duster AWD killer. No contest.
4> Improve the service training, seriously.
Thread Starter
#118
+1
Isn't it TATA's responsibility to provide proper special tools to Authorized Concord service centers? I have seen Jugad kind of arrangement to fill oil in the gearbox of Safari.
Also I have seen non functioning hydraulic jack put in to use by two grip-pliers. Cant they afford new hydraulic jack?
Isn't it TATA's responsibility to provide proper special tools to Authorized Concord service centers? I have seen Jugad kind of arrangement to fill oil in the gearbox of Safari.
Also I have seen non functioning hydraulic jack put in to use by two grip-pliers. Cant they afford new hydraulic jack?
This is really sad, 7 seater Harrier aka buzzard aka Cassini is a good vehicle but sorry there is no Safari DNA in that. it will be a monocoque and Safari is true blue SUV with its mighty LoF chassis. call that vehicle anything but safari.
But on close inspection that car looks like Harrier concept, as headlights have those arrow elements and definitely does not look production ready. So I feel that Tata might have considered it to be safari replacement and then thought it otherwise. Clearly these beauties are still not safari replacement.
But on close inspection that car looks like Harrier concept, as headlights have those arrow elements and definitely does not look production ready. So I feel that Tata might have considered it to be safari replacement and then thought it otherwise. Clearly these beauties are still not safari replacement.
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Thread Starter
#120
![[frustration]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Frustration.gif "Frustration [frustration]")
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