ICE For Scorpio S10 7-Seater (Side Facing)

rajanysvv · May 6, 2015

Hi Kanboy,
Am sorry to say this but a Scorpio is one of worst and unfriendly vehicle for an ICE system upgrade, 1 because of its shape and size and 2 because the manufacturer M&M either has no sense of music or is simply bad at designing a car suitable for good music (maybe still stuck up with tractor innovations). Now coming to your queries please note the replies as below in order:-

1. Stock speakers provided by Mahindra compared to the ICE upgrade has a phenomenal difference of a transistor to a digital Dolby DTS sound system of a theatre. The Sound quality and performance improvement levels can be clearly heard due to upgrade of 2 amps, sub, components, rear co axial (all Rainbow) and DSP (Mosconi).

2. My rear speakers are now powered by an amp. Initially I had the amp powering the front compos and sub woofer and the rear speakers were directly connected to the HU. As the fill output from the rear was not satisfactory I have now installed a mono amp beat1+ to power the sub and rear speakers are powered from the 4 channel amp Beat4. Partially the problem was because I had installed round speakers at the rear and not 6*9, as was not comfortable with cutting into the tailgate panels. 6*9 are the best option at rear if your ice is without a sub.

3. Regarding the capacity of the stock speakers provided by Mahindra, they are Onkyo brand with maybe 30 rms and not 100 rms. It's the max power output that is mentioned on them.

So to sum it up on upgrading ICE in a Scorpio, better avoid it! Simply use the stock set up till they die and then think of what to do next. After spending 1.2 lakh on Ice upgrade I still don't get the feel of music due to the bad speaker placements provided by Mahindra. Incase you wanna upgrade consider to at least install a amp to power the components and good quality wiring kit.

Kanboy · May 6, 2015

rajanysvv said:

Thanks for the prompt reply
Well I know the original onkyos are 30w rms max but my replacements are 100w rms, all around. Now as per your experience i think i should try out to first use the front components and rear 6x9s on the HU w/o an Amplifier if I think I can make ado with it I won't touch anything else on it, but if the sound doesn't work out for me then I will put in an amplifier or a mini sound conversion equaliser. My only apprehension with an amp or any auxiliary devices is that I have to get a Hi/Low RCA Converter, which over the period of time starts to bring in the engine whining sound, have you heard of or experienced this problem? Once am assured this will not happen at all then only will i get an amp, don't worry about the wiring I have my old sub kit still with me [clap]

. Have you upgraded anything else yet?

rajanysvv · May 6, 2015

Kanboy said:

Stock hu and upgraded speakers of 100 Watts rms combination will ultimately not satisfy your end output without an amp and wiring kit. If you don't wish to add an amp then it's better you audition the Rockford 40-70 watts rms range speakers. It's difficult to achieve a good sql in a Scorpio without a full ice upgrade. So at least you can aim at a decent spl at a lower cost with Rockford speakers.

Adding of rca/converters has not generated any whining nice, this occurs only if the technician does a bad job while fitting the ice upgrade or he runs the speaker/rca lines along the power lines.

So better do a audition first of the components with polk and some other brands and then decide.

VISHNUCARCRAZY · May 6, 2015

Aftermarket speakers especially at a power of 100W,definitely requires an amp setup,else jarring effect will be there which kills both the speaker quality and cabin ambience.
Better try atleast Amp of normal brands like Pioneer ,rather than going in for amps of JBL and rockford.
My total ICE budget was 40k-In swift.
Amp- JBL(2 channel)-Am regretting it as i could have done 4 channel.
Sub woffer-Box-Rockford fosgate
Speakers- Front- Focal
Rear- Stock-Nippon
Stereo-Sony XAV68 BT

4 channel Amp is better always as else there will be a limit to power balancing.
Now in my 2 channel set up,bass is at 60% treble-40%
Even though with my head unit i have quite reasonably managed to balance the same.

I am now loving the Thump of Subwoffer box.

Kanboy · May 6, 2015

Ok guy went to the guy and finalised on a few things for tomorrow morning will also put up my picture if its alright with Rajiv. Now what is coming
1. Front Components: Polk Audio DB6501 but the shopkeeper is insisting on the Focal 165A1SG or 165AS (He says go for the either Focals.)
2. Rear 6x9 in door: Pioneer 5 way TS 6995R or Pioneer Champion Series 400W (Will put both and try out and go for which ever sounds better)
3. Kenwood RCA converter
4.Focal Amplifier 4 Channel with Hi and Low Pass, I didn't note the series, but its for Rs. 8000 and the shopkeeper has assured me minimum 6 hrs of non stop music without rest.
5. Wiring will be a 12 gauge kit (will decide on the brand tomorrow)

Now the technician who was present had all the knowledge of the problems that people here had discussed about the wiring etc, engine whinning etc... But he is also suggesting me to retain a single speaker from the Stock for the Voice Information as its voice cannot be controlled from the HU, and it will be really loud. So am a little stuck there, as well does the call Via Bluetooth comes from the front only or from all around?
So guys what do you say about my simple humble set up...Again by your (Rajiv) experience I am not looking for an amazing sound but a considerable enchancement from the stock without going over board...If need be I have a woofer lying idle, I might just throw it in later.

rajanysvv · May 6, 2015

Pictures you are welcome to post. Please note the following;

Regarding speakers it is better to stick to one brand for both front and rear speakers.

The amplifiers rms output per channel has to match your speakers rms output along with the same impedance.

About retaining one stock speaker for voice assist system, this technician seems to have a inadequate knowledge of the Scorpio. Alerts of the voice assist system in the Scorpio are transmitted through the front right speaker. I have changed all the stock speakers and voice assist and Bluetooth works fine as before. Be careful and get the work done by a proper technician as the wiring in Scorpio S10 is a bit complex and any error will result in loss of warranty.

Don't go in a rush or haste to upgrade the system. Observe a few installations done in similar Scorpio s10 in Chandigarh. And most importantly choose a reputed installer who has done installations in S10 models.

And lastly my name is Rajan.

Kanboy · May 7, 2015

Rajan my sincere apologies mate on mistyping your name repeatedly.. good you informed me about this the car is gonna be in the shop by 10:30 for its upgrades...Rest before I allow the installer to make any amendments I will make sure he doesn't jeopardise my warranty.
Regards
Kanboy

Kanboy · May 9, 2015

Hey Mate Scorpio has been Officially Iced here as well...Now the end decisions
1. Front: Focal AS165 Components
2. Rear: Pioneer TS6995
3. Amp: Focal 4800 series
4. Wiring: Focal 8 Gauge
5. Speaker Wiring: Oxygen Free for fronts and Focal Ox Free for Rear.
6. 4 Channel JBL Hi/Low Converter
7. Dampening in all doors with speakers.
Now the music has started sounding like music. Minor setting for the Bass has to be made. Now the problem I have faced is as we have picked up the frequency from the front speakers as well which has the output for the Voice Command. When the Voice Command is activated it is amplified and given out thru the front speakers which causes a very LOUD scare :lol!:

and you are absolutely right about the amp being on always even when the HU was switched off. So now my way around these problems. I have reduced the gain to the front speakers from the amp and from the HU given more power to the front to fake the HU to reduce the Voice Command Volume. has it worked? a little [:D]

Now the second problem the amp working overtime, which got me thinking to your point. So the electrician suggested to put an aux on/off switch on the amps electric wiring, but I was against the idea as it would look out of place and ugly. Then he suggested the glove compartment which was again about running a wire across the floor up to the dashboard, which I was against..So in the end while playing with the switch I noticed it was a perfect fit between the seat rail and the floor right next to the amp (btw the amp is under the driver's seat) and we tested it which part my hand could reach under the seat which is a task as you know and fixed it there with a tie clip. Now I am waiting to go for trip to see how they perform on a long journey. I will post the pics soon

Kanboy · May 9, 2015

Hey guys pictures are attached for the entire set up. I didn't click many pictures during the set up because of the 40+ Degrees of Heat. But still one gets the idea of the entire set up. I have done the last few set ups and am extremely Happy with the results as I am getting the perfect amount of Bass, Mid and Treble which makes me smile everytime I listen to the music. If you have any suggestions or queries do let me know.

rajanysvv · May 9, 2015

Congrats Kanboy on your ICE upgrade.

1.What was your total budget.

2.Can you specify the amplifier and speakers output in rms.

3.Is the volume level same on radio and cd. I get a higher volume on radio compared to cd and usb even before the ice upgrade.

4. Since you have a aux on-off button to switch off the amplifier, and in off position I guess you will not be able to receive voice alerts since speaker will be powered by amp.

Kanboy · May 9, 2015

rajanysvv said:

Thank alot Rajan..
1. My budget was 25000 but I landed up spending 33000
2. My front speakers are 70W rms rear 100w rms and the amplifier is 70W rms per channel @ 4omhs
3. Well honestly I had the same problem earlier too but since I have got the upgrade I haven't checked the Radio or the CD player but to my understanding they will still be louder as its the setting from the HU itself.
4. Well [;)]

i didn't tell you this earlier but i got a stock speaker fixed under the steering wheel in the dashboard connected directly to the HU, so if i swith off the amp there is still a single speaker which gives out the Voice Command and a little bit of the music as now the level of volume that am keeping is quite low as compared prior to the Upgrade. [evil]

Hope this doesn't fall flat on my face though hehehehe

prasanna nj · Oct 11, 2017

Hi. I am currently using front components and 6X9 speakers at the rear. I have also added a 4 channel amp. Now I wish to add a sub woofer preferably shallow type enclosure because its a captain seats version with a bench at the rear.
I want to know if it is OK to have 6x9 and a Sub woofer in a same ICE setup. I see a lot people recommend 6x9 as an option if one can't afford a sub woofer due to space constraints.
Also recommend whether i need an additional amp if suppose i am installing a sub woofer .

rajanysvv · Oct 11, 2017

There is no issue in adding a sub woofer even if you have 6*9 rear speakers in your existing set up. 6*9 enhance the sound output at rear but do not supplement a sub woofer. So you can go ahead and add a sub but you need a mono amp to power it or you can go for a active powered sub woofer like Focal 2.1 if space is a constrain

prasanna nj · Oct 12, 2017

I have not seen many reviews about active subs and i think they are costly . I wish to add only the sub woofer with shallow type enclosure. As far now i have no plans of buying the second amp . I have no idea of where to fix it without eating the space under the 3rd row seats . My current amp is secured under the driver seats. Even this setup restricts the rear passenger from stretching their legs under the seats.

Also share about the advantage of damping. Does damping really make much difference in sound quality ? I am planning to do a diy job of damping. I never changed my audio systems in any of my pre-owned cars which are from hyundai. I am also currently using my i20 elite with the stock ICE setup. But in the scorpio i felt the stock speakers are absolute waste . I would expect a decent setup on a 15 lac car at least on a top end spec. I first changed only the speakers alone after reading some reviews but, later added the amp to achieve the needed quality. Now i want to experiment the damping. Be it an i20 or a scorpio i was never really annoyed by the engine and other external noises. But the music from the scorpio does sound lower compare to i20 at the speed of 130+ . will damping improve the sound quality at such speeds ?

rajanysvv · Oct 13, 2017

Either install a sub woofer with an amplifier (or a active subwoofer if space is constraint) or totally avoid it, as you will regret that your desired output level is not achieved and you will be forced to add it just the way you did it for the speakers. Scorpio being a larger vehicle in terms of cabin volume and noise compared to a hatchback like I20, the audio output levels will be inferior. Sound output in a Maruti 800 will sound better for the above and its not about cost of a vehicle. Scorpio has a good head unit but the speakers are of a basic nature. If you want good music you have to upgrade fully or leave it as it is. Your options are as follows:-

1. Leave the stock setup as it is and have peace of mind and save money. Sound quality will be inferior but life goes on

2. Upgrade speakers with a 4 channel amp. Budget Rs 15-40k. Sound output improves but there is something missing (Sub Woofer). 30% Setup

3. Add the sub woofer with a mono Amp. Extra cost Rs 15-30k. The extra thump from the sub will add excitement and satisfaction to the sound output. Add 20% to your set up.

4. Dampning. Cost Rs 1000 per sheet. Budget Rs 10K. Add a 20% sound output improvement to your set up.

4. Wiring, RCA Budget Rs 10-15K. Apart from saying that sound out may increase by 10%, actually this is very essential irrespective of output.

5. DSP or a digital sound processor will improve the sound output by 20% to complete your set up. Budget Rs 25k-1L. Only recommended for the die hard audiophiles.

Never install or upgrade your ICE in bits and pieces. You have to first understand what are your requirements and budget. See fellow scorpio vehicles with upgraded ICE set up to understand final output levels. Same equipment in hatchbacks and sedans will give higher output. Once you are deceided then start but never like just speakers and then addind a sub , it will eventually eat up more budget.

ICE For Scorpio S10 7-Seater (Side Facing)

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