How Reliable Are the Performance Stats of Indian Auto Magazines?


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In this, I would like to add that not just mags but even tele-shows of cars have biased opinion for some car/manufacturer. In some cases, when comparo is done, some vehicles are completely kept out [anger].

I think forums like this is the best place to get real details than depending completely on some mags/car shows.
 
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Reviews of Top Gear India and Autocar India quoted verbatim from Dilipbam.com :

TOP GEAR MAGAZiNE REViEW

TopGear December 2011 issue Hard copy only: 162 pages.

ToP GeaR or ToP FeaR? Why FEAR? FEAR of mistakes. FEAR of Incomplete and inaccurate data. FEAR of Inconsistent presentation, leading to this reader’s confusion. Read on……

Like all udder magazines, the last pages: 131 to 162, give New Car & Bike Guide. Page 131 features “The guide to using our guide”. Bike data begins on page 156, but there is no separate “guide to using our bike guide” for the bike section so I suppose the initial “guide to using our guide” on page 131 applies to bikes also.

In “the guide to using our guide” on page 131, #03 gives prices in your city. Indicative ex-showroom prices. 0n road for Bombay & Delhi.

While in the car sexion page 132 to 154 the headings mention Delhi (on road) & Bombai (on road), no such disclaimer is there in the bike sexi0n. Why? What is a reader to assume? Are they 0n-road or ex-showroom? Please explane. Did I pay 100 bucks cash for trash?

Without wasting time on cages [cars or even caaars], Let me confine myself to bikes for the time being. Specifically pages 156 to 162. Page 156 starts with Harley Davidson (HD). While Dilli and Bombai prices are mostly given, ChainNahi and BangAllWhore prices mostly show: na.

WTF does na mean? Not available? Not allowed? Not acceptable? WTF? And if it is going to be mostly ‘na’, why not delete those columns bkoz in any case 0ne is Chain Nahi (=no peace) and it is impossible for anyone to BangAllWhores in this hole cunt ree in one lifetime!

Still on page 156: Luuk under “Sportster”. XL 883L price: Delhi price is shown as 7.9 and Bombai price is shown as 6.48. This is impossible. Every0ne knows that Delhi bike price is always cheapest (except maybe Daman) in the hole cunt ree. Misprint? Somebody goofed and I paid 100 bucks for this goof. Money back?

Then there is the TG rating. In the Harley Davidson sexi0n, the magazine rates HD Road King as 15/20 (75%) and V-Rod as 16/20 (80%). All udder bikes are rated as ‘na’==na na na == naat at aall!

After HD it is HeroMotoCorp. No bike of this brand rates more than 15/20, which Karizma gets. Ha ! What kind of megazene is this? Bluddy Splendor is the LARGEST SELLiNG SiNGLE MODEL in the hole of this world! And it is not even featured!

It should be featured and given 20/20. But the geniuses at ToP FeaR seem to FeaR giving anything 20/20 and don’t even feature it, bkoz if they featured it they would have to give Splendor a 20/20 rating, which ToP FeaR megazene is avoiding doing even though the maximum number of people in this hole world are rooting for Splendor!

In the 100 cc category (actually 97.2 cc) of Hero, TG has featured Passion but none of the other umpteen derivatives of this 97.2 cc engine – which is OK, but not featuring the 125 cc offerings of Hero is too big a mistake to ignore. Glamour doesn’t even glimmer and Super Splendor (both 125 cc) gets no Superiority. Eh?

Autocar magazine Review

Autocar – 0tt0kaar India magazine. December 2011 issue. Rs.125/-. 326 pages.

If you really want to evaluate some megazene, best is to start backwards from last page. Page 324 is creative and humorous – very guud. Then analyze bike information on pages 321, 322 & 323==0nly three pages for maybe 200 models but 27 pages for caars. In any kace, the name is 0tt0kaar not 0tt0bike. At least this megazine is honest to its name.

Starting at the top of page 321, begins with Bajaj 0tt0. It begins with Platina 100 and under “Start (Kick/Electric)” mentions start as ‘K’, which probably means Kick ONLY – no self start. All udder bikes are mentioned as ‘E’. Does that mean “E” start ONLY? Which means no Kicker, like in Honda Dazzler and some other bikes?

But how many people know that Honda Dazzler does NOT have kicker, only self-start.

So does this Rs.125/- megazene make things kleer? Not to a stupid idiot like me who spent Rs.125/- for it. Why can’t they write “E+K” to make things kleer to 3-idi0ts like me who spended Rs.125/-?

Going further, look under TVS. Incomplete information and some WRONG information!

Eh? Wrong? What’s wrong?

The third entry from top, that’s what’s wrong.

The “Scooty Teenz” entry to be precise. In the fifth column [my god! Are they are fifth columnists?] under “Stroke 2/4)” they write ‘4’. Does 0ttokaar megazene believe in “Different strokes for different folks”?

Gentlemen of 0ttokaar megazene, plizz note: Skooty Teenz is 2stroke NOT 4stroke.

Pay attention to detail.

Like the detail I found that the heaviest bike in this hole cunt ree is Harley Davidson Ultra Classic Electra Glide 1803 cc V-twin which weighs 430 kg and costs 43 lakh. That is Rs.10,000/- per kg for this bike. This bike shure knows how to throw its weight around! By the way, it is also the COSTLiEST bike in the hole of Hindusstaan!

Looking at the car section=Pages 294 – 320, the print / font is TOO small! I am 66. I need thicker glasses!

Map of Buddh circuit is very informative. I remember the TWiN RiNG MOTEGY circuit in Japan where I raced a 1000 cc Honda FiRESTORM in 1997 in which I touched almost 200 kph. That’s the fastest I can remember I have been.

The Road Test of Hyosung GT650N (page 212 – 217) lacks technical punch==Low End Torque.

GT650N test was also done by the three-member TEAM bikeguru – Devjeet Saha: age 26, height 5.8 feet, weight 68 kg., bikeguru age 66, height 5.8 feet, weight 50 kg, and Rahul Bam, son of bikeguru, age 34, height 5.9 feet, weight 73 kg. You can read their independent reports on DilipBam.Com

On page 215, last paragraph on LH of page, it says “Low and mid range grunt is impressive”.

I beg to differ. Low End grunt is definitely not impressive in fact there is hardly any grunt at low end. Unless of course, they mean to say 7500 rpm is the low end because max torque is produced at 7500 rpm. For an engine that peaks at 9000 rpm, considering 7500 rpm as low end is pushing the Low Too High!

My own ‘feel’ about the TORQUE CURVE of this GT650 engine is that it is too steep. When I had tested the 2stroke Kawasaki-Bajaj KB100 for Car&Bike magazine in June 1987 (almost 25 years ago) and the 2stroke Yamaha RX100 a couple of months later, manufacturers (Bajaj & Yamaha)used to send us hard copy of their TORQUE CURVE. I distinctly remember the slope of the TORQUE CURVE of the KB100 was a steep 72 degrees while RX100 was a flat 36 degrees. This means even though peek TorK of 10 Nm may happen at 6000 rpm, but even at say 3000 rpm the TorK would be @ 8 Nm in the RX100 whereas in KB100 at 3000 rpm it would be 4 Nm. I wish I could get torque curves of all current bikes. I googled also, but could not find TorK curve of any bike on the net.

Road Tests in megazenes are more a statements of rider feel & data as given by manufacturer and / or measured by the tester. There is no analysis or explanation of the WHY the bike & engine performs & behaves the way it does.

The main reason for poor Low End TorK in the GT650N is the stroke to bore ratio. 0tt0kaar megazene mentions that GT650 is a “short-stroke” engine where bore is 81.5 mm and stroke is 62 mm. Thus stroke to bore rati0 is 62 divided by 81.5==0.76. An engine having such a poor rati0 CANNOT produce strong Low End grunt, because as per Archimedes Law: Mechanical Advantage X Velocity Ratio==1. Always.

I 0ne durr if Autocratic Autocar mega zzine has heard of Archimedes.

In the 0tt0kaar test report of the GT650N I find no mention of headlight beam quality. This is an inexcusable lapse bkoz half of our life on the planet is darkness and we need to kleerly see where we are going if we want to stay alive!

Fact is, this bike has 55/60 watt headlight power while most other bikes have only 35 watts. This makes the bike comparatively safer at night.

Also, there are just 11 pages for bikes: page 207 to page 217. BAHooT Na iNSAAFi Hai !

Finally: I must compliment Joy Chaudhuri for his excellent article and beautiful photos. The article really gives everything about Canacona and Palolem (South Goa). The choice of photos and the historical research is fantastic, except for one error: The Portuguese 0ccupied Goa in 1506. While the first Mughal, Babur, came to India in 1526, which is 20 years later. So the Portuguese could not have taken it from the Mughals, as mentioned in column 3 on page 182.

Fact is, it was not the Mughals from whom the Portuguese took Goa, but from the Adil Shahi Sultan.

And 0tt0kaar, can you please number ALL your pages? The pages between 177 & 185 are not numbered.

Bikers: PLEASE DON’T WASTE Rs.125/-. THERE’s HARDLY ANYTHING FOR BiKERs. AND WRONG DATA ABOUT BiKE. THiS MAGAZiNE DOES NOT KNOW ABOUT STROKEs, WHiCH IS SAD!

E&OE.
 
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Well now dear Navtej,you really need to drive the T-Jet once in your life and you will understand why ACI or I consider it far better than the City when it comes to joy behind the wheel.The City has a gem of an engine with fantastic top end and well revving characteristics but then city's steering,ride and body control all lag behind the T-Jet.While the shootout you are talking about is based on the 'fun behind the wheel' factor so here the T-Jet easily wins,in fact if you drive a Fiesta 1.6 then you may forget even the T-Jet too as it has best steering response,throttle input response(full rev range not only mid range like T-Jet) and body control.
While its a fact that as an overall package City wins over T-Jet,why?Simple it is:-
City has better cabin space overall.
Better plastic quality.
Better FE.
And seats are also better.
And most important:Its a Honda not a Fiat and everyone knows the A.S.S. conditions of Fiat.

So if fun to drive is scale then T-Jet is far better than City while if you want an overall package,you seldom cross 140 kph mark,you want good FE and good after sales support then City wins head and shoulders over the T-Jet.

I think in a shootout between new Swit ZXi and Jazz the Jazz won.

I think they are comparing the city with its 2003 V-tec one,that car had a great power to weight ratio.Rest +1 to you,the Top gear then simply publish craps.
Dear Vipul, while I agree with you so far as the "Drivers' Cars" are concerned. The Linea and the Fiesta are the only sedans this side of 10 Lakhs that fit the bill owing to their exceptional dynamics. Most car mags agree on this as do most experts. TopGear infact says the Linea is the only Driver's car now in the C segment (besides the Fiesta Classic)since the new Fiesta petrol has lost the Classic's powerful midrange and one has to wait for the revs to crawl up to 4000 before the urge or the surge is felt.

However, if you believe that 'Fun to drive' is the most important criterion for these magazines, you got another thing coming (Here I must make an exception for TopGear India which rates driving pleasure in a car as the most essential thing but is otherwise riddled with errors that mar the whole reading experience).

Consider the 'Giant midsized diesel sedan comparison' carried out by AutoCar India in its August 2011 issue (see attached file please). Despite rating the Verna diesel as poor in both body control and steering feel, they have declared it as 'their choice'!
 

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Navtej yeah even i was really shocked when they declared Verna as the best diesel sedan in its segment! I was like C mon it should have been given to the Vento or Linea!
 
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sorry guys am not reading full thread but i feel there can be difference in performance test figures of mags because they all use different tools and devices!
 
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@Navtej - You are views are mainly directed against Autocar India which is regrettable as Overdrive is even worser than some news channels seen in TV.The performance figures are always a guide and manily depend on you the user.The figures they achieve is based on testing on one cycle.Even car manufacturers don't test their cars multiple times.
 
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Reviews of Top Gear India and Autocar India quoted verbatim from Dilipbam.com :

TopGear December 2011 issue Hard copy only: 162 pages.

ToP GeaR or ToP FeaR? Why FEAR? FEAR of mistakes. FEAR of Incomplete and inaccurate data. FEAR of Inconsistent presentation, leading to this reader’s confusion. Read on……

Like all udder magazines, the last pages: 131 to 162, give New Car & Bike Guide. Page 131 features “The guide to using our guide”. Bike data begins on page 156, but there is no separate “guide to using our bike guide” for the bike section so I suppose the initial “guide to using our guide” on page 131 applies to bikes also.

In “the guide to using our guide” on page 131, #03 gives prices in your city. Indicative ex-showroom prices. 0n road for Bombay & Delhi.

While in the car sexion page 132 to 154 the headings mention Delhi (on road) & Bombai (on road), no such disclaimer is there in the bike sexi0n. Why? What is a reader to assume? Are they 0n-road or ex-showroom? Please explane. Did I pay 100 bucks cash for trash?

....................
A lot from Dilip Bam there, I personally have no problem with his style, But I dont think that would be allowed here. Cause its against forum policies[rules]
 
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@Navtej - You are views are mainly directed against Autocar India which is regrettable as Overdrive is even worser than some news channels seen in TV.The performance figures are always a guide and manily depend on you the user.The figures they achieve is based on testing on one cycle.Even car manufacturers don't test their cars multiple times.
Cortina, you got me wrong. I have said it before and say it again that Autocar India is the best car mag on sale in India right now. Their stories and reviews are fantastic. It is also a magazine whose performance figures in r/o most cars are quite accurate, mistakes are rare. The same, sadly, can't be said for TopGear India and certainly not for Overdrive. Car India and BSM are fairly accurate too though.

What I wanted to point out was that Autocar India's reviews at times are biased in favour of a particular manufacturer. Nothing wrong with that per se, we all love certain cars and hate others for reasons known only to us, don't we? It is just that since there are a number of contributors to the articles that ACI carries, I would expect that bias in one article would be counterbalanced by another article or review. When that doesn't happen, it is a wee bit disappointing. That then means there is an editorial bias and that is exactly what I am a bit annoyed about since Autocar India was and is my first love as far as car mags go.

I would much rather they declare 2 or even 3 winners in a mega-shootout, for example, the most fun to drive car, the most value for money car, the most suitable car for families etc and let the reader take his pick.
 
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Navtej yeah even i was really shocked when they declared Verna as the best diesel sedan in its segment! I was like C mon it should have been given to the Vento or Linea!
Cooldhaya, they might have declared the Verna as the winner but I still appreciate their honesty about the Verna's perceived handling limitations. However, I have seen many Verna diesels driven at 150 kmph+ speeds and it is the C Segment hot seller, so I have my doubts whether it is as nervous at high speeds as is made out by most car mags and experts.[surprise]
 
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Cooldhaya, they might have declared the Verna as the winner but I still appreciate their honesty about the Verna's perceived handling limitations. However, I have seen many Verna diesels driven at 150 kmph+ speeds and it is the C Segment hot seller, so I have my doubts whether it is as nervous at high speeds as is made out by most car mags and experts.[surprise]
Maybe they think from race track perspective as if it is going to be used for NASCAR racing [lol].

Btw, why isn't Auto India in the list ?[confused]
 
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