Hot Hatches in Indian Market


Which is the Best "Hot Hatch in India"

  • Punto Abarth

    Votes: 11 37.9%
  • Baleno RS

    Votes: 1 3.4%
  • Polo GT TDI

    Votes: 3 10.3%
  • Figo TDCi Sports

    Votes: 9 31.0%
  • Polo GT TSI

    Votes: 5 17.2%

  • Total voters
    29
  • Poll closed .
Thread Starter #1
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My my, I did a Google search for "hot hatch / hot hatches / hot hatchbacks" in TAI, in the last one year, and guess what ???? --- NO such thread [surprise]

There's a recent thread in TAI about "bHP / Torque and outright acceleration figures" of "Nexon Diesel and Baleno RS" (link). I started thinking "we can't compare a Compact SUV with a Hot Hatch".... and stopped. Did a Google Search and found "No thread in TAI comparing Hot Hatches in India". So made my own.

Hot Hatch is a high-performance hatchback car, that gives a FAST accelerations times, for Hatch. Hot hatches in India are NOT the fastest cars on a straight line, but, they give plenty of performance at reasonable prices. One doesn't need to shell out Rs. 15 Lakhs to own one.

"Honda Civic Type R" can do 0-100 kph in 5.8 seconds and hit a top speed of 271 kph. "Hyundai i30 N" can do a 0-100 kph in 6.4 seconds. Instead of taking above Global Standards for "Hot Hatch" I simply compared FIVE Hatches that do 0-100 kph within 9 sec to 11 sec and compared them against few more parameters to see which is the MOST AFFORDABLE Hot Hatch in India. Result is interesting...

Hot Hatches.jpg

I feel, Figo TDCi Sports, which is 4th fastest Hatch in India, but only 0.3 seconds slower but a HUGE Rs. 1.14 Lakhs cheaper than the 2nd fastest qualifies as the HOTEST Hatch in India. Polo GT times were taken from topgear (link). Baleno timings came from ACI. Figo weight was derived from "95 bHP/Ton" reference given in one website. For prices, I consulted carwale site (link).

What says thou ?

OT : As per uncle google, even the Figo Aspire 1.5 TDCi Sports has a 0-100 kph time of less than 11 seconds. I found the Compact Sedan to be cheaper than Baleno RS by 78K (link) and cheaper than Baleno 1.3 Alpha by 87K (link). WHAT ?!! [surprise]
 
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My my, I did a Google search for "hot hatch / hot hatches / hot hatchbacks" in TAI, in the last one year, and guess what ???? --- NO such thread [surprise]

There's a recent thread in TAI about "bHP / Torque and outright acceleration figures" of "Nexon Diesel and Baleno RS" (link). I started thinking "we can't compare a Compact SUV with a Hot Hatch".... and stopped. Did a Google Search and found "No thread in TAI comparing Hot Hatches in India". So made my own.

Hot Hatch is a high-performance hatchback car, that gives a FAST accelerations times, for Hatch. Hot hatches in India are NOT the fastest cars on a straight line, but, they give plenty of performance at reasonable prices. One doesn't need to shell out Rs. 15 Lakhs to own one.

"Honda Civic Type R" can do 0-100 kph in 5.8 seconds and hit a top speed of 271 kph. "Hyundai i30 N" can do a 0-100 kph in 6.4 seconds. Instead of taking above Global Standards for "Hot Hatch" I simply compared FIVE Hatches that do 0-100 kph within 9 sec to 11 sec and compared them against few more parameters to see which is the MOST AFFORDABLE Hot Hatch in India. Result is interesting...

View attachment 237074

I feel, Figo TDCi Sports, which is 4th fastest Hatch in India, but only 0.3 seconds slower but a HUGE Rs. 1.14 Lakhs cheaper than the 2nd fastest qualifies as the HOTEST Hatch in India. Polo GT times were taken from topgear (link). Baleno timings came from ACI. Figo weight was derived from "95 bHP/Ton" reference given in one website. For prices, I consulted carwale site (link).

What says thou ?

OT : As per uncle google, even the Figo Aspire 1.5 TDCi Sports has a 0-100 kph time of less than 11 seconds. I found the Compact Sedan to be cheaper than Baleno RS by 78K (link) and cheaper than Baleno 1.3 Alpha by 87K (link). WHAT ?!! [surprise]
Nice interesting thread @vijay, and well compiled, you have covered the true 'HOT HATCH' not the stickered 'S' swift et al.

I've never driven any of the above, would be interested and use your pointers during the TD to understand this thread better.

Regards
Vinod
 
Thread Starter #5
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Nice interesting thread @vijay, and well compiled, you have covered the true 'HOT HATCH' not the stickered 'S' swift et al.

I've never driven any of the above, would be interested and use your pointers during the TD to understand this thread better.

Regards
Vinod
Come on, Mr Vinod ...

Though I've sat inside an Abarth and GT TSI, I've not driven these "Hot Five". I am lazy and don't go the extra mile to TD interesting launches; maximum I do is talking to owners. What I compiled HERE, is after reading many reviews and digging out some info from Manufacturer's websites. That's all.

When I was in the market to buy a Sedan, in 2012, I too was looking for outright Acceleration. Rapid caught my eye and Verna won the Final. I made this thread to create some awareness for such people looking for outright Acceleration in Hatchbacks.

In fact, till today morning I was NOT EVEN AWARE about "Figo and Aspire TDCi Sports" variants. Few weeks ago, a Figo kept challenging me repeatedly over 30km distance on the Highway, and I was thinking, 'WOW, how the heck this chap is doing THIS with a lousy engine". Today, I'm sure it must have been the Sports variant. Ford India website even gives the "probable Maintenance Cost" in terms of 10,000km, 20,000km, 30,000km, 40,000km etc. These figures are in Rs 3,000, Rs 5,000 range (bit more for 60,000km service). What else you want ?


Apart from EcoSport, they've got two MORE winners. THIS is not the way they should market.
 
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Hot hatchs in the Indian market haven't been a great success to be modest about the facts in lucknow itself where I am constant lookout to see exotic cars (read=the three big germans and if lucky the prancing horse or the raging bull have even spotted a red mustang just keep drooling) but when it comes to likes of polo gt twins or the baleno RS or even figoS they are rarely visible in a week where I would spot 4-7 exotic cars (most of them bmw X1 &X3) the hot hatch number would be at best 2-3. The most common among these hot hatchs are the gt twins. The figo S and abarth punto are real rare breeds on lucknow streets haven't seen either one in about two months. The primary reason for the lack of sales is the mindest of car buying public features and mileage(most important) and imposing looks are the key factors performance is bonus. And the dawn of this compact SUV segment has hit the nail in the coffin for these hot hatches since prices are similar and the product is better vfm (compare ecosport and abarth punto).
We as a car buying nation have still not warmed up to the idea of a fast small car (hot hatch) look at the polo gti.
 
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Thread Starter #7
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Awesome stuff
Just one suggestion if you dont mind
Performance/tonne would be an excellent addition here
Wow, excellent idea [clap]. Worked on it and found that this is highest for Punto Abarth. Also, as this Power/Ton value keeps decreasing, the 0-100 kph times keeps increasing. I should have included thesem it in the 1st place. Thanks for the suggestion. See the Updated Table below :

Hot Hatches 01.jpg

Some funny data from above:

  1. Between "Abarth and RS", a power difference of 13.4 bhp/Ton results in huge 0.93 seconds.
  2. Between "RS and GT TDI", a power diff of 11.6 bHP/Ton results in 0.02 seconds.
  3. Between "GT TDI and Figo TDCi Sports", a power diff of 0.8 bHP/Ton results in 0.28 seconds.
  4. Between "Figo TDCi Sports and GT TSI", a power diff of 0.3 bHP/Ton results in 0.3 seconds.
Complicated relationship... Thank God, I didn't study Mechanical Engineering [;)]

I didn't include "in-gear-acceleration" (IGA) times, as I felt it is irrelevant for outright acceleration. But, if anyone wants to "add IGA times or any other relevant data", please feel free to update. Original Excel File is attached ( View attachment Hot Hatches 01.xls ).
 
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Voted for the Figo Sports TDCi. Even though its the slowest in comparison, it is still the most practical and sensible choice.
The Abarth and the Polo GT twins are certainly more fun to drive, but with the low rear seat space, and not so great service experience, make them less practical.
I feel these cars are great to enjoy during an event or a rental experience, but I would not want to live with them as my primary car.
The Baleno RS had come out as the fastest in many tests, but in comparison with the Figo, taking into consideration the better fuel efficiency of the Figo diesel and also the better suspension on the sports variant, I feel the Figo is a better option. Also, the lower pricing only helps making it more value for money.

Just read what I wrote, and realized that I am getting old. Maybe if I was just getting out of college, the Abarth Punto would have been my choice, but the pain of wisdom teeth emerging, does drill down some sense into you.
 

kkn13

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In fact, till today morning I was NOT EVEN AWARE about "Figo and Aspire TDCi Sports" variants. Few weeks ago, a Figo kept challenging me repeatedly over 30km distance on the Highway, and I was thinking, 'WOW, how the heck this chap is doing THIS with a lousy engine". Today, I'm sure it must have been the Sports variant. Ford India website even gives the "probable Maintenance Cost" in terms of 10,000km, 20,000km, 30,000km, 40,000km etc. These figures are in Rs 3,000, Rs 5,000 range (bit more for 60,000km service). What else you want ?
Sports variant doesnt have any engine changes, its got a lowered suspension setup and some cosmetic changes

Voted for the Figo Sports TDCi. Even though its the slowest in comparison, it is still the most practical and sensible choice.
The Abarth and the Polo GT twins are certainly more fun to drive, but with the low rear seat space, and not so great service experience, make them less practical.
I feel these cars are great to enjoy during an event or a rental experience, but I would not want to live with them as my primary car.
The Baleno RS had come out as the fastest in many tests, but in comparison with the Figo, taking into consideration the better fuel efficiency of the Figo diesel and also the better suspension on the sports variant, I feel the Figo is a better option. Also, the lower pricing only helps making it more value for money.

Just read what I wrote, and realized that I am getting old. Maybe if I was just getting out of college, the Abarth Punto would have been my choice, but the pain of wisdom teeth emerging, does drill down some sense into you.
Ground clearance too
Figo has excellent ground clearance
 
Thread Starter #10
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Hot hatchs in the Indian market haven't been a great success to be modest about the facts in lucknow itself where I am constant lookout to see exotic cars (read=the three big germans and if lucky the prancing horse or the raging bull have even spotted a red mustang just keep drooling) but when it comes to likes of polo gt twins or the baleno RS or even figoS they are rarely visible in a week where I would spot 4-7 exotic cars (most of them bmw X1 &X3) the hot hatch number would be at best 2-3. The most common among these hot hatchs are the gt twins. The figo S and abarth punto are real rare breeds on lucknow streets haven't seen either one in about two months. The primary reason for the lack of sales is the mindest of car buying public features and mileage(most important) and imposing looks are the key factors performance is bonus. And the dawn of this compact SUV segment has hit the nail in the coffin for these hot hatches since prices are similar and the product is better vfm (compare ecosport and abarth punto).
We as a car buying nation have still not warmed up to the idea of a fast small car (hot hatch) look at the polo gti.
True. As a first time buyer with Middle Class background, I too wouldn't buy a Hot Hatch. Even in B'lore, I see very few of these. But, nowaday, many first time buyers can stretch their strings. Few months ago, my junior colleague shelled out Rs. 9 Lakhs plus (on road price) for a Baleno 1.2P Alpha. He TD-ed Aspire 1.2 Petrol, was NOT impressed and he was NOT EVEN aware of the "faster and cheaper diesel Sports variant".

But, believe it or NOT, there HAS ALWAYS BEEN a huge Market for FAST cars, in India. Swift and Dzire are the prime examples. I remember reading "Dzire is quicker than Amaze in 0-100 km times", in a review of Amaze. Indians will buy a faster car, PROVIDED the "initial + running + maintenance costs" are Affordable. Let us see these:

  • Swift / Dzire / Amaze all can do the 100 kph sprint around 13 seconds.
  • Baleno 1.2P / Elite i20 CRDi can do the 100 kph sprint around 12 seconds.
  • Figo / Aspire TDCi Sports twins can do 0-100 kph in under 11 seconds --- As you said, customer mindset or perception. Note: In comparison, my Verna 1.6 CRDi does it in 10.3 seconds. Figo twins ARE quick. PERIOD.
Above cars cost around 7 - 8.5 Lakhs. Baleno, Swift & Dzire sell in truck loads, while Figo TDCi Sports is cheaper than Swift Zdi by Rs.16,000/- (link). It drives BETTER, has a bigger boot, matches Swift in features, gives 1,00,000 km warranty against Swift's 40,000km warranty, and it also runs on Diesel. Above all, this Figo is 2.75 seconds faster to 100 kph; it is also 2.25 sec faster than Baleno 1.2P. Finally it is in the category of "Indian Hot Hatches". This Figo has got "Initial + Running + Maintenance Costs" PLUS Performance --- ALL the boxes ticked.

If you compare "Aspire TDCi Sports" to Diesel powered Dzire, Amaze & Ameo, it is the FASTEST (around 11 seconds) to sprint to 100 kph. It also has the widest R15 tyres AND ... it is cheaper by Rs 33,000/- [:D] (link). Again, this Aspire has ALL the boxes ticked. Additionally, the front of both Aspire and Dzire, resemble Aston Martin Cars [;)]

However, Ford has to create market awareness.


Voted for the Figo Sports TDCi. Even though its the slowest in comparison, it is still the most practical and sensible choice.
The Abarth and the Polo GT twins are certainly more fun to drive, but with the low rear seat space, and not so great service experience, make them less practical.
I feel these cars are great to enjoy during an event or a rental experience, but I would not want to live with them as my primary car.
The Baleno RS had come out as the fastest in many tests, but in comparison with the Figo, taking into consideration the better fuel efficiency of the Figo diesel and also the better suspension on the sports variant, I feel the Figo is a better option. Also, the lower pricing only helps making it more value for money.

Just read what I wrote, and realized that I am getting old. Maybe if I was just getting out of college, the Abarth Punto would have been my choice, but the pain of wisdom teeth emerging, does drill down some sense into you.
Among the five, Figo TDCi Sports is fourth fastest. And YES, as you said, it is VERY practical and extremely sensible. I too chose Figo for the very same reason.

I laughed reading your last paragraph[lol] . Fulfilling the basic "want" is always the easiest. But, to meet what one "needs", is a luxury; The "Heart Vs Mind" debate starts.
 
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Voted for Abarth Punto as it is more unique in its nature with 145 bhp on tap to play with so it really stands out but should have been priced less and even though it lacks some basic features for the price it asks, still the scorpion and the colour scheme makes it stand out from the crowd.

Hope Fiat/abarth comes with a facelift of this version with some basic features and some throaty exhaust.
 
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.....
Some funny data from above:

  1. Between "Abarth and RS", a power difference of 13.4 bhp/Ton results in huge 0.93 seconds.
  2. Between "RS and GT TDI", a power diff of 11.6 bHP/Ton results in 0.02 seconds.
  3. Between "GT TDI and Figo TDCi Sports", a power diff of 0.8 bHP/Ton results in 0.28 seconds.
  4. Between "Figo TDCi Sports and GT TSI", a power diff of 0.3 bHP/Ton results in 0.3 seconds.
Complicated relationship... Thank God, I didn't study Mechanical Engineering [;)]......
Na, an Indian Mechanical/ Automobile Engineer will not understand it either as most of them have only solved bookish sums [lol](No offense but that's the truth).
There are 52 variables that determine a ICE vehicle performance and none of the variables have linear relationship. EVs are far, far simpler.
However you can at-least get the magnitude of relationship between the various cars listed here by getting the peak bhp*rpm figures (as was done in the other thread) . Assuming all power figures are in bhp (some websites list power in PS and yet some convert kW wrongly to bhp), we can see the following:
For Punto Abarth, Baleno RS,Polo GT TDI, Figo TDCi Sports and Polo GT TSI, the torque at peak bhp ( bhp*rpm/5252) in ft lb are 151.8469155, 106.8164509, 92.15536938, 70.6873572 and 99.96191927 respectively.
These, when converted to Nm (multiply by 1.35581795) gives difference of 61.05311218 Nm between Abarth and RS, 19.87775745 Nm between RS and GT TDI, 29.10671627 Nm between GT TDI and Figo TDCi Sports and 39.69097674 Nm Between Figo TDCi Sports and GT TSI. This to a large extent (after ignoring 50 odd variables!!) explains the difference.
 
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kkn13

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Voted for Abarth Punto as it is more unique in its nature with 145 bhp on tap to play with so it really stands out but should have been priced less and even though it lacks some basic features for the price it asks, still the scorpion and the colour scheme makes it stand out from the crowd.

Hope Fiat/abarth comes with a facelift of this version with some basic features and some throaty exhaust.
Id love to see a diesel version with 1.6 MJD , thatd really be something
 
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I was curious about these "RS, GT, etc" monikers and today I found out what they mean. In general, anything with “GT” or "RS" means that the Car Manufacturer intends the Model to be Sporty. Such cars could be real sporty or show some sporty aspirations.

Most Popular Badges:
RS: Rally Sport (Chevy, Ford, Audi, Porsche, Skoda, Maruti, etc)
GT: Gran Turismo --- Italian for "Grand Tourer"

GT Variants:
GTR: Gran Turismo Racer (Nissan) --- "Gran Turismo" is Italian for "Grand tourer"
GTS: Grand Turismo Sport (Porsche)
GTI: Grand Touring Injection (VW, Pegueot, Nissan, etc)
GTD: Diesel powered, with GT intentions

Some more monickers:
ST: Sport Technologies (Ford)
Type R: Racing (Honda)

Relevant to THIS Poll:
TDI - Turbocharged Direct Injection (VW)
TSI: Turbocharged Stratified Injection (VW)

Sources : Link1, Link2 and Link3

PS: Only 18 votes so far ! Surprising !! So many members discuss the 0-100 kph acceleration times in many threads and sooooooooo many potential buyers always are keen on acceleration times and the Turbo Kick !!! Then I found an Australian article dated May 2017 titled "Performance cars are pointless in this Country". Funny to read [lol] --- link
 
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A few observations:

1) Please update the tyres on the Polo GT , they now come in 195/55/R16. That makes quite a difference to the feel of the car. The steering is now quite heavy and is well calibrated dynamically. Improves the ground clearance too!

2) A lot of people have commented on the practicality of the hot hatches. As a GT TSI user, I must say that the assurance of available power is the best part of owning these cars. If I am ever caught in a tight situation , I can exploit the gap ahead with a burst of power available, usually shifting to Sport mode. Sometimes even just mashing the pedal causes instant shifts. This is something I cant do in any of the regular commuter hatches. In fact, the GT TSI particularly does it with ridiculous ease. A look at the in-gear acceleration of the Abarth Punto, Baleno RS and GT TSI shows the following:
20-80 kph:
GT TSI: 6.48s
Abarth Punto:9.48s
Baleno RS:10.44s

Similarly on the 40-100 kph run:
GT TSI: 8.1 sec
Abarth Punto: 13.55s
Baleno RS: 12.53s

Source: Autocar India test: .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6H1E4D4Zxw
 
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