Hatchbacks... But which one?


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@RSM: Looks are subjective. So be my guest if you think you can be all judgmental about what my opinion of the Punto is based on my assessment of its looks.

Coming to the challenge, I would love to take you up on that one. I own a Swift D and my friends Getz Crdi gives better FE. Want to know why? Better torque, better tune. Do check the figures of both cars to know what I am trying to point out to. A lower capacity, lowered powered engine will have to work that much more harder to maintain speeds working the engine overtime than a car that has more power & torque.

Its nice to praise the car you own, but at times we get all touchy and judgmental when someone comes along and criticizes certain bits of the car. There is nothing to get worked up about.

And yes, most of these cars are underpowered except for the i20 & Swift. The only saving grace for the Swift is its aggressive mapping, but that engine is horrendous past 3,200 rpm.

And yes, I am aware of the in-gear acceleration of the Punto. Which again is left lacking when compared to the other cars running the same engine, ala Swift, Ritz, Indica Vista etc. Feel free to correct me with some in-gear acceleration figures.

Swift, Indica, Polo, Ritz, Punto have nearly the same output. But yet there is a stark contrast in the way each of these cars move. I prefer calling a spade a spade, its upto you how you would like to interpret my posts.

PS: It has nothing with me driving fast/not. When I review cars I look at all aspects of it. And I am making a direct comparison after driving all of the above said cars back to back before I pass a judgment.

PS2: Last week dad got bored of the Swift D and wanted to sell it and buy another car. We checked out a few cars. What happened in the end? It was so disappointing to find out that there are no other cars one can *upgrade* from the Swift under 8L. So we decided to retain it. FYI, my dad is also a *normal driver*. Even he said, he rated the Puntos acceleration the last. And yes loves the way the Puntos ride quality and looks.

If I were in the market to buy a new car today given the requirements of the OP, it would have to be the Vista/Figo. Excellent VFM.
 
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Akash

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I would love to know the source of this info.
I own one Punto Diesel, I can guarantee the FE will be similar or better in the list in discussion.
I agree with RSM. I have never heard of FE issue from any of the Punto/Linea owner. In Fact, Punto Diesel is a fuel efficient hatch. I even know a guy whose Punto is giving a FE figure of 20-21kmpl on highway which is really great.
Even the Punto90Hp has a company claim of 20.2kmpl, though it has not been confirmed by any owner, but i wont be surprised if it gives the same.
 
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Swift D

City: 18kmpl with 60% AC. Car is always driven hard.
Highway: Last trip to Hubli dad got 20.xx kmpl driving between 120-140kmph with 100% AC on. Remember, 150kms is on bad roads. Usually on the way to Chennai I get ~24kmpl with AC on full time. Usually hovers around the 17-20kmpl mark if I am in a hurry to reach the destination.

Method: Full tank to full tank. Fuel filling stops at auto cut off.

We drive regularly together, (Getz guy & me) last trip we did to Chennai for the track day, he got some 23 kmpl while I got 20.6 kmpl on my Swift. Both driving at similar speeds and by no means is our driving sedate and slow.

Almost every shift is at 3,500 rpm. And we shift only when the power starts to drop. We would touch 160kmph from time to time and then back to cruising speeds of 130-140kmph.

Every time we drive together, the Getz eventually gets the best FE. The Verna is equally FE too.

And in all the runs we do together, its almost the Verna/Getz that top the FE charts while the Punto always comes last.

I usually never care about FE, I have a car that gives me 3kmpl on the highways. And the only time I ever take FE figures seriously is when all the cars are driven on the same day/time, same traffic conditions, similar driving styles. That is the ONLY way to compare FE between cars.

Anyone who is willing to test the same way, can join us on Friday/Saturday nights. We drive down to Krishnagiri CCD and usually tank up there and spend a few hours talking about cars etc over coffee. And check our FE figures just for fun.

PS: I can understand a car drinking more fuel if its relatively faster. But with the Punto, its slower than most other cars in that category and still drinks more fuel. Some food for thought that!

PS2: I hope you guys don't use that DTE/instantaneous FE meter to check your FE figures [;)]
 
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I get similar figure on my punto.
I get ~17KMPL in city (daily i drive 45KM) with 50-60%AC.
And highway it varies from 20-26KMPL, depending on different conditions.

I usually never care about FE, I have a car that gives me 3kmpl on the highways.
With your posts, it looks you care FE most than anythign else.
You always comparing FE of Punto. Had you got the chance to feel the steering of Punto (I am sure you will not have same feel with double the price of the cars).
Have you felt the handling on the corners of Punto. Swift handling is pathetic.
Have you used the features Punto provide, at its price, Maruti can't even think of it. Heck, Maruti doesn't have own small diesel engine. The engine is borrowed from FIAT.

But with the Punto, its slower than most other cars in that category and still drinks more fuel. Some food for thought that!
Can you can point me to any owner, who drove with you and got less mileage than your swift, in similar driving conditions? Don't give vague statements.

Being heavy car, it has its own advantages.
Japanese manufactureres/owners will not have an idea how heavy cars drives on highways. Fiat doesn't make toy car with toy feeling steering.


PS2: I hope you guys don't use that DTE/instantaneous FE meter to check your FE figures [;)]
Every kids on auto field, how to measure the correct FE figure.[;)]

Again, if you don't agree that Punto is better looking than Swift ( heck its the best looking hatch in indian roads), you won't understand the points i made.
Good that you are in blind love with Swift.

I don't want to comment on Getz FE. When you say Getz gives better FE than Swift, it doesn't need any discussion. Getz will never match Swift FE. Punto petrol might give better FE than Getz.

Let us leave this discussion here. We should not highjack aeonix thread.
Open some new thread and we can continue the discussion there.
 
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With your posts, it looks you care FE most than anythign else.
Obviously each time you get judgmental, you seem to be getting it WRONG.

You always comparing FE of Punto.
No, I just mentioned Punto is least FE in the cars mentioned here (backed by PROOF from SIAM figures and ARAI too if you had the patience to check). Which for some reason seems to have gotten you all worked up trying to defend your choice of car purchase.

Had you got the chance to feel the steering of Punto (I am sure you will not have same feel with double the price of the cars).
Yes, I love the steering of the Punto and yes, I think it has the best steering in the under 10L category in cars today.

But that is solely contributed to Fiat still using HPS whereas the rest of the world seems to focus on EPS for better and easier city driving. So your comparison is again a bit *flawed*. The Polo 1.6 which also comes with EHPS is not too far behind, but definitely these two cars have steering that is leagues ahead of the cars running EPS. I can't think of many other cars still running HPS to make a comparo.

Oh, did I mention at that price tag the interiors of the Punto are *atrocious*? Do post pics of your dash and steering wheel so that we can all have a look at the *panel gaps*. I call Swift a *rattle machine* (thanks to poor QC on the plastics) but the Punto plastics *look more pathetically put together*. I would love to see you prove me wrong on this one too.

Have you felt the handling on the corners of Punto. Swift handling is pathetic.
Do you have ANY clue about what you are talking? Puntos *ride quality* is the best in the class. Not handling (though it is a good handler). Out right handling the Swift will kick the Punto and some more. Lets stop making baseless comments now. Oh, just to clarify, Swift has *pathetic* ride quality thanks to its stiff suspension.

Have you used the features Punto provide, at its price, Maruti can't even think of it. Heck, Maruti doesn't have own small diesel engine.
Yes, I have. Some features I feel are over rated and novelty seems to wear off after a while. Its like giving a child a new RC car. He will play with it for 6 months and finally get bored of it. But if that is what you dig, suit yourself.

Also, Swift & Punto cater to different car buying segments. IIRC only the Punto Emotion PK comes loaded with all these *features* you keep talking about. And IIRC Swift costs some 2L cheaper.

I would compare the Punto MJD to the Polo Tdi. That is the only fair competition IMO. And I would pick the Polo. It does almost the same things as the Punto (minus Blue n Me) and is surely put together a lot better than the Punto.

The engine is borrowed from FIAT.
So? Its a joint venture that was chalked out between GM & Fiat if you didn't know. The engine was developed with expertize from Bosch who own IP rights for most common rail engine tech. Since GM has a stake in Suzuki, they are *legally entitled* to use the engine. The Fiat-GM merger failed, but the conditions were laid out that GMs cars could still use the engine on obtaining a license from Fiat.

Also, MSIL is *manufacturing* their own engines at their Manesar plant under *license* from Fiat and not buying them from Fiat. Also, IIRC, the Swift had the MJD engine long before Fiat put the same engine in its own cars in India. Food for thought again.

What is the point you are trying to make? That Tata/Suzuki do not have the tech? Or that they are just street smart to join hands with Fiat instead of spending millions of dollars on R&D to develop a new engine?

Anyways, thanks to Fiats attitude of not supplying the higher capacity MJD engines to Suzuki, Suzuki should soon be typing up with VW for its diesel engines. So lets see how that comes across.

FYI, Fiat ran away from India once. Second time, they had to tie up with Tata to stay afloat in India. Shows how good and reliable the company is [clap]

Its known FACT to the world that Maruti and Tata have managed to tune the MJD engine better than Fiat India themselves. Only the Fiat fanboys seem to miss the fact (for obvious reasons).

Can you can point me to any owner, who drove with you and got less mileage than your swift, in similar driving conditions? Don't give vague statements.
If you mean other cars other than a Punto? Then yes. Getz & Verna are more FE than my Swift, Indica Vista too.

If you are talking about the Punto, I would have sent you the link, if only he was a part of online forums. Unfortunately, he is least bit interested in wasting time online and joins us occasionally for these drives.

Why don't you join us on one of the drives and maybe we can set the record straight? I have a Swift, you have a Punto, I can get a Getz Crdi along as well.


Every kids on auto field, how to measure the correct FE figure.
Well, let me correct you again my friend. Apparently, not everyone. Majority still don't use the full tank-tank method. Why don't you start a thread here and see how members do it.
Again, if you don't agree that Punto is better looking than Swift ( heck its the best looking hatch in indian roads), you won't understand the points i made.
At the sake of repeating myself, looks are *subjective*. Could you google up the meaning for that word please? Infact, I don't like the looks of the Swift much. The best looking hatch IMO is the Polo, period.

Good that you are in blind love with Swift.
Lol, are you serious? Now that is a vague statement, totally baseless and flawed. Do look around for my *hatred* for the Swift on two other Indian automotive forums. I have made my displeasure quite clear about the car several times. Only reason I still drive it is because the car was bought for my family and I am not foolish to sell it and lose on re-sale.

When you say Getz gives better FE than Swift, it doesn't need any discussion. Getz will never match Swift FE. Punto petrol might give better FE than Getz.
Shows how limited your knowledge about engines and cars is. If anything, this thread has surely brought out how *blindly in love* you are with your Punto.

Open some new thread and we can continue the discussion there.
Mods, feel free to move this discussion to a new thread.

@RSM: Its nice to love your car, but not to be blinded by your love for it that you can't see the cons.
 
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hi Aeonix

Noticed this thread late.

Well your require a hatch with style and good fe ,

As you will be using it regular basis and mostly its city trip , i suggest you that you get a diesel hatch

a diesel hatch will have more torque , so will have a easy drive ability in the city.


Considereing the diesel hatch in market , i feel vista quadrajet and figo were best . Both are stylish and have good fe. I think the figo have some one to two figure more in fe.

though swift are good car , do not wait for over 6 months for that car!
 
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mclaren1885, I request you to abstain from further arguements on this thread, which is purely meant to help Dr Aeonix in his purchase. Any other discussions might be continued thru the PM route. [:)]
 

AMG

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@RSM:
1: Looks are subjective. So be my guest if you think you can be all judgmental about what my opinion of the Punto is based on my assessment of its looks.

2: Coming to the challenge, I would love to take you up on that one. I own a Swift D and my friends Getz Crdi gives better FE. Want to know why? Better torque, better tune. Do check the figures of both cars to know what I am trying to point out to. A lower capacity, lowered powered engine will have to work that much more harder to maintain speeds working the engine overtime than a car that has more power & torque.

3: Its nice to praise the car you own, but at times we get all touchy and judgmental when someone comes along and criticizes certain bits of the car. There is nothing to get worked up about.

4: And yes, most of these cars are underpowered except for the i20 & Swift. The only saving grace for the Swift is its aggressive mapping, but that engine is horrendous past 3,200 rpm.

5: And yes, I am aware of the in-gear acceleration of the Punto. Which again is left lacking when compared to the other cars running the same engine, ala Swift, Ritz, Indica Vista etc. Feel free to correct me with some in-gear acceleration figures.

6:Swift, Indica, Polo, Ritz, Punto have nearly the same output. But yet there is a stark contrast in the way each of these cars move. I prefer calling a spade a spade, its upto you how you would like to interpret my posts.

PS: It has nothing with me driving fast/not. When I review cars I look at all aspects of it. And I am making a direct comparison after driving all of the above said cars back to back before I pass a judgment.

PS2: Last week dad got bored of the Swift D and wanted to sell it and buy another car. We checked out a few cars. What happened in the end? It was so disappointing to find out that there are no other cars one can *upgrade* from the Swift under 8L. So we decided to retain it. FYI, my dad is also a *normal driver*. Even he said, he rated the Puntos acceleration the last. And yes loves the way the Puntos ride quality and looks.

7: If I were in the market to buy a new car today given the requirements of the OP, it would have to be the Vista/Figo. Excellent VFM.
1: punto looks bad? Thats the first time I have heard that. I feel swift looks really pathetic. Looks are personal choice, though.

2: Getz was and is a performance hatch. It gives bad FE. And better torque for more FE[lol]

3: +1

4: i20 is not underpowered[confused] It has one of the worst power to weight ratios and huge turbo lag. It finished last in Overdrive's test.

5:I really wonder what magazine you have seen for the ratios.
Vista has better than punto in-gear ration

6: +1 That is because of where the power is delivered in the powerband.

7: Vista is excellent VFM is the stupidest thing i have ever heard on this planet. Vista Aura +(ABS, Airbags) is just a few grand cheaper than Punto
 
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1: punto looks bad? Thats the first time I have heard that. I feel swift looks really pathetic. Looks are personal choice, though.
No, I never said Punto "looks bad". I said I don't dig its looks and thats that (is it that hard to comprehend?). Why do people have to get offended by it? And yes, I don't dig the looks of the Swift either (just prefer it to the Punto). I think Swift looks like an overbulged elephants ass from all the sides. While the Punto looks like a rats pointed nose. Just draw two big ears on the Punto to notice the similarities to a rat/mouses nose [lol]

IMO the best looking hatch is the Polo followed by i20. If you have different views, I respect them.

Getz was and is a performance hatch. It gives bad FE. And better torque for more FE
Lol, ignorance is bliss. I suggest you drive a Getz/Verna for extended periods, record their FE figures and report back your findings so that we can all have a clearer picture.

i20 is not underpowered[confused] It has one of the worst power to weight ratios and huge turbo lag.
For someone who drives quite a lot of fast cars, yes the I20 is underpowered for me. But not as much as the Swift/Polo/Punto/Figo. I have put up the power to weight ratio figures a few posts back, do look them up (I20 has 14.74ps/tonne more than its next best competition, the Swift). And which diesel hatch do you consider not underpowered? The Getz Crdi has a PTWR of 96.7ps/tonne. Which is 12 more than the i20, but you call the Getz a performance hatch but consider the i20 which is 14 ps/tonne better than its next competition to be underpowered? Some logic that!

It finished last in Overdrive's test.
The one where they went to Leh? By that logic, Ritz (which won the competition) is the best hatch to buy today? I don't remember seeing the Punto finish in the top 3 either or did it? Ritz won the competition, followed by the Fabia Tdi (iirc) and wasn't the 3rd car the ridiculously over priced Jazz?

I really wonder what magazine you have seen for the ratios.
Care to back up your statements with some figures? Here is some data from ACI I would like you to take a look at.

Swift 75hp
0-100:13.87secs
20-80(3rd):11.96
40-100(4th):14.72

Punto 90hp
0-100:16.21
20-80(3rd):13.97
40-100(4th):14.72

Well, we are comparing the 90HP to the Swifts 75HP here. Need I say more? And FYI, ACI & OD test these performance figures on a Racelogic Vbox which is probably the most accurate thing you can get your hands on to measure performance figures on the earth today.

7: Vista is excellent VFM is the stupidest thing i have ever heard on this planet. Vista Aura +(ABS, Airbags) is just a few grand cheaper than Punto
I don't know which land you live in, but where I live (read Bangalore) a Punto Emotion PK MJD costs 6,55,000 ex-showroom. While the Vista Quadrajet Aura + costs 5,51,645.00. I don't think 1L is a "few grand" cheaper.

You get acres of rear leg room for that. Excellent ride quality, decent interiors, loaded with safety features. Handling, steering feedback, looks is where the Punto scores over the Indica. But for a common man who is not interested in handling, steering feedback etc, the Indica seems a more *sensible* choice. And thus VFM because you save nearly 1.1L.

For the *enthusiast* you always have the Punto & Polo to choose from. i20 would be my 3rd choice. Thanks to the poor steering feedback and handling when compared to its European counterparts.

I don't think the OP here wants a *performance car* but a *sensible car* where comfort is his main criteria. Have you sat in the rear seat of a Punto? It has the most cramped rear cabin in its class, followed equally by the Swift & Polo.

PS: Mods, do move these posts to a new thread if necessary.
 

350Z

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Aeonix, I've not completely read your post yet but diesel variants of either a Ford Figo or Hyundai i20 does makes some sense. The names of upcoming cars you have mentioned are not expected to launch any soon before the end of this year, and as rightly pointed, there are already lots of hatchbacks to add in your confusion.

As for the others, Kindly refrain from making personal remarks which may not help topic starter by any way, Feel free to create new thread about same as long as the discussion is kept polite and healthy. Any further posts about same will be cleared.


Drive Safe,
350Z
 
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Aeonix, I’d recommend you to consider diesel variants of either a Ford Figo or Hyundai i20.
I would have to agree. If comfort and space is what you are looking at, Vista and i20 score high. Figo & Ritz are again excellent buys as well. They don't excel in any department (outrightly) as such, but they manage to do most things fairly decently making them more of an overall car. But do keep in mind that the ride is not as good as the Vista/Punto thanks to its moderately stiff suspension which is setup for better handling (incase of the Figo).
Also do look at ASS in your area when you are buying a car. It plays a vital role in hassle free experience.
 

Arun

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Now that almost all of us have unanimously stated that a diesel suits you,

Your options are:
Figo:
Get one minus the mehendi dash and you're fine!! Seeing a lot of Figos around.Roughly, that indicates sales are quite decent. So many people buying a new hatch is a good sign. Shows that the car is reliable.

i20:
According to me, the best looking hatch in the country after the Polo. Nice lines, nice engine. The red lights in the cabin won't haunt you no longer, it has been changed to blue. I believe the diesel is offered with a six-speed manual.

Swift:
Now, this thing sells like crazy. No matter what people say, the tag 'Maruti Suzuki' always creates a biased opinion in a layman's mind. The new Swift is probably due by Diwali considering it has already been launched in Japan. I'm attaching pics of the same since you asked for it.


Also, about the Fiesta hatch. I believe it has been spotted in India. Attaching a pic never the less.
 

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@Aeonix

 Top 5 priorities I need in my vehicle?
 Fuel efficiency (Easy on the wallet)
 Stylish Good looks (Make heads turn)
 Comfortable drive (Would be spending quite a lotta time in it)
 Spacious but cozy (should be able to fit in atleast 5 ppl)
 Power (Vroom Vroooooom)
First let me tell you one thing , i am also in the same boat as yours,
I am also planning a hatch and researching the market.
I am also planning on a diesel but running is not so much but i prefer diesel because sometimes my feet gets so heavy i get FE figures below 8kpl on petrol.
I am not making any comment on a car because i own it or probably going to own it.
It depends on findings done through various forums, websites and personal test drive.


Let me tell you ,u are not going to get all from your priority list.
Fuel efficiency (Easy on the wallet)
ill put down the list from my preference(only diesel)
swift>punto=polo=i20>figo.
it depends on you if you drive sedate you will get almost same figures from all the machines some +- 2
so give preference to others.
Stylish Good looks (Make heads turn)
This is purely subjective but ill write my preference , you go by your own choice or your families will be better.

punto>polo>i20>swift>ritz=figo.

Comfortable drive (Would be spending quite a lotta time in it)

as per my findings in test-drive
puntos suspension is goddamm good so is polo but punto handles better.
figo is also good but for the money you give i20 is the worst.
swift and ritz are average but good at that price point.

punto>polo>figo>swift=i20=ritz.

comfortable also includes handling and suspension driving dynamics altogether put up.
punto>polo=figo>swift>ritz>i20


Spacious but cozy (should be able to fit in atleast 5 ppl)
This is where every turns upside down.
no premium cars give enough space for five.. its difficult to fit 3 at back if they are well built.

According to rear leg room for my height(5,11'')
front seat adjusted to my height at sitting at the back.
Figo>>i20>punto>ritz>swift>polo.

Power (Vroom Vroooooom)
This again comes as per your requirement you race around
ill get into 2 types
>Move first out of traffic lights ,zip around city,without much topend power
>Move around casually in city ,happy cruising on highways with good topend.

first one
figo>polo>i20>swift>ritz>punto

Second
punto>swift>i20>ritz=polo>figo


Ill add another one the A.S.S
Swift=ritz>i20>figo=polo=punto.
 
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