I had this shuddering(not very much of a jerking, precisely) in my Petrol Esteem Vxi, 2005.
Initial background:-
Paid service was done at MASS, around 2 months (Less than 1K, km)ago. But, I doubt if it was done sincerely. And after the Mandovi Motors, Bangalore (Baleno RS) incident, I too am almost sure that it was nothing but just a wash and return for me.
Anyways, I had done a good amount of DIY stuff on it, last month, which included cleaning the engine bay, sorting out electrical inside the cabin and trunk area (I removed almost more than half a dozen of bypass wires and restored the original connections) and covering them with protective materials, serviced the door locks and handles (Now they are butter smooth and snapping like camera shutter), installing door handle lights and getting a look of many of the hidden parts.
My issue:-
During this electrical cleaning, I started my car to get some charge on the battery. There was initially some sound from the exhaust tip and increased vibrations at the muffler tip, with a little bit of smell(The one that we get when we start the car in cold morning and after long standing). I thought it was due to exhaust pipe leak, as it was rusted(During recent service I had seen the rusted Cat-Con Casing and the mechanic applied M-seal for temporary sealing of the leak and asked me to get it replaced in coming time) and after some time of engine running, I got back to my DIY.
After completing my task, I was getting my car ready for a long trip in the Diwali vacation, but this shuddering problem was still persistent. After taking a short drive, I even noticed that there was loss of power (In fact, the car almost refused to accelerate in the 4th gear).
Apart from the shuddering, power loss, exhaust vibration, smell, there wasn't any other significant issue (though this itself could be a BIG issue![[confused]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Confused.gif "Confused [confused]")
) and there was no Check Engine light signal.
My troubleshooting: -
After a lot of net surfing, I found that there could be various reasons for this and thus started ruling out few of them with my own tools.
I changed the Air filter (Original Purolator-Rs245 only)
Manually checked the EGR valve and it wasn't stuck and was moving in and out too.
Fuel Injectors:- Applied a long screwdriver to each injector and I could hear clicking sound, equally spaced in all the 4. Resistance across the injectors was also between 14.5 to 14.8 ohms and battery voltage was 12+ volts. The only thing that I could not satisfactorily check was the pulse across the injectors.
I didn't have the spark plug socket to take it out and inspect.
Anyways, with little things left in my hands, I decided to take it to some scan center (As, it wasn't scanned in a long time) and sort out this issue.
At Service center:-
I took it to a dealer service center this time. (During my initial time, I had decided not to go there, as there are a lot of free service crowding and chances are high that there would be negligence and ripping off for unnecessary stuffs)
There, they checked it and found some leak still persistent from the exhaust Cat-Con. They suggested a tune up, throttle body and fuel injectors cleaning and I asked them to do the scanning also. In fact, that was my basic purpose of bringing the vehicle to this center.
However, the SA quoted Rs 3250 for the throttle body and injector cleaning and I decided to put it on hold and continue with the scan first and if any error code is showing up, then we can deal accordingly.
The tune up job was going on and he examined the spark plugs and said that they are spoiled and thus replaced with MGP (Champion, Rs.60 each).
But to my surprise, the SA came to me and said that he could not open the job card in the system, as there is no entry of this vehicle in the centralized Maruti system.
I told him that I had been to almost 3 different MASS's before and have printed bills too(Didn't carry with me though). And I learned a altogether new thing that these so called MASS are not interlinked with each other or even with the main Maruti system. The records are limited with the individual MASS and we cannot get all the service history of various MASS visits from a single service center. But, the worrying part was that my car details were not in the system (This is a 12 year old car and no records showing up with any details, like engine no, chasis no, reg no, etc.). So he took a Xerox copy of my RC book and said that they will have to mail it to Maruti to make entry of my car for future references as well as to get me a bill for this visit too.
Phew, coming back to issue. The mechanic scanned the vehicle (I'm not sure, if he was confident about the result or if he knew the exact procedure to be followed with the scanning machine). I was vigilant and could not see any error codes popping up.
But, he proceeded for Throttle body cleaning to which I objected and told him that I had not agreed for it. I asked him about what he understood from the scan results. He fumbled a bit and said that it is showing some IC(or may be SC) sensor error and would need throttle body cleaning. But, after my few questions, he decided to consult the technical Advisor and/or may be take a test ride first and then decide on further proceedings and I was happy to hear that. The TA rescanned the vehicle and told me that everything seems fine with the car and all sensors are working in their limits and there is no obvious signs of malfunctioning. Happiness was increased.
We went for a test drive and banggg, almost 80-90 % of the issue seemed to be taken care of. (10-20% exhaust leak element was still persistent). Happiness was 3 fold.![[clap]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Clap.gif "Clap [clap]")
He only asked me to get the clutch job done, as it was weak and I have heard it from many others too...so next task in queue is Clutch job.
Solution :-
So the culprit can be considered to be the spark plug and just replacing them, solved my issue to a satisfactory extent.
Now My BUNCH of queries:-
1) Do we get a receipt of the scan results? because, they didn't provide me any.
2) Was it the spoiled spark plug, that was worrying me? Or is it just a consequence of something else?
I mean, could the problem be lying elsewhere, as a result of which the spark plugs spoiled and in turn, gave me physical symptoms of shuddering and others?
3)Were the charges of Rs.3250, correct for my Petrol esteem throttle and fuel injector cleaning? (Last year I had cleaned the throttle body at a MASS for some Rs.950 and I hear from a lot of EXPERTS in various forums, that even these charges are a bit high, as it is merely a job of 1 to 1.5 hours and the hourly labour charges at MASS are Rs.330.)
4) Could there be difference in charges for the same procedures across various MASS?
5) Is it possible that there could be no records available for a 12 year old legitimate, single owner vehicle?
6) Should I replace only the Cat-Con segment of exhaust, or replace the entire assembly? Cost of MGP or any other good alternatives? I enquired in a spares shop and he quoted Rs 750 for the replacement segment (Non MGP, but good quality stuff) Since, it is the Cat Con segment, I'm bit concerned, as it an important part in exhaust and local makes could be mischievous.
7) Clutch overhaul suggestion? MASS or a reliable outside garage? Costs? I enquired at MASS and they quoted close to Rs 8000(They replace everything and do not reuse any of old parts) and the outside guy told me that his labour would be 2k and rest is the expenditure on materials like Clutch assembly (Rs.2400), Bearing, Oil, etc.
What all is actually required for a clutch job, please highlight?
Thanks for reading this long message and please help me with my queries.
Damodar
Initial background:-
Paid service was done at MASS, around 2 months (Less than 1K, km)ago. But, I doubt if it was done sincerely. And after the Mandovi Motors, Bangalore (Baleno RS) incident, I too am almost sure that it was nothing but just a wash and return for me.
Anyways, I had done a good amount of DIY stuff on it, last month, which included cleaning the engine bay, sorting out electrical inside the cabin and trunk area (I removed almost more than half a dozen of bypass wires and restored the original connections) and covering them with protective materials, serviced the door locks and handles (Now they are butter smooth and snapping like camera shutter), installing door handle lights and getting a look of many of the hidden parts.
My issue:-
During this electrical cleaning, I started my car to get some charge on the battery. There was initially some sound from the exhaust tip and increased vibrations at the muffler tip, with a little bit of smell(The one that we get when we start the car in cold morning and after long standing). I thought it was due to exhaust pipe leak, as it was rusted(During recent service I had seen the rusted Cat-Con Casing and the mechanic applied M-seal for temporary sealing of the leak and asked me to get it replaced in coming time) and after some time of engine running, I got back to my DIY.
After completing my task, I was getting my car ready for a long trip in the Diwali vacation, but this shuddering problem was still persistent. After taking a short drive, I even noticed that there was loss of power (In fact, the car almost refused to accelerate in the 4th gear).
Apart from the shuddering, power loss, exhaust vibration, smell, there wasn't any other significant issue (though this itself could be a BIG issue
) and there was no Check Engine light signal.My troubleshooting: -
After a lot of net surfing, I found that there could be various reasons for this and thus started ruling out few of them with my own tools.
I changed the Air filter (Original Purolator-Rs245 only)
Manually checked the EGR valve and it wasn't stuck and was moving in and out too.
Fuel Injectors:- Applied a long screwdriver to each injector and I could hear clicking sound, equally spaced in all the 4. Resistance across the injectors was also between 14.5 to 14.8 ohms and battery voltage was 12+ volts. The only thing that I could not satisfactorily check was the pulse across the injectors.
I didn't have the spark plug socket to take it out and inspect.
Anyways, with little things left in my hands, I decided to take it to some scan center (As, it wasn't scanned in a long time) and sort out this issue.
At Service center:-
I took it to a dealer service center this time. (During my initial time, I had decided not to go there, as there are a lot of free service crowding and chances are high that there would be negligence and ripping off for unnecessary stuffs)
There, they checked it and found some leak still persistent from the exhaust Cat-Con. They suggested a tune up, throttle body and fuel injectors cleaning and I asked them to do the scanning also. In fact, that was my basic purpose of bringing the vehicle to this center.
However, the SA quoted Rs 3250 for the throttle body and injector cleaning and I decided to put it on hold and continue with the scan first and if any error code is showing up, then we can deal accordingly.
The tune up job was going on and he examined the spark plugs and said that they are spoiled and thus replaced with MGP (Champion, Rs.60 each).
But to my surprise, the SA came to me and said that he could not open the job card in the system, as there is no entry of this vehicle in the centralized Maruti system.
I told him that I had been to almost 3 different MASS's before and have printed bills too(Didn't carry with me though). And I learned a altogether new thing that these so called MASS are not interlinked with each other or even with the main Maruti system. The records are limited with the individual MASS and we cannot get all the service history of various MASS visits from a single service center. But, the worrying part was that my car details were not in the system (This is a 12 year old car and no records showing up with any details, like engine no, chasis no, reg no, etc.). So he took a Xerox copy of my RC book and said that they will have to mail it to Maruti to make entry of my car for future references as well as to get me a bill for this visit too.
Phew, coming back to issue. The mechanic scanned the vehicle (I'm not sure, if he was confident about the result or if he knew the exact procedure to be followed with the scanning machine). I was vigilant and could not see any error codes popping up.
But, he proceeded for Throttle body cleaning to which I objected and told him that I had not agreed for it. I asked him about what he understood from the scan results. He fumbled a bit and said that it is showing some IC(or may be SC) sensor error and would need throttle body cleaning. But, after my few questions, he decided to consult the technical Advisor and/or may be take a test ride first and then decide on further proceedings and I was happy to hear that. The TA rescanned the vehicle and told me that everything seems fine with the car and all sensors are working in their limits and there is no obvious signs of malfunctioning. Happiness was increased.
We went for a test drive and banggg, almost 80-90 % of the issue seemed to be taken care of. (10-20% exhaust leak element was still persistent). Happiness was 3 fold.
He only asked me to get the clutch job done, as it was weak and I have heard it from many others too...so next task in queue is Clutch job.
Solution :-
So the culprit can be considered to be the spark plug and just replacing them, solved my issue to a satisfactory extent.
Now My BUNCH of queries:-
1) Do we get a receipt of the scan results? because, they didn't provide me any.
2) Was it the spoiled spark plug, that was worrying me? Or is it just a consequence of something else?
I mean, could the problem be lying elsewhere, as a result of which the spark plugs spoiled and in turn, gave me physical symptoms of shuddering and others?
3)Were the charges of Rs.3250, correct for my Petrol esteem throttle and fuel injector cleaning? (Last year I had cleaned the throttle body at a MASS for some Rs.950 and I hear from a lot of EXPERTS in various forums, that even these charges are a bit high, as it is merely a job of 1 to 1.5 hours and the hourly labour charges at MASS are Rs.330.)
4) Could there be difference in charges for the same procedures across various MASS?
5) Is it possible that there could be no records available for a 12 year old legitimate, single owner vehicle?
6) Should I replace only the Cat-Con segment of exhaust, or replace the entire assembly? Cost of MGP or any other good alternatives? I enquired in a spares shop and he quoted Rs 750 for the replacement segment (Non MGP, but good quality stuff) Since, it is the Cat Con segment, I'm bit concerned, as it an important part in exhaust and local makes could be mischievous.
7) Clutch overhaul suggestion? MASS or a reliable outside garage? Costs? I enquired at MASS and they quoted close to Rs 8000(They replace everything and do not reuse any of old parts) and the outside guy told me that his labour would be 2k and rest is the expenditure on materials like Clutch assembly (Rs.2400), Bearing, Oil, etc.
What all is actually required for a clutch job, please highlight?
Thanks for reading this long message and please help me with my queries.
Damodar