Re: My Manza Aura ABS QJet - Truly a Breed Apart
finally work is completed .
finally work is completed .
Brand New Tata Indigo Manza Pulling To Left
- Thread Starter gypsy
- Start date
Thread Starter
#17
Re: My Manza Aura ABS QJet - Truly a Breed Apart
Ok here is the video for all to believe that the car actually moves straight now.
YouTube - manza misalignmnet corrected after strut suspension changed‏
Had a meeting at oberoi motors noida where all the attempts were made to sort out the problem but could not solve. Yesterday Mr. Rajgoplan GM of Oberai motors had called me to know how the problem has been sorted out I gave him a brief description he asked me to get the car for alignment checking so they can just be sure that nothing is abnormal.
I went there at 11.30 & met the Tata csm Ms Sumedha whom I asked if I can have the official version of the finding so we can conclude the matter but she too 1st wanted to know how the problem has been sorted out so I briefed her about the workshop & the method they used to find the faulty strut. I asked
her to accompany me on an official test drive so either we conclude that tata manza can drive straight or we conclude to their old stance that due to road camber manza will go straight for 20-30 mts only then will pull to left.
She suggested that before we move out on a test drive we should at least take the alignment reading on the same machine.
Car was taken to the platform reading taken Toe value showed out of the range, that confused her how can a car be moving straight if these values are out, so the car was taken off & reloaded on to the platform just to test the repeatability of the alignment machine, total 4 times this test was done & she
asked & even I wondered why is the machine not giving the same results every time the car is mounted on the platform.
The DET confirmed that slight variation will always be there but it should not go off the limits, I was surprised with this findings bcoz before 16th june this very alignment machine was checked for calibration & only then I took the car there as it was confirmed that the Alge alignment machine is now calibrated.
Is this a expected behiviour of a machine?
its like you measure 1 kg iron in Bangalore its 1kg & you measure the same 1kg iron in Jaipur it becomes 960gms then you measure the same 1kg iron in Delhi it becomes 1080gms. How could that be possible?
Now after being aware of alignmnet values out of range I took the tata team (Mr. Rajgoplan, Ms Sumedha, DET Oberai motors & myself) for a test drive, DET who has been attending the car started the drive & after 15kms he confirmed that yes the problem has been quite reduced & car fairly is moving
straight to quite some distance, I took over from there & then drove another 30 kms round trip from Pari chowk on greater noida expressway.
I drove at 80kmph car went almost straight on the road with slight left pull then we approached the speeds of 100-120 where I again pointed towards the steering left / right roll & then hit teh straight road patch starting from sector 93 car perfectly moved almost a km with 4 people loaded took the car to 120+kmph car moved straight but left pull becomes evident due to steering vibration.
Right before pari chowk almost 5kms road is perfect straight & had a best of the drive at 90-100kmph all were convinced that YES the manza can go straight & was quite evident to all of the tata members, remember they had witnessed the left pulling on the very same roads too.
I gave the car to Ms Sumedha so she herself can feel the straight driving & she drove at 80kmph & yes the car moved straight she felt the steering wobble at 100kmph but the DET says this is due to the roads & its normal I again disagree to this behaviour but I am ready to drive another 1000kms so the tyre can set according to the road camber then it might improve.
At last Mr Rajgoplan himself drove the car 80-100kmph & car remained straight in the lane they all agreed that in spite the toe in values shown out the car happily moves straight for quite a distance. Now the unanswered question remained that how is the car going straight when the values of toe in shows out?
We came back to the workshop & Mr. Rajgoplan said that the strut is not even covered under warranty, so how come the workshop changed it, none of the tata team present with me has ever heard of "Gurgaon Car scanners" they confirmed from me twice about the name & I then told them that best is to check the car history from their Tata CSM network, they took the printout & yes they got all the details of the work done at Gurgaon car scanners.
Not convinced with the alignment reports Ms Sumedha wanted to change it to default which I refused as of now & told here that let it run for another 1000kms then we will see if there is any abnormal tyre wear, her concern was exactly that if the report is showing it out it might create other problem later on hence she wanted to redo the alignment as per the recommended values, but as of now she took photos of the 4 tyre so we can match after 1000kms run.
The meeting remained inconclusive bcoz the test drive shows straight moving car (4 people tested) but alignment reports show toe in out of range, so how is then the car moving straight remains a mystery to them hence there is no official version from Tata motors to my question,
"Can manza drive straight or not?"
Here are the 3 alignment reports can anyone find a fault in these numbers?
Ok here is the video for all to believe that the car actually moves straight now.
YouTube - manza misalignmnet corrected after strut suspension changed‏
Had a meeting at oberoi motors noida where all the attempts were made to sort out the problem but could not solve. Yesterday Mr. Rajgoplan GM of Oberai motors had called me to know how the problem has been sorted out I gave him a brief description he asked me to get the car for alignment checking so they can just be sure that nothing is abnormal.
I went there at 11.30 & met the Tata csm Ms Sumedha whom I asked if I can have the official version of the finding so we can conclude the matter but she too 1st wanted to know how the problem has been sorted out so I briefed her about the workshop & the method they used to find the faulty strut. I asked
her to accompany me on an official test drive so either we conclude that tata manza can drive straight or we conclude to their old stance that due to road camber manza will go straight for 20-30 mts only then will pull to left.
She suggested that before we move out on a test drive we should at least take the alignment reading on the same machine.
Car was taken to the platform reading taken Toe value showed out of the range, that confused her how can a car be moving straight if these values are out, so the car was taken off & reloaded on to the platform just to test the repeatability of the alignment machine, total 4 times this test was done & she
asked & even I wondered why is the machine not giving the same results every time the car is mounted on the platform.
The DET confirmed that slight variation will always be there but it should not go off the limits, I was surprised with this findings bcoz before 16th june this very alignment machine was checked for calibration & only then I took the car there as it was confirmed that the Alge alignment machine is now calibrated.
Is this a expected behiviour of a machine?
its like you measure 1 kg iron in Bangalore its 1kg & you measure the same 1kg iron in Jaipur it becomes 960gms then you measure the same 1kg iron in Delhi it becomes 1080gms. How could that be possible?
Now after being aware of alignmnet values out of range I took the tata team (Mr. Rajgoplan, Ms Sumedha, DET Oberai motors & myself) for a test drive, DET who has been attending the car started the drive & after 15kms he confirmed that yes the problem has been quite reduced & car fairly is moving
straight to quite some distance, I took over from there & then drove another 30 kms round trip from Pari chowk on greater noida expressway.
I drove at 80kmph car went almost straight on the road with slight left pull then we approached the speeds of 100-120 where I again pointed towards the steering left / right roll & then hit teh straight road patch starting from sector 93 car perfectly moved almost a km with 4 people loaded took the car to 120+kmph car moved straight but left pull becomes evident due to steering vibration.
Right before pari chowk almost 5kms road is perfect straight & had a best of the drive at 90-100kmph all were convinced that YES the manza can go straight & was quite evident to all of the tata members, remember they had witnessed the left pulling on the very same roads too.
I gave the car to Ms Sumedha so she herself can feel the straight driving & she drove at 80kmph & yes the car moved straight she felt the steering wobble at 100kmph but the DET says this is due to the roads & its normal I again disagree to this behaviour but I am ready to drive another 1000kms so the tyre can set according to the road camber then it might improve.
At last Mr Rajgoplan himself drove the car 80-100kmph & car remained straight in the lane they all agreed that in spite the toe in values shown out the car happily moves straight for quite a distance. Now the unanswered question remained that how is the car going straight when the values of toe in shows out?
We came back to the workshop & Mr. Rajgoplan said that the strut is not even covered under warranty, so how come the workshop changed it, none of the tata team present with me has ever heard of "Gurgaon Car scanners" they confirmed from me twice about the name & I then told them that best is to check the car history from their Tata CSM network, they took the printout & yes they got all the details of the work done at Gurgaon car scanners.
Not convinced with the alignment reports Ms Sumedha wanted to change it to default which I refused as of now & told here that let it run for another 1000kms then we will see if there is any abnormal tyre wear, her concern was exactly that if the report is showing it out it might create other problem later on hence she wanted to redo the alignment as per the recommended values, but as of now she took photos of the 4 tyre so we can match after 1000kms run.
The meeting remained inconclusive bcoz the test drive shows straight moving car (4 people tested) but alignment reports show toe in out of range, so how is then the car moving straight remains a mystery to them hence there is no official version from Tata motors to my question,
"Can manza drive straight or not?"
Here are the 3 alignment reports can anyone find a fault in these numbers?
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Re: My Manza Aura ABS QJet - Truly a Breed Apart
Find an old ambassador mechanic. who align with the help of threads on a flat road.
Find an old ambassador mechanic. who align with the help of threads on a flat road.
Thread Starter
#19
Thread Starter
#21
Re: My Manza Aura ABS QJet - Truly a Breed Apart
Umang, I hope the balance 10% problem also gets solved.
Tata motor is yet to conclude if my manza is aligned properly or not I took the reports to Mr. Achin Juneja & he is clearly seeing errors in rear wheel alignment is out by 1.55° this has been constant red in most of the reports but somehow the car perfectly moves straight, I tested today on 120kms drive part of it was on cemented road the car was almost moving straight.
Steering wobble is happening even on cement road which does not have any rough patch & are newly built for common wealth games last year.
Either tata motors has been careless that they never tested the part before sending to Assembly line, nor did they check after the car was made & further they are still confused now what to conclude. It could be a case that they have wrong alignment values for manza & hence all manza pull to left.
@gypsy, congrats buddy! after so much tension and problem your problem is solved..hope you enjoy in future with manza..![[thumbsup]](https://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/images/smilies/Thumbs%20Up.png "Thumbs Up [thumbsup]")
Tata motor is yet to conclude if my manza is aligned properly or not I took the reports to Mr. Achin Juneja & he is clearly seeing errors in rear wheel alignment is out by 1.55° this has been constant red in most of the reports but somehow the car perfectly moves straight, I tested today on 120kms drive part of it was on cemented road the car was almost moving straight.
Steering wobble is happening even on cement road which does not have any rough patch & are newly built for common wealth games last year.
Either tata motors has been careless that they never tested the part before sending to Assembly line, nor did they check after the car was made & further they are still confused now what to conclude. It could be a case that they have wrong alignment values for manza & hence all manza pull to left.
Thread Starter
#22
Re: My Manza Aura ABS QJet - Truly a Breed Apart
On discussing reports & our findings on 29th june 2011 with Mr Achin Juneja his observation is as follows
To me it seems the TML workshops are indeed aligning the values given to them by TML but they are not able to check if the wheels are indeed getting aligned or not, the results of 7 manza tested show they are not getting aligned hence all manza pulled to left on fairly straight roads.
I have emailed these questions & answers to the question by Tata motors is expected to solve the problem which has been lingering on over 45 days now.
On discussing reports & our findings on 29th june 2011 with Mr Achin Juneja his observation is as follows
To me it seems the TML workshops are indeed aligning the values given to them by TML but they are not able to check if the wheels are indeed getting aligned or not, the results of 7 manza tested show they are not getting aligned hence all manza pulled to left on fairly straight roads.
I have emailed these questions & answers to the question by Tata motors is expected to solve the problem which has been lingering on over 45 days now.
Re: My Manza Aura ABS QJet - Truly a Breed Apart
@ gypsy
BTW, Hope you have resolved all the problems with your Manza and are enjoying the drive. Have you taken it out for any long drive lately?
@ gypsy
BTW, Hope you have resolved all the problems with your Manza and are enjoying the drive. Have you taken it out for any long drive lately?
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Thread Starter
#24
Re: My Manza Aura ABS QJet - Truly a Breed Apart
Manza left pulling problem remains unresolved, a lot of effort has been done its a long story which I have not updated on this forum but all efforts have failed. I have driven 17 manza they all pull to left, 11 of them were brand new car 6 of them older cars.
I had not been doing any work for 62 days so getting back to work become prime importance & I left the problems for a while & have been busy with work & have driven now 7500 on odometer.
Its not just my manza but others manza also have the same issue & no solution from Tata Motors.
Manza left pulling problem remains unresolved, a lot of effort has been done its a long story which I have not updated on this forum but all efforts have failed. I have driven 17 manza they all pull to left, 11 of them were brand new car 6 of them older cars.
I had not been doing any work for 62 days so getting back to work become prime importance & I left the problems for a while & have been busy with work & have driven now 7500 on odometer.
Its not just my manza but others manza also have the same issue & no solution from Tata Motors.
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Thread Starter
#25
Re: My Manza Aura ABS QJet - Truly a Breed Apart
We were at that high speed and covered 1700 km in 23 hours non stop (Only lunch, dinner, tea and diesel filling breaks in between)
It's sad that you are facing a left pulling problem.
I have not found this problem in my car or other Manzas so far.
Infact, after reading your post last time, I was testing this for a few days while going to office and I could not find any issue. One day I was able to button my shirts with both hands while negotiating a humb and then continue for some more time with hands off the steering and still it was moving in straight line.
We were at that high speed and covered 1700 km in 23 hours non stop (Only lunch, dinner, tea and diesel filling breaks in between)
It's sad that you are facing a left pulling problem.
I have not found this problem in my car or other Manzas so far.
Infact, after reading your post last time, I was testing this for a few days while going to office and I could not find any issue. One day I was able to button my shirts with both hands while negotiating a humb and then continue for some more time with hands off the steering and still it was moving in straight line.
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Re: My Manza Aura ABS QJet - Truly a Breed Apart
@ Gypsy
I fail to understand the connection between your left drifting problem and driving high speed. When we drive high speed we should always hold the steering, at least I always do that. Even if your manza drifts to left hands off, how does it behave hands on? Does the steering wheel require to be constantly held towards the right with pressure to keep it going straight? (not sure how to put it). Do you have to constantly keep pulling the steering wheel to the right?
I have driven my Manza at high speed and found handling the car fun.
@ Gypsy
I fail to understand the connection between your left drifting problem and driving high speed. When we drive high speed we should always hold the steering, at least I always do that. Even if your manza drifts to left hands off, how does it behave hands on? Does the steering wheel require to be constantly held towards the right with pressure to keep it going straight? (not sure how to put it). Do you have to constantly keep pulling the steering wheel to the right?
I have driven my Manza at high speed and found handling the car fun.
Thread Starter
#28
Re: My Manza Aura ABS QJet - Truly a Breed Apart
Its difficult for anyone to understand the best way is to drive a left pulling manza only then someone can feel it. A left pulling car can easily meet a fatal accident on expressway specially when driving on high speed, its more difficult to control the left pulling on higher speed since the steering starts vibrating too much.
Initial days the car would always be going to left so I would have keep constant pressure on right side by holding it. That made my shoulder pain due to strain.
Contrary to belief on high speed a car will move straight for longer distance due to momentum build up, if you have to test car left pulling ideally test is at @60 in 4th gear or 40 in 3rd gear, the car should steer straight if its aligned correctly mine was not doing that, its much better now after all those hit & trials by tata motors.
Hands on, at speed higher than 90-100 steering starts vibrating at 120 -140 it vibrates a lot I have never yet tried going 140 & the vibration will be too much to handle. I drove a new manza which was the only manza which had no left pulling problem & that was driven at 140kmph & zero vibration & no left pulling but they cant fix my car like that.
I use to drive my 2002 Indica before this & higher speed & indeed it was fun never felt the strain this manza has been giving me.
Last few test done along with tata officials has taught me that fixing this problem in workshop is not going to be an easy task as local CSM who are assigned the job were only doing hit & trial method, car is not pulling to left that much as it was doing initially but if I get the default values which the manual has mentioned the car pulls left, if I set the camber to negative (manza default is +0°30'min positive camber ) the car will move straight but the alignment is now actually set wrong.
Now it will tread the tyre from 1 side abnormally,I have met 7 manza users whose car are old they had the left pulling problem they reported to tata & band aid solution of negative camber was applied & they felt the problem is solved, later few months within 20000 kms they had to change the tyre. So you see there is no solution to it to solve the problem they create a hidden problem which you cant catch unless you take the car to an outside alignment & get the real values for your wheel alignment.
Its difficult for anyone to understand the best way is to drive a left pulling manza only then someone can feel it. A left pulling car can easily meet a fatal accident on expressway specially when driving on high speed, its more difficult to control the left pulling on higher speed since the steering starts vibrating too much.
Initial days the car would always be going to left so I would have keep constant pressure on right side by holding it. That made my shoulder pain due to strain.
Contrary to belief on high speed a car will move straight for longer distance due to momentum build up, if you have to test car left pulling ideally test is at @60 in 4th gear or 40 in 3rd gear, the car should steer straight if its aligned correctly mine was not doing that, its much better now after all those hit & trials by tata motors.
Hands on, at speed higher than 90-100 steering starts vibrating at 120 -140 it vibrates a lot I have never yet tried going 140 & the vibration will be too much to handle. I drove a new manza which was the only manza which had no left pulling problem & that was driven at 140kmph & zero vibration & no left pulling but they cant fix my car like that.
I use to drive my 2002 Indica before this & higher speed & indeed it was fun never felt the strain this manza has been giving me.
Last few test done along with tata officials has taught me that fixing this problem in workshop is not going to be an easy task as local CSM who are assigned the job were only doing hit & trial method, car is not pulling to left that much as it was doing initially but if I get the default values which the manual has mentioned the car pulls left, if I set the camber to negative (manza default is +0°30'min positive camber ) the car will move straight but the alignment is now actually set wrong.
Now it will tread the tyre from 1 side abnormally,I have met 7 manza users whose car are old they had the left pulling problem they reported to tata & band aid solution of negative camber was applied & they felt the problem is solved, later few months within 20000 kms they had to change the tyre. So you see there is no solution to it to solve the problem they create a hidden problem which you cant catch unless you take the car to an outside alignment & get the real values for your wheel alignment.
Re: My Manza Aura ABS QJet - Truly a Breed Apart
@ gypsy
My apologies. I didn't gauge the magnitude of your problem. You really have a big problem. My 97 model zen used to pull to the left a little after I had used it for 6 years. But I didn't find it a bother and I was driving it normally in city and highway, till I bought another new Zen in 2004. Never had steering vibration or shake. You should seriously consider consumer court.
@ gypsy
My apologies. I didn't gauge the magnitude of your problem. You really have a big problem. My 97 model zen used to pull to the left a little after I had used it for 6 years. But I didn't find it a bother and I was driving it normally in city and highway, till I bought another new Zen in 2004. Never had steering vibration or shake. You should seriously consider consumer court.
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Drive Safe,
350Z
Drive Safe,
350Z