Brand New Tata Indigo Manza Pulling To Left


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YouTube - ‪Tata Manza left drifting- misalignment problem with a brand new car.‬‏
Guys I have shot a video of my manza left drifting problem, Can you please suggest is this a Tyre burn in problem which will go away by time?

To me it seems a major alignment issue but twice the workshop people check aligment & say that its perfectly fine, there got to be an issue somewhere.

Thanks mastersquall,
I will follow you suggestion & go to some good alignment workshop in Delhi. Have a look at the video & give me your comments.
 
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Re: My Manza Aura ABS QJet - Truly a Breed Apart

Yes even i also think the problem is with the alignment but alignment issues in a new car is unacceptable! I faced this problem in my Verna but after alignment , the issue was resolved.
 
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Re: My Manza Aura ABS QJet - Truly a Breed Apart

I went for the alignment, spoke to the technician over there & showed him the video, he smiled & said this is minor problem but will need some extra time & has asked me to come tomorrow afternoon during his lunch hour so he can devote extra time & he said confidently that this is going to be perfect.

His smile caught my attention & I asked him the reason of this typical smile to which he said you are not the 1st Manza owner complaining about this problem, he said that you have done a great job by shooting a video which clearly shows the problem.

Yesterday I posted the video on tata manza facebook wall & surprisingly have received many emails from other manza owners facing similar issues via facebook.

Here are the links.
https://www.facebook.com/IndigoManza

direct link to the facebook wall post
https://www.facebook.com/IndigoManza/posts/171072462952929

I just cant believe Tata motors can be so careless to pass on misaligned cars & the dealer who is suppose to do the PDI & hand over a perfect cars pass on the same to customers & then service advisers just say the usual thing, "Sir we have done the job", and the problem remains as it is for the car owners.

Just need to wait for next few hours till I get the alignment checked.
 
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350Z

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Re: My Manza Aura ABS QJet - Truly a Breed Apart

Thankfully techs at Tata Motors are being helpful and cooperative. Please update whenever you get the alignment done. This thread will assist other owners too.

Drive Safe,
350Z
 
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Re: My Manza Aura ABS QJet - Truly a Breed Apart

In last few days I got the call from Tata CSM who asked me to take the car to another workshop to rule out possibilities of alignment machine giving wrong reading I did that, the car was picked up from my house by Tata dealer & TASS workshop Oberoi motors noida & after the wheel alignment as per their satisfaction they sent the car but the car still had the same problem & now the steering wheel is tilting to right as seen in the attached image.

I don't thing this is normal to have the car steering straight where the steering wheel is tilted to right.. what do you say?

I decided to have an extensive test drive so after 130kms of test drive with 4 passengers & boot loaded with 3 suitcases I can now say the car is horribly misaligned, the wheel may be aligned (as per 2 different tata workshops) now but there seems some other issue/ problem & my guess is that workshop are not able to detect manufacturing defect. I would love to be proved wrong. The car still pulls to the left, imagine on a road where you have a 90° turn & the road tapers to right the car should be following the tramline thus moving to right, this car still pulls to left & workshop peopel from day one are telling me the same story that this is normal behavior.

I went to workshop & took the GM of Oberai motors & a senior technician who had done the alignment for a road test of the car on 30km test drive on expressway,within 10mins they saw the horror of misalignment @120kmph, surprisingly on road where there is 1 feet slope to its right & road turning to right the car pulled to extreme left in no time even there.

The GM of Oberai motors Mr. Rajgopala acknowledged the problem told me that they suspected the left lower arm & knuckle to be the faulty part when the car 1st came to them & they had already taken the approval from Tata CSM on Friday 3rd june for changing it but cannot change without my approval, yesterday being Saturday I could not talk with anyone in CSM. So they want to change these 2 parts & test the car they say they have other 2 cases where this fault was found & after changing left lower arm & knuckle it was sorted out.

My big concern is What if the problem does not go away even after doing these changes then they will lok into some other area for fault & then would want to chnage that other part thus I will land up with a new car whose almost all parts getting changed one by one & loose its road worthiness, I highly doubt workshops have same ability as they do have in factory.

To be on safer side they want their own wheel alignment machine to be checked for calibration by LG technician.

Now my question is should I allow them to change these 2 parts & let them calibrate the wheel alignment?

Do the experts feel that doing so in a new car workshop can perfectly recalibrate it as its done in factory?

Any downside or risk involved doing so?

Any future problem which I can face due to this as side effect?

Need expert comments & suggestions.
 

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Re: My Manza Aura ABS QJet - Truly a Breed Apart

Hey Gypsy,me too having a Manza(October 2010 make) Aura ABS.
I have also experienced the same feel of car drifting towards left, but I don't think mine is this much, I"ll check it tomorrow and revert.

Have you got your alignment checked by any other independent shop(preferably some one with a LASER machine)?
Do you see any signs of wear on your tyre?

To be on safer side they want their own wheel alignment machine to be checked for calibration by LG technician.

Now my question is should I allow them to change these 2 parts & let them calibrate the wheel alignment?

And yes can you tell your batch no. as this may be a batch specific problem as well.

Do the experts feel that doing so in a new car workshop can perfectly recalibrate it as its done in factory?

Any downside or risk involved doing so?

Any future problem which I can face due to this as side effect?

Need expert comments & suggestions.
Regarding the change in parts, first get it checked by any independent workshop and than if the problem persists you"ll have to change the parts because I doubt TATA will replace your car. I mean they only try to give some excuse that 'It's a small problem' blah blah blah.
 
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Re: My Manza Aura ABS QJet - Truly a Breed Apart

Safire90
to get a real picture you need to test on a long stretch of highway, greater noida expressway is one of them another could be dnd toll road (be very careful doing this on a busy road)

I am now sure that this isn't the alignment issue of the tyre, its the suspension which is the issue & I have no way to test it. I dont see any tyre wear but I have spoken with few other manza owners & they too have confirmed me the same, worst case I met a owner whose tyre were badly worn in 1200kms journey.

I have now landed up with a new problem in a brand new manza on my 1st trip to mountains with new car.

http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/f...eeching-refusing-climb-uphill-loss-power.html
 
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Re: My Manza Aura ABS QJet - Truly a Breed Apart

Surprisingly , we didnt get pulling problem as you both have got.

BUt what we got was a sound that occured in first move after turning to full left . i have reported the same in my manza thread.

They have replaced lower arm ball joint, steering end , knucle end , knucle bearing etc. and also the wheel bearing.
everything was replaced in warrenty and only thing that we were asked to pay was for for their 200kms test/trial and for wheel alignment.

Already dejected with the problem , we left the car with half tank of diesel and top of that they almost emtied that and asking for 200rs more.
we didnt pay for diesel!
now the problem is solved and car drives good!
 
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Re: My Manza Aura ABS QJet - Truly a Breed Apart

I am going today for getting the left lower arm & knuckle replaced, on june 11 when the so called left pulling problem was corrected by some jugad (manipulation) I finally found that jugad, TASS guys has 36psi in left front tyre & rest 3 tyre had 32psi the moment I reduced the pressure to 32 psi left pulling started again.

Just to be double sure I again did 36psi in left front & left pulling corrects almost 90%. Its a shame that Urmil motors who have not yet given me the so called alignment report till date put up a lie to Tata motors (my complain) the printer was not working on that day & next day........................seems their printer is still not working & it will never be working bcoz they never did any alignment hence the computer does not have that data.
 
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Re: My Manza Aura ABS QJet - Truly a Breed Apart

Hi Ranjan,

I hope you are updating your tread, (the one you started about this problem), with all the info you are puting in this tread. That will help any one else who has the same problem as yours to follow the solutions that you are trying without having to jump from one tread to another.

I just don't want all the trouble and and the hard work you are putting to get the problem solved, buried in this tread.:biggrin:
 
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Re: My Manza Aura ABS QJet - Truly a Breed Apart

Hi Ranjan,

I hope you are updating your tread, (the one you started about this problem), with all the info you are puting in this tread. That will help any one else who has the same problem as yours to follow the solutions that you are trying without having to jump from one tread to another.

I just don't want all the trouble and and the hard work you are putting to get the problem solved, buried in this tread.:biggrin:
Yes I have updated that post (1st part since its too long) 2nd part will be posted soon.
http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/f...sing-climb-uphill-loss-power-3.html#post83500
 
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Re: My Manza Aura ABS QJet - Truly a Breed Apart

Problems, Problems & more Problems when the very people who are suppose to diagnose the problems say its not a problem but normal for a car to go left due to road camber then you can never ever solve a problem, that's what has been happening last 1 month since day I bought manza aura abs as you all know.

Last week I have been quite active on the internet to find the root cause of left pulling & I was not ready to believe that a car will pull to left due to 2-5° camber in the road why? bcoz I have been driving on the very same roads all these years & no car behaved like this manza even the new Indica my father bought a week ago (before My manza) does not behave like that then why Manza?

Last week after Tata engineer could not pin point the problem I became even more desperate to find the solution I have been stopping manza owners on the road/restaurant/highway joints wherever I spot a manza & ask them about this problem in their manza & have found that many manza owners are having this problem with no solution but I also found 2 manza users who said that their manza goes perfectly straight. So Best was to test drive their manza & see myself , I drove their manza & yes their manza goes straight like any other car should actually go straight.

So irrespective what Tata motors say the manza can go straight too if anyone within tata motors is willing to consider left pulling as a problem rather than saying this is normal & happens due to road camber.

Since 2002 I have been part of Tata Indica Users Group (TIUG) on yahoogroups & Mr. Achin Juneja an active & quite knowledgeable member have been reading my manza post with keen observation including questioning me on the alignment reports & he was kind enough to talk to me personally & wanted to inspect my manza himself.

Just few days ago he had hired a manza taxi (March 2011 Make) & he asked the driver if the car has left pulling problem the driver showed him by taking the hand off steering on straight road that indeed the car moves perfectly straight on the road so I felt YES then even my manza can go straight now if the problem can be pin pointed.

I decided to meet Mr. Achin Juneja & went to Delhi at his residence, our original plan was to test the manza on 2 very new & flat roads but just as he started driving manza we had some patch of road with path holes & the car was driven over it in 2nd gear, his keen eye observed the left pulling clearly with steering loosely going right / left (This is the 1st time test on such a patch as I only drive on expressway 95%) then further on the way to test drive road he passed the car on a speed breaker & the car again puled to left. Remember the left puling problem was reduced 60-70% even then it did that left pull as it crossed the breaker. I had never tested this earlier.

He said we don't need any further test drive its proven to him that indeed its pulling to left even after 70% correction now he suggested me that we take the car to one of his best workshops in Gurgaon where he knows the team member personally & vouched for their expertise. The idea was to consult him to at least pin point the source of the problem.

From Vasant kunj to gurgaon we have a fairly new road & the car was driven by both of us & the left problem remained as it is. We reached "Gurgaon car scanners" (its a tata workshop) in 30 mins & I must say that nobody would want to get the car serviced there. Its an old (or may be oldest in NCR) tata workshop with not many automatic machines & no show off business at all, no beauties to welcome you, but its a workshop meant for "real repairs" hence they don't need all that show off.

Achin Uncle (as called by the staff) was received very warmly by the staff & Ram Singh head of the team was called & briefed about the left pulling problem & the history along with failed attempts. Ram Singh decided to take a test drive & was quite well convinced of the left pull problem & said that this cant be normal at all.

Mind you the workshop has no automation except a car jacking up platform, he took the car to a manual old style pit & inspected the car after 30 mins he asked us to sit in the waiting room & he will open the tyres to which I refused as to not to fiddle bcoz 70% problem is corrected so don't disturb it further.

He said sir your problem is not 70% corrected but another problem seems to be created, he pointed out to the geometrical difference in front 2 tyres due to cross member shifting. He raised his objection & said a car needs to be 1st corrected for its geometry (2 wrongs cant make 1 right together) Well I shared my concern both with Ram Singh & with Mr. Achin Juneja. Our Original plan was not to fiddle with the car but to seek his opinion & pin point the problem.
left-wheel.jpg

right-wheel.jpg

Ram Singh said the problem can be found easily but before that he has to get to default settings, after a long discussion we decided to let give a chance. From the glass window we kept discussing & watched Ram Singh & his team taking measurement with thread & seek balance in alignment (They have no modern gadgetry). Thrice during his investigation we both went out to know if he has found any root cause, he smiled & said we will find it for sure else we would have not opened the wheels.

1. They took the 2 front tyre for wheel balancing & swapped left /right went for a test drive car still pulled to left

2. Cross member was adjusted back to factory setting which was measured by thread method for correcting the geometry.

3. 2nd attempt of thread measurement were done to cross check & went for a test drive left pulling became worse as it was in original manza
4. then they found the probable cause to be the left "Strut" which holds the entire suspension.
see this image for reference
http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/FXM/V646/GE39MFWC/FXMV646GE39MFWC.MEDIUM.jpgHe told us that he will be changing the entire left strut assembly. I was not at all ready for all this major change since knuckle/lower arm/ wheel/disk & suspension all will be taken off (Its a complex assembly).

To explain our doubt he got a new strut (complete assembly as seen in the image) & explained that misalignment in this strut will cause caster to be out causing left pull, (caster is not adjustable in manza or any front wheel car hence caster is dependent on the strut angle). He assured us that if after changing this problem not solved he will get the car back to the same geometry as before & fit back the old strut.

Faulty Strut has a sticker manufactured by Tenneco Rc India Ltd
Tenneco Inc. || Original Equipment || Ride Control || Products and Technologies

faulty-strut-replaced.jpg

Mr. Achin had pointed out twice in last 1 month asking me question as to how in before report caster was out & suddenly the after report shows its perfect where as caster adjustment is not possible. I could not answer him that time bcoz I don't really understood all this technical things then. Same was pointed out for SAI values to which I had no clue.

We were feeling hungry by this time as we had not planned the day at the workshop but resisted to move out in anticipation of getting the car fixed soon so sat hungry there whole day having tea & snacks.

Over 2 hrs work & 2 test drive without us Ram Singh confirmed left pull is gone now but the car is now puling to right which they again adjusted & sent the car for wheel alignment to another shop. By evening the car was ready as per Ram Singh & he broke the news to us that the MANZA moves Straight NOW & we can test drive it. The wheel alignment report was not given & I don't know what kind of machine was used to check & make alignment but driving it to believe was the best way to know it.

We went for the drive & yes the car was moving almost 80-100mts straight on the road 1st time ever since I bought this car. Could not believe the nightmare of driving a constant left pulling car was getting over. We came back to the workshop & Mr. Achin Juneja discussed in detail with Ram Singh to understand the problem & inspected the faulty area of the strut. Now if you remember left lower arm was changed, then knuckle was changed , then shockers were changed along with the shocker bushes, but strut was not at all on the list to be a probable cause. (all these parts are mounted on the strut) I guess strut also controls the SAI values which were going way off in 2 alignment reports to which Mr. Achin asked me as to why they are so different & in next report how SAI has been corrected, I could not answer that at all as all these words are too new to me & I don't even fully understand them.

Ram-Singh-with-Mr.-Achin.jpg

For me it was a "big moment" which actually should have been on the day I bought the car but it came quite late courtesy Tata Motors. I asked the entire team who worked on my car to be in line for a winning moment photograph, Ram Singh humbly said "Sir this is our daily job does it need a photograph" I said Yes it does indeed.

Team-members.jpg

We thanked the entire team & took the car out & went straight for a longer test drive the car moved almost straight & I can confirm that now after shifting back the cross member to original position the problem is 90% corrected & on flat roads the car has driven absolutely straight up to 1km, YES 1 km without me touching the steering on expressway.
 
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Re: My Manza Aura ABS QJet - Truly a Breed Apart

Why 90% correction only??
The steering still seems to have some loose /free moment, I tested on a bad road & steering rolls left/right by 1-2 inches which I don't think is normal so the steering having some extra input still remains to be investigated & I am quite hopeful that this problem can be sorted out to 100% perfection. If needed I will post a video of steering roll for members to seek advice.

Its been proven over & over again that machines are as good as the humans working with it, technologically we might be advancing but unfortunately we are not investing enough in human brain power which is crucial for perfection.

Perfection is not something you go & buy in a shop or a mall it comes only to few who are blessed with crazy brains & one of those crazy person is Mr. Achin Juneja an elderly gentleman whom I can say is passionately in love with automobile problems & its solutions. Pardon my statement but I am honored to meet a mad person like Mr. Achin Juneja who felt the pain of my problems as his own & asked me to get the car to him for a test drive, then further took me to "Gurgaon Car scanners" personally leaving all his day work, (this was not planned) & sat there whole day with no lunch till late evening & got the problem solved as if it was his own car & his own problems.

Genius is another name of madness but to be genius madness is an essential component & he does possess that element of crazy madness else why would someone leave his whole day work for someone else he has just met on the internet via forum & get connected to root out the problem.

Thank You Mr. Achin Juneja!
If Tata Motors can have few cloned copies of you they might rule the world in automobile industry.

Update from Tata Factory
Now all this while Tata engineer Mr. Mayur Vyas has been updating me on the discussion he had with the design team & reported to me that the cars they tested in the plant also does pull to left & this is normal. For the official version of tata motors he asked me to contact Ms Sumedha Singh CSM Tata Motors which I will be meeting tomorrow.

To me this is completely unacceptable & since I have met so many manza owners now who have exactly the same left puling problem I feel sad that Tata motors has let so many manza run on the road with serious problem which can in many case lead to an accident. I hope they understand the gravity of the problem & sort this out right at the manufacturing level, else it will bring bad name to otherwise a good INDIAN car, YES its a good car & I hope it to remain good for years to come.

Overhead expanses
Few things can never be compensated by money & one of them is my time & the agony this problem brought to me & my family.

1. Loss of Income
Last 40 days I have not stepped into my office & have not been doing any work, I still consider myself to be lucky to do all that time devotion to solve out a major problem in manza.
2. Loss of holiday & additional expanses due
Hotel booking had to be canceled then later we shifted our destination & booked again on the way to Nainital manza broke down & had to call a taxi from the resort, I had to come back up to haldwani where the problem was solved but by then I already had hired a taxi at the cost of 18000/- for the rest of the family members to move without me, I did not want their holiday to be spoiled.
3. Mental agony
I cant say how many sleepless nights I had in last 40 days & sat long hrs on computer to find solution & interact with other members on many automotive forums, I see the positive side of this agony & this has given me many good knowledgeable people whom I would have not known otherwise.

Hope tata motors understand that such experience from the manza customers will not go down well for future prospective buyers.

Thanks to all those who have spent time reading my long mails all this while & then trying to understand my problem & guiding me to finally solve the problem.
 
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Re: My Manza Aura ABS QJet - Truly a Breed Apart

Just one word.
congrats for the team!

There is difference , when you work for salary and when you work for satisfaction.

the car scanner must be in latter part!

And i am happy to inform that , our manza drives STRAIGHT. Am i lucky!
 
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