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auto_luver 27th April 2011 01:06 AM

Mineral or Synthetic Oil?
 
I have been searching the forum for this and could not find one so am starting a new thread here. Mods people merge it if a similar thread exists.
I am Planning to do 4th Paid service for my car ( swift Diesel ) which has clocked some 19000 KMS now. From what I understand from MASS that they will be using servo oils which I do not want to put in my engine , so started searching for some oil types.
The oils i am looking for ( with API-CI+ rating or higher ) ( only comparing Shell and Mobil Brands, More brands can be added if found good )
Synthetic:
Mobil Delvac 1 ( Around Rs 4400 for 4L can )
Shell helix Diesel Ultra ( Around Rs 1200 for 1L )
Mineral :
Mobil Delvac Mx ( Rs 295 for 1 L)
Shell Rumila 4 ( Price not known but supposed to be around Rs300 )
Till now I have been using mineral oil ( servo brand ) and so if I am changing to a new brand is engine flushing required ? By seeing the cost factor , it comes to my mind that i can use mineral oil and change it more often than, use synthetic oil and run for more time .
I request the experts here to comment on this and help me make a decision .

auto_luver 27th April 2011 11:38 AM

Re: Mineral or Synthetic Oil ?
 
Sad to find no replies [sad]

Mr.Boss 27th April 2011 02:06 PM

Re: Mineral or Synthetic Oil ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by auto_luver (Post 75963)
......if I am changing to a new brand is engine flushing required ?......

Engine flush is not mandatory for change in brand / shift from mineral to synthetic or vice-versa. But it is recommended to ensure the engine is free from dust / foreign particles (to the max possible extent) which in turn boost your engine life and also the life of oil you are yet to fill.

auto_luver 27th April 2011 03:34 PM

Re: Mineral or Synthetic Oil ?
 
Atlast somebody has responded, Thankx Mr Boss. [clap]
As far as I can understand from MASS they are going to add some additive to the existing engine oil and run the engine for sometime then drain the oil, this is what they call Flushing . Is it true ? If this is the process, does this kind of flushing cleans the engine from dust/Particles ? they aren't going to remove the pan also , so anyways there will be some oil left in the pan even if they drain it for a day. So, Flushing does not really help isn't it ?. As you said, it's not mandatory but MASS may want some more amount added to their bill thats why they insist .
What about the recommendation for the oils ? Which one you will prefer.

Umang 27th April 2011 05:04 PM

Re: Mineral or Synthetic Oil ?
 
hey buddy am not expert but why don't you want to use synthetic oil in ur car??

Mr.Boss 27th April 2011 05:10 PM

Re: Mineral or Synthetic Oil ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Umang (Post 76033)
hey buddy am not expert but why don't you want to use synthetic oil in ur car??

Answer is very simple "Vitamin-M" (No offense, please correct me if I am wrong)

350Z 28th April 2011 12:16 AM

Re: Mineral or Synthetic Oil ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by auto_luver (Post 75984)
Sad to find no replies

Hey, it was not even 24 hours. :smile:

Quote:

Originally Posted by auto_luver (Post 76011)
As far as I can understand from MASS they are going to add some additive to the existing engine oil and run the engine for sometime then drain the oil, this is what they call Flushing . Is it true ? If this is the process, does this kind of flushing cleans the engine from dust/Particles ? they aren't going to remove the pan also , so anyways there will be some oil left in the pan even if they drain it for a day. So, Flushing does not really help isn't it ?. As you said, it's not mandatory but MASS may want some more amount added to their bill thats why they insist .
What about the recommendation for the oils ? Which one you will prefer.

Yes. That’s what they do. Mr. Boss has already answered though, but engine flush is not at all compulsory. In fact, recently authorized Maruti Suzuki workshop also performed the same on my car and charged a fairly high sum but I’m regretting for it. BTW, when was the last time you changed engine oil and is synthetic oil in the consideration too?

Drive Safe,
350Z

ilango[speed thirst] 28th April 2011 08:45 AM

Re: Mineral or Synthetic Oil ?
 
Main factor is what oil do you need?

synthetic is far smoother and can run longer period of time. where as mineral dont.

Synthetic oils have chemicals which do not harm the blocks that much as mineral. - hold on mineral oils too dont harm a engine block . comparative to both synthetic does less.

synthetic are finer and suitable for turbo engines as they flow more freely than a mineral oil.

In a car with mineral oil , engine flush is not that much need. just as a normal oil change it can be done.
Old oil should be drained for a longer time

Good practise for this synthetic oil is , it should be give a more idling time before driving , to make the viscosity of oil increase.

Mr.Boss 28th April 2011 09:02 AM

Re: Mineral or Synthetic Oil ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by auto_luver (Post 76011)
....add some additive to the existing engine oil and run the engine for sometime then drain the oil, this is what they call Flushing . Is it true ? If this is the process, does this kind of flushing cleans the engine from dust/Particles ? they aren't going to remove the pan also , so anyways there will be some oil left in the pan even if they drain it for a day. So, Flushing does not really help isn't it ?. As you said, it's not mandatory but MASS may want some more amount added to their bill thats why they insist .
What about the recommendation for the oils ? Which one you will prefer.

Sorry for the late reply as I was busy yesterday in travelling home.
What ever the MASS practice is 'flush' but a proper engine flush should follow the below steps
1) Keep the engine warm before flush (idling for 5~10 minutes is not sufficient, keep the engine warm as high as possible)
2) Add additive and keep the engine in idle for 5 mins
3) Start draining the oil when the engine is in idle
4) When 50% of oil is drained, switch off the engine
5) Drain the oil completely
6) Crank the engine once or twice (so that the oil inside the pump will also be drained)
7) Change the oil filter and fill new oil.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilango[speed thirst] (Post 76091)
.....
Good practise for this synthetic oil is , it should be give a more idling time before driving , to make the viscosity of oil increase.

Ilango, will viscosity increase on idling?

auto_luver 28th April 2011 10:50 AM

Re: Mineral or Synthetic Oil ?
 
Thanks every one of your valuable advise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umang (Post 76033)
hey buddy am not expert but why don't you want to use synthetic oil in ur car??

As Mr Boss Said in next msg it's Vitamin "M"
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Boss (Post 76035)
Answer is very simple "Vitamin-M" (No offense, please correct me if I am wrong)

You are right Buddy, Thing is , lets work out this way , Synthetic oil is 3 times expensive than mineral oil and even if the oil change interval is doubled ( I don't think so !) than also it's not economical to use. than why change to synthetic thats my question ?
Quote:

Originally Posted by 350Z (Post 76081)
Hey, it was not even 24 hours. :smile:

Yes. That’s what they do. Mr. Boss has already answered though, but engine flush is not at all compulsory. In fact, recently authorized Maruti Suzuki workshop also performed the same on my car and charged a fairly high sum but I’m regretting for it. BTW, when was the last time you changed engine oil and is synthetic oil in the consideration too?

Drive Safe,
350Z

So Flushing is not required , point taken . Last oil change was some 9000kms back. ( going as par maruthi's schedule ) Yes synthetic oil is in consideration but after seeing the advantages of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilango[speed thirst] (Post 76091)
Main factor is what oil do you need?

synthetic is far smoother and can run longer period of time. where as mineral dont.

Synthetic oils have chemicals which do not harm the blocks that much as mineral. - hold on mineral oils too dont harm a engine block . comparative to both synthetic does less.

synthetic are finer and suitable for turbo engines as they flow more freely than a mineral oil.

In a car with mineral oil , engine flush is not that much need. just as a normal oil change it can be done.
Old oil should be drained for a longer time

Good practise for this synthetic oil is , it should be give a more idling time before driving , to make the viscosity of oil increase.

I was expecting your reply ilango on this since you are in the field. Thankx for advice.
But correct me if i am wrong, Viscosity is inversely proportional to temperature. That means if temperature increases viscosity decreases. Also , as far as I searched the viscosity Index of synthetic oil is more , which means " the change in viscosity is less for the change in temperature when compared to mineral oil"
ilango, Have you used Mobil Delvac mX in any of your cars serviced ? how is this oil ?
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Boss (Post 76092)
Sorry for the late reply as I was busy yesterday in travelling home.
What ever the MASS practice is 'flush' but a proper engine flush should follow the below steps
1) Keep the engine warm before flush (idling for 5~10 minutes is not sufficient, keep the engine warm as high as possible)
2) Add additive and keep the engine in idle for 5 mins
3) Start draining the oil when the engine is in idle
4) When 50% of oil is drained, switch off the engine
5) Drain the oil completely
6) Crank the engine once or twice (so that the oil inside the pump will also be drained)
7) Change the oil filter and fill new oil.



Ilango, will viscosity increase on idling?

Mr Boss, hope they do this at MASS ,but I seriously doubt so. They are in such a hurry to service the cars they aren't bothered about draining the oil completely. As 350Z said it may be waste of money to do engine flushing at this point.
I will be joining my ship in another month or so , after that my car will not be running most of the time for next 4 months. Planning to do back to back voyages this year. so the running for the car this year is going to be less. Thats why i am thinking so much on using synthetic oil.

Mr.Boss 28th April 2011 11:21 AM

Re: Mineral or Synthetic Oil ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by auto_luver (Post 76098)
......
Synthetic oil is 3 times expensive than mineral oil and even if the oil change interval is doubled ( I don't think so !) than also it's not economical to use. than why change to synthetic thats my question ?
.......
But correct me if i am wrong, Viscosity is inversely proportional to temperature. That means if temperature increases viscosity decreases.
.......
Mr Boss, hope they do this at MASS ,but I seriously doubt so. They are in such a hurry to service the cars they aren't bothered about draining the oil completely. As 350Z said it may be waste of money to do engine flushing at this point.
I will be joining my ship in another month or so , after that my car will not be running most of the time for next 4 months. Planning to do back to back voyages this year. so the running for the car this year is going to be less. Thats why i am thinking so much on using synthetic oil.

Synthetic oil is recommended (Read best suitable) if your running is extensive. For short runs & lesser mileage Mineral oil could do pretty good.

For a perfect engine flush, never approach MASS, they are quantity oriented than Quality. I was informed Engine flush could be done in less than 10 minutes[frustration] be SE at MASS-Coimbatore, think of their job then.

Yes, you are correct on the statement regarding viscosity.
@Ilango : is it a typo?

I vote for Mineral Oil considering your less mileage & avoid engine flush as you are planning for a long voyage.

auto_luver 28th April 2011 12:00 PM

Re: Mineral or Synthetic Oil ?
 
If it should be mineral oil than can you suggest some brand which is good. As I said earlier I came across these oils
1. Mobil Delvac Mx
2 Shell Rimula 4
3 Castrol GTD
all oils are 15w40 grade and has CI + rating on them.

ilango[speed thirst] 28th April 2011 02:23 PM

Re: Mineral or Synthetic Oil ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Boss (Post 76105)

Yes, you are correct on the statement regarding viscosity.
@Ilango : is it a typo?

Which one you are asking.

Oil viscocity increase with temperature.
eg 15w 40 is for diesel

15 is grade when normal and 40 is when its in optimum temperature.

ilango[speed thirst] 28th April 2011 02:25 PM

Re: Mineral or Synthetic Oil ?
 
Castrol and mobile dev is normally used , some time wurth oil is also used.

For maruti cars , MGP oils area avail at authorised spares. so we go for them some time.

Same MGP oil''s can be used for normal cars too , but we buy them only when we vist the store for some spares!

dodge_v1per 28th April 2011 02:34 PM

Re: Mineral or Synthetic Oil ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by auto_luver (Post 76118)
If it should be mineral oil than can you suggest some brand which is good. As I said earlier I came across these oils
1. Mobil Delvac Mx
2 Shell Rimula 4
3 Castrol GTD
all oils are 15w40 grade and has CI + rating on them.

Dude I will suggest Mobil. No personal experience but heard positive about it.


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