Maruti Suzuki Alto LXi (2004) CNG Conversion

[abhijit_net]

I bought an old Alto LXi to learn how to drive (2yrs back). Its a good car no problems yet, I like it and want to keep it as long as it lasts. Bot Petrol costs are too high and in city driving, petrol just starts disappearing from tank. Should I go ahead and convert the car to CNG ?
My fuel costs are 5K to 6K monthly.
Is it worth investing 30K in this old car ? Will it be very under powered ? Please give your suggestions on this. Would appreciate comments from people who have old alto and have converted it to CNG.

 

[konkantrip]

Re: ALTO LXi 2004 - CNG Conversion.

HI Abhijit welcome to TAI

Should I go ahead and convert the car to CNG ?

It is a good option as you can help in reducing the carbon footprint, also the the CNG outlets are good in numbers in mumbai so you wont spent time in large ques as other cities where CNG is there for example Pune

My fuel costs are 5K to 6K monthly.

Please check your current mileage after fitting the CNG you can expect 30% increase in the mileage also the CNG is half the petrol price so you will save good amount of money monthly

Is it worth investing 30K in this old car ?

if you are going drive the car for at-least 45000 kms more then its worth investing

Will it be very under powered ?

Yes the car is bit under powered esp you will fell this on highways while overtaking and when AC is full on 3rd gear and more but in city traffic there wont be much difference

Please give your suggestions on this. Would appreciate comments from people who have old alto and have converted it to CNG.

I have a 2005 Zen with similar specification to zen I have done 60000 kms after fitting the CNG I havent faced any issue till now in last 3 years I feel if your running is around atleast 1500 kms per month and can sacrifice on Boot space and pick up then you can go for this option

 

[abhijit_net]

Re: ALTO LXi 2004 - CNG Conversion.

Thanks for your reply.
I spoke to 2 good CNG fitters, but their reply was very confusing.
1st was Suraj Auto Gas : He says I should go with Sequential kit, I will not feel any power loss and it is good for the car.
2nd Khatri Auto CNG : He says sequential are just waste of money for this car, engines which were made after 2010 should only be fitted with sequential system. He can fit sequential if I want but its useless and there is no advantage. He is said Open loop is best for my car. I asked why not closed loop, he said after 6 months their will be problem with feedback parts and any way I will have to remove them, and it will again become open loop. But he is giving guarantee of 2 years that nothing wrong will happen with his fitting.

 

[konkantrip]

Re: ALTO LXi 2004 - CNG Conversion.

Thanks for your reply.
I spoke to 2 good CNG fitters, but their reply was very confusing.
1st was Suraj Auto Gas : He says I should go with Sequential kit, I will not feel any power loss and it is good for the car.
2nd Khatri Auto CNG : He says sequential are just waste of money for this car, engines which were made after 2010 should only be fitted with sequential system. He can fit sequential if I want but its useless and there is no advantage. He is said Open loop is best for my car. I asked why not closed loop, he said after 6 months their will be problem with feedback parts and any way I will have to remove them, and it will again become open loop. But he is giving guarantee of 2 years that nothing wrong will happen with his fitting.

Please refer the below link

CNG Kits and their Types | CarDekho.com

IMO I think closed loop is a better choice as Open loop there is no control on emission. Six months is a very nominal time I have fitted the same and havent any problems as such in last 3 years would sugest you to consult few more vendors and yes also ask them about the brand i have a lovato fitted cng kit

 

[abhijit_net]

Re: ALTO LXi 2004 - CNG Conversion.

Suraj Auto has the highest customer satisfaction score, so I decided to go with them. He will fit an Open loop CNG kit. I tried all top CNG Vendors and they have suggested to go with open loop only. No one is comfortable with Closed loop. Sequential is too expensive.
Let me see what happens, by Monday evening car will be ready.

 

[abhijit_net]

Re: ALTO LXi 2004 - CNG Conversion.

One more thing a mechanic told to me, is that when they take the car to RTO its a closed loop with lambda sensor and all fitted to car. When they bring back the car they make it open loop again as open loop has less problems. I don't know if this is true.
Also the mechanic at Suraj, where I gave my car says I have to bring my car in after every 1 and a half month for inspection, and its free for 1 year. After 1 year i can take AMC of 1800 to 2400 per year for same inspection. They will tune the CNG. Suraj Auto was the most expensive in Mumbai, but user reviews are great and so I stick to them. 30K for Open loop. I have got prices from 26K, from all top CNG dealers. People in reviews say that after sales service of Suraj is the best, and the extra 4K is worth spending on suraj. So lets see.. this thread will reveal all of CNG issues, considring my car has done 87,000 Kms and the engine is still like new, all mechanics say it will last 10 more years. My CNG conversion decision was on hold due to relatives saying "sell this and get a new one" "if you convert to CNG no one will buy it" But my problem is that I am spending 6K on petrol per month, that's just going to office and back. When on trip, monthly expense on petrol is 12K. People say Alto sounds like bad idea for long trip, but I drive 400 Kms non stop in emergencies, it has no problems. Its a 10 year old car, but was built to last. I have done 120 Kmph on highway, I could have done more, but its a small car, and family in it, can accelerate only till you are comfortable. I usually hold at 110 kmph on highway. My friend says he does 140 in an Alto fitted with CNG.

 

[konkantrip]

Re: ALTO LXi 2004 - CNG Conversion.

One more thing a mechanic told to me, is that when they take the car to RTO its a closed loop with lambda sensor and all fitted to car. When they bring back the car they make it open loop again as open loop has less problems. I don't know if this is true.

I am not sure on this never heard something like this. Also confirm price of open loop and close loop as as per my understanding close loop must be more costly

Also the mechanic at Suraj, where I gave my car says I have to bring my car in after every 1 and a half month for inspection, and its free for 1 year. After 1 year i can take AMC of 1800 to 2400 per year for same inspection. They will tune the CNG.

Please ask him what kind of inspection. There is only a gas flow setting which needs be done and you can do it yourself, please dont spend on AMC I think there is no use of it.
One tip I would to suggest here is please change the Air filter on every service instead of cleaning it as it will keep the engine healthy

Suraj Auto was the most expensive in Mumbai, but user reviews are great and so I stick to them. 30K for Open loop. I have got prices from 26K, from all top CNG dealers. People in reviews say that after sales service of Suraj is the best, and the extra 4K is worth spending on suraj.

This is very important, go with suraj

So lets see.. this thread will reveal all of CNG issues, considring my car has done 87,000 Kms and the engine is still like new, all mechanics say it will last 10 more years.

Maruti engine last for 2 lakh kms easily if engine is kept well, please check the suspensions as the weight of the tank is very high and 10 years old suspension will need a check up

My CNG conversion decision was on hold due to relatives saying "sell this and get a new one" "if you convert to CNG no one will buy it"

Ask them if they are willing to gift you a new car , apart from this you will get a the same resale as a non cng fitted vehicle will get so only money you will loose is 30 k. But only fit this as i said earlier if you are going to keep it for more 50k kms or else sell this and go for wagon r green

I have done 120 Kmph on highway, I could have done more, but its a small car, and family in it, can accelerate only till you are comfortable. I usually hold at 110 kmph on highway. My friend says he does 140 in an Alto fitted with CNG.

CNG has to do with pick up the power of the engine will remain the same if the engine is meant to go till 140 it will definetly go

 

[abhijit_net]

Yesterday night I brought my car back.
Kit is lovato (Open Loop). I have to take the car to Suraj Auto once every 1.5 Months for inspection. After 1 year AMC charges are 1800 Rs. I can get the car checked every month if I like.
I did not drive much yet, but there is noticeable loss in power. I cannot accelerate that fast in 5th Gear. Also I have to accelerate the car in first gear a bit more, before the 2nd gear can be useful. Cost saving wise, its fine.
I drove it to 80kmph today. Next week I will go on highway where I can test the speed properly.
Engine feels a bit smoother. Also due to tank weight at back of the car, it does not vibrate like before. It feels like I am driving a bigger vehicle. Suspensions are OK, I will take it to garage (local mechanics where my car gets serviced) and ask them to check the car properly.
Car Starts on petrol first, then after a minute or so, it suddenly converts to CNG, I get a jerk when this happens. Once the engine did shut down when switching to CNG, mostly this happened as I had moved to 2nd gear and was trying to accelerate on low speed, while the switching took place.
Lets see, I will keep posting my experiences.

 

[abhijit_net]

One shocking discovery:
My AC was shutting down automatically when on CNG. On petrol it din't.
So the CNG fitter exactly know what the issue was, he directly opened the Radiator fluid cap and it was boiling and throwing water vapour.
He poured in 1 bottle of water approx 2 litre in it, emptied it completely and the filled some more. He said I had almost no liquid in their. He also said there is a temperature gauge, which i should keep an eye on. if it goes above 50% mark i should stop and check. I knew that, but who looks at it ? never did in 2 years of driving it. I also never check any thing, i just get in and drive, only after 10K kms (when it goes for servicing) hopefully some one checks stuff under the bonnet.
Now I admire the alto more than ever, if engine gets hot, it shuts down AC to keep heat at minimum. Good indicator that engine is getting hot. Also note that - it got hot on CNG not on Petrol so Engine heating is an inherent problem with CNG.
In summers will have to be careful with radiator liquid (water in my case).

I dint get time to inspect it by a mechanic. Hopefully tomorrow I will.

 

[abhijit_net]

One more finding :
The Kit is supposed to convert automatically to CNG, but while doing it, the engine shuts off.
That means steering and breaks are gone. You only have hand break at your service. Right now I have shut down auto conversion and now i manually do it. Engine shutting is pretty bad thing, I stop at a safe place, then push on the accelerator hard for auto switching to happen

 

[konkantrip]

One more finding :
The Kit is supposed to convert automatically to CNG, but while doing it, the engine shuts off.
That means steering and breaks are gone. You only have hand break at your service. Right now I have shut down auto conversion and now i manually do it. Engine shutting is pretty bad thing, I stop at a safe place, then push on the accelerator hard for auto switching to happen

Does this happen when you start the engine or does this happen when you are in motion.

 

[abhijit_net]

The engine starts on petrol by default. When you drive for a while and accelerate , it tries to auto switch to CNG. When it switches to CNG the engine shuts down. If the car is fast enough and the clutch is not pressed, the engine starts again due to inertia of the car. Need to take the car to the fitter, I will go this Saturday.
@konkantrip, how does your car switch to CNG ?

 

[abhijit_net]

I have done 2500K on CNG. No problems faced yet. There is a noticeable power difference between CNG and Petrol.
On petrol, the car can accelerate while climbing the Mumbai free way. I normally shift to 5th gear as soon as car hits 60 kmph. On CNG I am stuck at 60, as I shift to 5th gear at 60 kmph.
Also I have not crossed 100 kmph yet, as I am afraid that CNG will fry the small engine.
Next time I will buy a car with bigger engine (1.4 liter +), so effects of power loss are minimal.

 

[abhijit_net]

Ok so a few updates on the alto CNG:
It goes 240 Kms on 9 kg CNG with AC ON. AC only off when its to cold, that to only in evening 1 hr out of 6 hrs driving. Max speed i could attain was 110, but i dint press the peddle to floor. CNG is very hot burning gas and not good at high speeds.
Also at a CNG filling station i met a Alto taxi driver. I was looking at his taxi and he was looking at my car. My car was bigger and CNG tank cannot be seen pooping through my windscreen. I have lots of stuff on my CNG tank, but it never comes above my back windshield. His tank was blocking rear view. Although we both were alto, my car was some how bigger. I don't know how its possible. Finally the driver himself broke the silence and said - 4,00,000 kms on my alto, and the pickup is still great. I just said, great, mine is no where near that. He said its a good car and left.

 

[abhijit_net]

After 12 years of getting hit by debris on road, I had to change my AC condenser. Condenser cost was 2600Rs original MGP. 1800 AC servicing, or he was not going to change the condenser. And my friends suggested to do it, and said I will have to keep blankets in the car, as the guy was correct. Now the AC is soaring cold, you just cant keep the fins pointing in your direction. You move them around you, and then back seat people go crazy. But the AC guy messed with CNG settings, I could not pickup the car in 1st gear. I had to take the car back to CNG people and tune it back in for better power. Now its fine and AC feels like being on North Pole.