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-   -   Mahindra XUV500 Clutch Plate and Flywheel Gone Bad, Twice in 49K Kms (http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/technical-zone/19612-mahindra-xuv500-clutch-plate-flywheel-gone-bad-twice-49k-kms.html)

harishsangwan 8th December 2014 11:44 AM

Mahindra XUV500 Clutch Plate and Flywheel Gone Bad, Twice in 49K Kms
 
Hi, we own a XUV 500 W8 (Non FWD version) and it has clocked 49k Kms in past 1.5yrs. Vehicle was purchased in Feb 2013 and it has 1+2yrs unlimited Kms warranty.

When it reached 27k kms it started showing signs of delayed acceleration, meaning that after gear change it would rev to an extent but acceleration had a delay. We assumed maybe it needed servicing with turbo setting or something and dint seem to be a big deal at that point. Then after a couple of days the clutch pedal went in completely. Called Mahindra and got the car sent to service station on ramp truck. After a diagnosis it was observed that the clutch plate, clutch cylinder and the flywheel needed immediate change. At that point of time the service manager said that it is being replaced for no charge as they suspected it to be a faulty clutch system, and it will be replaced with a better version of the same that the company had later developed.

After that dint have issues with drivability of the car and things went fine till it reached 49k kms. Again the same delayed acceleration issue came in and we soon knew it was clutch related issue so dropped it off at service station for get it verified and to get 50k kms service done. Now I am being told that clutch plate, clutch lever and flywheel need to be replaced and I will have to bear the cost as it happened due driving conditions.
The first question I asked was, they had changed the parts last time with a better variant and if that is the case then how come it had gone so bad within 22k kms. The driving conditions, person driving it and all the other factors have remained the same. If the replaced parts were suppose to be an upgrade then its suppose to last longer than the original parts that the car came with.

I spoke to a couple of mechanics outside the service station and what they say is that even if the clutch plate goes bad for some reason the flywheel wont get damged immediately. I dont have mechanic level of technical knowledge but the very logic that first time it got damaged at 27k kms and the so called 'updated' version damaged at 22k kms, its something that doesnt make sense.

I reside in Hyderabad and the car is mostly driven on Bangalore highway, which is top notch. It travels about 65kms on regular basis. Basically out of total 49k Kms it has done 80-90% on highways.

Anyone here having similar issue or with some advice on what could be the reason and what is to be done would be helpful. As of now I feel that Mahindra is suppose to take the responsibility for it but I need to get some views from members here.

Figoian 8th December 2014 02:46 PM

Re: XUV 500 Clutch plate and Flywheel gone bad, twice in 49k Kms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by harishsangwan (Post 422085)
Hi, we own a XUV 500 W8 (Non FWD version) and it has clocked 49k Kms in past 1.5yrs. Vehicle was purchased in Feb 2013 and it has 1+2yrs unlimited Kms warranty.

Hi Harishsangwan - First of all, Welcome to TAI [clap]

Quote:

When it reached 27k kms it started showing signs of delayed acceleration, meaning that after gear change it would rev to an extent but acceleration had a delay. We assumed maybe it needed servicing with turbo setting or something and dint seem to be a big deal at that point. Then after a couple of days the clutch pedal went in completely. Called Mahindra and got the car sent to service station on ramp truck. After a diagnosis it was observed that the clutch plate, clutch cylinder and the flywheel needed immediate change. At that point of time the service manager said that it is being replaced for no charge as they suspected it to be a faulty clutch system, and it will be replaced with a better version of the same that the company had later developed.
Believe me, I am quite surprised that they replaced it all for free as "Clutch" and related parts are wear and tear items and not generally covered under warranty. Read my friend's story who had to change the clutch assembly on his own cost in just 3K KMs. (http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/fo...-3000-kms.html)

So, that gives me a feeling that this must be a common issue with XUVs and they are aware of it too. Perhaps, other XUV owners can clarify.

Quote:

After that dint have issues with drivability of the car and things went fine till it reached 49k kms. Again the same delayed acceleration issue came in and we soon knew it was clutch related issue so dropped it off at service station for get it verified and to get 50k kms service done. Now I am being told that clutch plate, clutch lever and flywheel need to be replaced and I will have to bear the cost as it happened due driving conditions.
The first question I asked was, they had changed the parts last time with a better variant and if that is the case then how come it had gone so bad within 22k kms. The driving conditions, person driving it and all the other factors have remained the same. If the replaced parts were suppose to be an upgrade then its suppose to last longer than the original parts that the car came with.
If the driver is perfect, then something else is burning the clutch. They should find that route cause than fixing the issue again and again. Did you approach the same service center? If so, ask them how did they agreed to change it earlier and not now. Something fishy there...

Quote:

I spoke to a couple of mechanics outside the service station and what they say is that even if the clutch plate goes bad for some reason the flywheel wont get damged immediately. I dont have mechanic level of technical knowledge but the very logic that first time it got damaged at 27k kms and the so called 'updated' version damaged at 22k kms, its something that doesnt make sense.

I reside in Hyderabad and the car is mostly driven on Bangalore highway, which is top notch. It travels about 65kms on regular basis. Basically out of total 49k Kms it has done 80-90% on highways.
True that Flywheel is a solid surface won't wear easily. However, a badly or unevenly worn clutch disc can damage or leave scoring on the flywheel which may not be used with a new clutch disc as it may damage the new one as well. Moreover, clutch replacement is one of the major work both in terms of labor and it's expense. You need to remove the entire transmission to access the clutch and then flywheel. Hence, it's advisable to replace all worn parts at one shot, unless it's perfectly fine or better.

Talk to them and be very clear that you will not take up these costs as it's something not felt to be right. We need to find and fix the root cause to avoid any such recurrence. A normal life of clutch can vary from 70K to 150K, depending the driving conditions. If you are running about 80-90% in highway, the life of clutch to be better than a city driven car. So, please don't settle down for anything.

Keep the thread alive.

harishsangwan 8th December 2014 07:24 PM

Re: XUV 500 Clutch plate and Flywheel gone bad, twice in 49k Kms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Figoian (Post 422151)
Hi Harishsangwan - First of all, Welcome to TAI [clap]

Thank you[:)]


Quote:

Originally Posted by Figoian (Post 422151)
Believe me, I am quite surprised that they replaced it all for free as "Clutch" and related parts are wear and tear items and not generally covered under warranty. Read my friend's story who had to change the clutch assembly on his own cost in just 3K KMs. (http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/fo...-3000-kms.html)

So, that gives me a feeling that this must be a common issue with XUVs and they are aware of it too. Perhaps, other XUV owners can clarify.

The company had to recall a batch of vehicles for clutch issue but that was just for a batch and around Jan 2014, SOURCE
But then I cant really say if it was for same reason as mine.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Figoian (Post 422151)
If the driver is perfect, then something else is burning the clutch. They should find that route cause than fixing the issue again and again. Did you approach the same service center? If so, ask them how did they agreed to change it earlier and not now. Something fishy there...

I did ask for clarification that how come the so called 'Different clutch variant, a better one', was put in last time but instead of it serving for longer time dies out in just 22k kms instead. With same driving conditions.
The RM said that last time it was changed as good will but cant be done again. Spoke to service manager today, but it was his off so will ring him again tomorrow. But the RM had spoken to him earlier even he had same thing to say as RM.
Will try to get more info tomorrow.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Figoian (Post 422151)
True that Flywheel is a solid surface won't wear easily. However, a badly or unevenly worn clutch disc can damage or leave scoring on the flywheel which may not be used with a new clutch disc as it may damage the new one as well. Moreover, clutch replacement is one of the major work both in terms of labor and it's expense. You need to remove the entire transmission to access the clutch and then flywheel. Hence, it's advisable to replace all worn parts at one shot, unless it's perfectly fine or better.

This I agree with but then who is suppose to pay for it. Coz my stand is that its not because of driving conditions that it had worn out that fast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Figoian (Post 422151)
Talk to them and be very clear that you will not take up these costs as it's something not felt to be right. We need to find and fix the root cause to avoid any such recurrence. A normal life of clutch can vary from 70K to 150K, depending the driving conditions. If you are running about 80-90% in highway, the life of clutch to be better than a city driven car. So, please don't settle down for anything.

Even if not over 70k kms, I atleast the replaced clutch to last about 10-20k kms more than the first one. That's if the one replaced earlier was suppose to be an updated one, which they did say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Figoian (Post 422151)
Keep the thread alive.

Sure will.


And just to be clear. This is not the first time that me or Dad have driven a vehicle. Already have driven Safari, Skoda Octavia, Santro and now XUV.

kinshuk.arya 5th January 2015 09:12 AM

Re: Mahindra XUV500 Clutch Plate and Flywheel Gone Bad, Twice in 49K Kms
 
Hey man, Get in touch with bhvm, he also had the same issue past week.

What are the updates?

harishsangwan 5th January 2015 10:27 AM

Re: Mahindra XUV500 Clutch Plate and Flywheel Gone Bad, Twice in 49K Kms
 
Apologies for not updating the thread.

I got in touch with Mahindra Customer Care via Twitter and informed them about the issue. They then sent someone from their regional office to the service centre to check for the same and concluded that it was due wear and tear.
I put my points across but nothing positive came out. Decided to get the vehicle back and got the clutch changed at my friend's garage. The fly-wheel surface was kinda buffed on a lathe machine and needed no change.

I am still not convinced that its just wear & tear and hope it doesnt come up again in another 20k kms.

bhvm 5th January 2015 12:37 PM

Re: Mahindra XUV500 Clutch Plate and Flywheel Gone Bad, Twice in 49K Kms
 
Can you please share the costs you incurred vs the Mahindra costs etc?
Clutches don't go so soon.
Fortuner 70k
Safari 3.0L 89K
Jeep (UV) 1lac still working

Even in worst traffic a clutch should last 50k

harishsangwan 5th January 2015 02:28 PM

Re: Mahindra XUV500 Clutch Plate and Flywheel Gone Bad, Twice in 49K Kms
 
I dint change the flywheel so that saved me lot of money, hence cant really have a proper cost comparison. But Mahindra was quoting somewhere close to 65k for Clutch+flywheel+some clutch switch. Dont remember if this was including or exclusive of labour charge.

For the job I got done outside, it costed me 22k. It was for new clutch plate and the gear change switch I think, and the labour cost. Flywheel, as mentioned earlier was given a buff to level out the flat surface.

bhvm 5th January 2015 02:47 PM

Re: Mahindra XUV500 Clutch Plate and Flywheel Gone Bad, Twice in 49K Kms
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by harishsangwan (Post 427727)
I dint change the flywheel so that saved me lot of money, hence cant really have a proper cost comparison. But Mahindra was quoting somewhere close to 65k for Clutch+flywheel+some clutch switch. Dont remember if this was including or exclusive of labour charge.

For the job I got done outside, it costed me 22k. It was for new clutch plate and the gear change switch I think, and the labour cost. Flywheel, as mentioned earlier was given a buff to level out the flat surface.

yikes!
that's a lot man. you should really raise your voice!!

cparate 27th October 2015 01:52 PM

Re: Mahindra XUV500 Clutch Plate and Flywheel Gone Bad, Twice in 49K Kms
 
I Chandrashekhar Parate, bought Mahindra XUV 500 W10 (KA-03-MW-4776) in August 2015 (approx. 2 Months old, ran 2500Km). I went to spend my Dussehra vacation at Goa with my family (In Laws (age 72 and 60), Son (4 Yrs old) and wife.
I travelled to Goa by my almost new XUV on 19th Oct at 6PM from Bangalore and reached Hubli at 1 AM; I stayed there overnight and again started for Goa next morning around 9 AM. While traveling from Khanapur, Karnataka wild life area I noticed some issue in clutch paddle, clutch went suddenly down and was not coming up automatically, I tried to pull paddle through my leg and it came up. As it was a wild life area and single road, quite lonely so we decided not to stop there and continue the drive further to our destination. I tried to call customer care but no mobile network was available, I checked front panel if there is any indicator which shows any danger but no alert light was glowing.
I managed to reach at Goa- Karnataka border to find out that I was not able to move gear from current gear to any other gear, but when I used to switch off ignition I could move the gears. As I was moving down from Hills (Ghat) I managed to drive my XUV in 2nd gear without shifting gears. After reaching Mollem, I have contacted on MAHINDRAs toll free number and kept driving my XUV by every time shifting gears (when required) in ignition switch off mode.
After calling 4-5 times (call dropped because of network unavailability) on toll free number, I managed to talk to customer care and they agreed to send pickup truck in 2-3 hours. My family was going through the mental trauma during this 40-50 kms of drive and we all were tired especially my kid and in-laws, we managed to somehow reach our destination around 4PM. Pickup truck came around 6 PM and they took my vehicle to Muktar Automobiles, Verna industrial estate, Verna, Goa.
Next day real trauma started when I received call from Relationship Manager (Rahul Kotkar), according to him my XUVs clutch plate, Dual mass fly wheel and Cylinder Concentric were damaged and needed replacement. I was told that these parts do not come under warranty period. They asked me to pay Rs 45500/- amount for repairing. I asked them the reason of vehicle failure and the reply I got was ďbecause of bad i.e. Half Clutch DrivingĒ. I was surprised to know that after 15 years of driving experience this guy is suspecting on my driving skills. To mention, I never had any driving or car issues in my old car. I have told him that this type of issues are faced by two of my office colleague and Mahindra has replaced everything at free of cost. I was ready to give them there references but he said he will try but was not sure (All Conversation recorded)
Later I called Sireesh Auto, Service Head Mr. Sanjay Joel in Bangalore, he told me that it is not my fault and Mahindra would pay for all the damages of my XUV, he also showed sympathy towards me and assured me for help. As per him, he sent an email regarding this also provided me the contact details of Mumbai-Goa CCM (Mr. Rohan) and Bangalore region CCM (Mr. Jiju Raj). He was out of country then and I was told he would be back by Wednesday (All Conversation recorded)
I tried to call both the CCM but because of Dussehra vacation (both were not reachable). At the end of the day I could connect on Rohanís number, he told me he has noted my concerns and since it was Dussehra holiday he will not able to do anything and will get back to me on next day (23rd Oct).
Next day I spoke to Jiju Raj (Bangalore CCM), he told me he cannot do anything as Rohan is the authorized person for same and he will go with his word.
After contacting Rohan, he asked me to wait for some more time as he was discussing this issue with higher authority, ( I felt it was delaying tactics as I have told everyone that I will be leaving Goa on 24th Oct morning so they have delayed this process intentionally ) and at the end of the day Rohan mentioned me it was my fault not the company fault and I need to pay 45500 Rs for repair. I dinít had an option that time as I had to start from Goa on next morning. As they informed me on very short notice, I asked them that I will pay the dues through credit card and will come to their service station by taxi. I hired taxi for Rs 1100 and traveled 50 Km with my family and luggage to reach their service station, while en route Relation Manager called me up and told me he will not accept payment from credit card, as the machine was not working from last night. It was very difficult for me to arrange 45500 Rs in such short time (withdrawing limit on ATM Cards) but I somehow managed and paid the entire bill. I have asked Xerox of additional document other than bill but they refused to provide it saying it was against the company policies. I feel there should be no harm acquiring any document (at least in Xerox) related to my vehicle.
I had mentioned to Rohan that when my colleague had not paid single penny for same issue then why did MAHINDRA charged it to me? According to him there is an issue with my driving skills and hence this issue cropped up. He failed to let me know why such an issue would come in a new vehicle and what would be the guarantee that it would not reappear. He had given me a unique solution that one of MAHINDRAs representative will accompany me for 5-10 KM drive and observe my driving skills and will also provide suggestions on same. (All Conversation recorded).
I am asking some hard question on this forum.
1) Why did this issue crop up in 2 month old vehicle (total kilometer ran is 2500Km), I need technical answer? I know XUV recalled some models with same issue, my car was also recalled for some oil filter issue.
2) People on websites have complained about the same issue and also few XUV models have been recalled, then why this issue not acknowledged by your CCM, donít you care about consumer feedbacks?
3) I am mentioning again and again in my conversation that two of my office colleague also faced same issue and have not paid single penny, why the CCM has not taken this into consideration and checked with respective service station?
4) Why this issue is not reported in front panel light warning, MAHINDRA demo guys mentioned that if any light is not glowing in the display then everything is fine and you can drive your vehicle?
5) I was in Goa from 20th Oct to 24th Oct and was not able enjoy a single day because of this issue, I bought XUV 500 W10 in Rupees 18.70 Lacks (hard earned money) to roam around the country but I donít have confidence in this brand after my Goa trip. Now I am more scared driving this vehicle. How can anyone believe that his/her vehicle is has no issues, as brand new vehicles are all giving problems?
6) MAHINDRA CCM mentioned that this is result of bad driving and he is ready to give 10-15 min crash course on driving skills, if this type of course is required before buying the car then why donít you make compulsory training for everyone and mention it in your advertisement that ďMahindra Hamesha with good driversĒ ?
7) I have asked to provide me all technical details for failure, according to Mr. Rohan CCM they have all reports which shows driverís mistake, I asked him to provide the same but he told this is for their internal use and they will not provide any details to me. I was surprised with this statement, why donít you make it public if it is driverís mistake? (All Conversation recorded)
8) Other than bill I have asked service station to give Xerox for all document but they simply rejected my request, but I have taken photos of all documents. Why should MAHINDRA reject such a request?

I am expecting a refund for my bill and the extra expenditures incurred by me in absence of my vehicle.

msjawahar 27th October 2015 02:14 PM

Re: Mahindra XUV500 Clutch Plate and Flywheel Gone Bad, Twice in 49K Kms
 
Sorry to hear the issues that you faced. Best is shoot a mail to Anand Mahindra. Thats the right solution at this moment. Also, try to post the issues in Social Media. Only then these people will wake up.

TSIVipul 27th October 2015 04:47 PM

Re: Mahindra XUV500 Clutch Plate and Flywheel Gone Bad, Twice in 49K Kms
 
Dear Mr. Chandrashekhar

I had also faced a similar situation and my XUV never returned back from service station after that. So much was my father annoyed looking at the vehicle visiting the A.S.S. again and again. Sometimes rattles, some weird noises, some electronics failures, remote locking develops a mind of its own and what not. XUV basically is a wonderful vehicle but these issues do spoil the ownership.

I have only three questions:
Was you driving with your left foot on clutch?
Any burning smell you noticed while driving and when the car stopped?
Have you taken a good hilly route in higher gears at half clutch?

I have came across a similar XUV but the reason was a newbie driver pushing the vehicle all the way in third gear itself on a steep hilly route. The person was afraid of stopping or shifting and was simply driving in the same gear even from complete stops.

Rest a clutch going bad with just 2500 kilometers on odo raises the eyebrows. My Corolla has 1 lac+ on odo and there are no signs of clutch going bad. Ehh, such situations only make us understand the value of reliability (No offense).

Tweet this thread link directly to Mr. Anand Mahindra, he is the mighty savior of the souls in pain and the lemon stuck customers. Believe me, he is the only one who will help you get the most honest action from M&M. Still if things don't get sorted out; approach the court. Clutch going bad after just 2500 kilometers is a quality department fault and you need not to suffer for this.

Even I also want to know how they figured out that it's a drivers' mistake and not their quality issue. Try to get the documents mentioning the same (Do Mahindra fell under RTI?) even if need to go to the court, I can smell something fishy in this part. Haven't they even let you read the mistake you made? What mistake they told you that you made?

Tweeting this thread link to Mr. Mahindra, you should try to get in touch with him and M&M people will contact you themselves.

Mathew 27th October 2015 04:59 PM

Re: Mahindra XUV500 Clutch Plate and Flywheel Gone Bad, Twice in 49K Kms
 
Lots of similar cases reported on XUV5oo Clutch plate assembly. Mahindra itself recalled few vehicles to fix this issue. A similar case and an open letter to Anad Mahindra is also reported here.

Hence, we can not pin point the issue with driving habits.

TSIVipul 27th October 2015 05:02 PM

Re: Mahindra XUV500 Clutch Plate and Flywheel Gone Bad, Twice in 49K Kms
 
@Mathew:
Sirji although off topic but whenever such threads do emerge they just add a bit more of the respect for my Innova and Corolla. Owning a Toyota is really wonderful at times. I hope you also feel the same.

Now looking at such a number of cases, there are a lot of chances of a lemon being handed over to the customer. Ehh, Mahindra XUV owners; start buying the insurance schemes with engine protection too from now on wards.

bhvm 27th October 2015 05:35 PM

Re: Mahindra XUV500 Clutch Plate and Flywheel Gone Bad, Twice in 49K Kms
 
cparate,
Thats very sorry to hear from you. I have gone through the same trauma, where my XUV W8, also suffered clutch failure. The symptoms were very same as yours. The clutch pedal won't return.

Luckily we were in day time so I advised dad to immediately stop and call XUV toll free. The Vehicle was sent to PRESIDENT MOTORS, Surat which replaced the Clutch Slave cylinder free of cost and made vehicle ready the next day.

They did not harrass to carry the works in warranty, however we lost the vigil of holidays and incurred expenses due to unscheduled stop/Hotel.

I guess as you continued to drive in problem situation (You did not have option as you were in a deserted area) the clutch completely burnt and took flywheel away too. HOWEVER, Mahindra should still have replaced the components in warranty without a word. This is a well known problem and may members have got their entire clucthes replaced free of cost in similar cases to yours.

I say stand firm and insist that Mahindra refund your money as well as pay for extra stay and downtime.
Meanwhile, you may read my experiences here-
http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/fo...d-mods-22.html

My Letters to mahindra-

http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/fo...tml#post429225

Mom's letter to mahindra-

http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/fo...-49-21_542.jpg

http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/fo...-50-05_477.jpg

TSIVipul 27th October 2015 05:54 PM

Re: Mahindra XUV500 Clutch Plate and Flywheel Gone Bad, Twice in 49K Kms
 
+10 to BHVM sirji
Even I was also having this thought that maybe the small problem got bigger since the vehicle was being continuously driven despite of having the issue and maybe this is what has got the M&M guys convinced that the driver is at fault. But you can't expect anyone to stop in the middle of nowhere waiting for help; at least in an isolated jungle without even mobile network coverage. All in all M&M should provide the refund in this case.

BTW BHVM sirji can you translate that letter for us? :tongue:


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