How is Cubic Capacity Related To BHP of Engine?


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I would like to know how engine cubic capacity(cc) is related to BHP. For example Toyota liva diesel 1.4L Engine produces 67BHP while fiat quadrajet engines of 1248cc produces 74BHP. So engine capacity even if larger need not give more BHP. IF So does the torque of such an engine with larger cubic capacity gets increased at the cost of lower BHP.
 
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Re: How is Engine cubic capacity related to bhp of engine

For me it looks like it is a compromise between power and torque.
Smaller engines which has the higher power rating will have a comparitively lesser torque than that of bigger engines with a lesser power rating.

Even though a few smaller engines produce higher power, it comes only at higher rpms and due to lesser torque figures these engines will have poor response at low rpms.
 
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Re: How is Engine cubic capacity related to bhp of engine

For me it looks like it is a compromise between power and torque.
Smaller engines which has the higher power rating will have a comparitively lesser torque than that of bigger engines with a lesser power rating.

Even though a few smaller engines produce higher power, it comes only at higher rpms and due to lesser torque figures these engines will have poor response at low rpms.
Now a days the trend in newer diesel engines is to go for a turbocharger be it fixed or variable(VGT) to get more BHP.So does this turbo charger affect torque of an engine or just a better pick up.
 
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Re: How is Engine cubic capacity related to bhp of engine

Turbo is forced induction technique which was initially used to bump the engine power at certain rpm range. Now turbo charging the diesel engines are almost compulsory to meet the strict emission norms.

Turbo has a little to do with the torque because a few naturally aspirated diesels produce much more healthier torque than turbo engines.
 
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Cubic capacity is the sum of the volumes of all the cylinders of an engine. eg. a 999 cc 3 cylinder engine has 3 cylinders of 333 cm^3 each.

Torque is the work that an engine is capable of doing at a certain rpm. Can also be expressed as the force that an engine can exert on the drivetrain or pulling power of the engine.

Power is the rate at which the engine can do work (As defined by torque). It is given by the work being done multiplied by the speed at which the work is being done. Power at any rpm = Torque at that rpm x Rpm (For Horsepower we divide this figure by 5252).

The ratio of torque produced to the engine displacement is determined by the compression ratio of the engine, which is the ratio of minimum and maximum volume of the cylinder (ie. When piston is at the top and bottom of it's travel respectively). Since diesel engines have use heat of compression to burn fuel, they need a much higher compression ratio (Around 17:1) than petrol engines (Around 10:1). Hence they typically produce more torque than petrols of equivalent size.

Since diesel engines cannot usually rev as fast as a petrol one due to slow burn rate, heavy internals, longer piston stroke, etc. they tend not to have a very high peak power figure. However, you will often find that in the lower rev range diesels would be producing more power than petrols. (Since rpm is constant but torque output is higher)

Turbochargers and Superchargers both use the engine (Exhaust gases and Drive belt, resp.) to run air compressors. This compressed air increases the pre-ignition pressure inside the cylinder, resulting in more torque (and hence power) output at that engine speed.

Large turbos compress air to a very high pressure, but need to be spinning extremely fast to do this, hence are only active at high engine speeds. This creates turbo lag.

Small turbos do not have have turbo lag, but can compress air less effectively, creating a less noticeable increase in engine output.

Variable Geometry turbochargers use different methods to change their internal volume. This means that they behave as a low-pressure (small) turbo at lower rpms, and a larger one as the engine gains revs. Result is no lag, and a lot of boost at the top end.

When engineers develop an engine, they do not just try to extract the highest output figures. Engines are designed to meet an immense range of criteria including Fuel efficiency, Reliability, Cost, Part sharing, NVH, etc.

A more realistic method to compare engine output is using the power and torque curves, as this shows the usability and delivery of output figures throughout the rev range.
 
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Really informative.
I have a few doubts.
1. To attain a certain speed quickly say 60kmph, what is more necessary Power or torque given
(a) a plain road
(b) uphill?
2. If a 4WD vehicle gets stuck in mud while in 2WD and lets say we engage 4WD, to get it out of the mud, power or torque will play the most important part?
 
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Nice thread friends,

It is very common that we find the things like BHP,Torque,CC,cyl on the catalog of any car. If some body can explain in simple language that how to read these things while selecting a car or comparing a car with others and what kind of role they play in driving behavior of a vehicle.
 
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Cubic capacity is the sum of the volumes of all the cylinders of an engine. eg. a 999 cc 3 cylinder engine has 3 cylinders of 333 cm^3 each.

Torque is the work that an engine is capable of doing at a certain rpm. Can also be expressed as the force that an engine can exert on the drivetrain or pulling power of the engine.

Power is the rate at which the engine can do work (As defined by torque). It is given by the work being done multiplied by the speed at which the work is being done. Power at any rpm = Torque at that rpm x Rpm (For Horsepower we divide this figure by 5252).

The ratio of torque produced to the engine displacement is determined by the compression ratio of the engine, which is the ratio of minimum and maximum volume of the cylinder (ie. When piston is at the top and bottom of it's travel respectively). Since diesel engines have use heat of compression to burn fuel, they need a much higher compression ratio (Around 17:1) than petrol engines (Around 10:1). Hence they typically produce more torque than petrols of equivalent size.

Since diesel engines cannot usually rev as fast as a petrol one due to slow burn rate, heavy internals, longer piston stroke, etc. they tend not to have a very high peak power figure. However, you will often find that in the lower rev range diesels would be producing more power than petrols. (Since rpm is constant but torque output is higher)

Turbochargers and Superchargers both use the engine (Exhaust gases and Drive belt, resp.) to run air compressors. This compressed air increases the pre-ignition pressure inside the cylinder, resulting in more torque (and hence power) output at that engine speed.

Large turbos compress air to a very high pressure, but need to be spinning extremely fast to do this, hence are only active at high engine speeds. This creates turbo lag.

Small turbos do not have have turbo lag, but can compress air less effectively, creating a less noticeable increase in engine output.

Variable Geometry turbochargers use different methods to change their internal volume. This means that they behave as a low-pressure (small) turbo at lower rpms, and a larger one as the engine gains revs. Result is no lag, and a lot of boost at the top end.

When engineers develop an engine, they do not just try to extract the highest output figures. Engines are designed to meet an immense range of criteria including Fuel efficiency, Reliability, Cost, Part sharing, NVH, etc.

A more realistic method to compare engine output is using the power and torque curves, as this shows the usability and delivery of output figures throughout the rev range.
So what is the advantage of choosing a car with larger engine capacity(cc) but lower BHP and even lower torque at higher rpm . i am just comparing TOYOTA LIVA diesel vs QUADRAJET FIAT ENGINES in SWIFT & INDICA VISTA. Is it only the brand name of TOYOTA or a better engine life for a lower torque engine ?
 
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Really informative.
I have a few doubts.
1. To attain a certain speed quickly say 60kmph, what is more necessary Power or torque given
(a) a plain road
(b) uphill?
2. If a 4WD vehicle gets stuck in mud while in 2WD and lets say we engage 4WD, to get it out of the mud, power or torque will play the most important part?
1a. 60kph is not a very high speed, and also since you are accelerating from a standstill torque is more likely to be a factor. But since the road is even, you would want a car with the most consistent torque delivery through the rev range.
b. Low-end torque, since getting the car to overcome the force exerted by gravity (mg/Sinx) would require a lot of force.

2. Definitely torque, provided you can get the grip to use it.

Nice thread friends,

It is very common that we find the things like BHP,Torque,CC,cyl on the catalog of any car. If some body can explain in simple language that how to read these things while selecting a car or comparing a car with others and what kind of role they play in driving behavior of a vehicle.
First, I would not place much emphasis on engine displacement or cylinders. As long as you have access to output figures, engine size is irrelevant. If you want to get a picture of how powerful a car would be in the real world, I would rely more on power:weight ratio since although larger engines/cars can be more powerful, their weight can sometimes result in them being slower! Engine cylinders were more relevant in the olden days when 3- and 5- cylinder engines were not as smooth as their even-numbered counterparts. But the use of active engine mounts has made this more or less invalid.

Presuming you don't do any towing or heavy load-carrying, I would suggest requesting the manufacturer for a torque curve (Usually provided if you are insistent). Aim for a car with a smoother, flatter curve and judge the performance by the gradient. A consistent torque figure over the rev range would mean higher economy, and a curve that rises towards the right would mean a more powerful-feeling vehicle.

So what is the advantage of choosing a car with larger engine capacity(cc) but lower BHP and even lower torque at higher rpm . i am just comparing TOYOTA LIVA diesel vs QUADRAJET FIAT ENGINES in SWIFT & INDICA VISTA. Is it only the brand name of TOYOTA or a better engine life for a lower torque engine ?
To be honest, judging the life expectancy of an engine through those numbers can be incredibly difficult. Some engines are designed better such that they produce not only a higher output, but last longer as well. But this may not always be true.

A car's engine is most efficient at that rpm where it produces the most torque, sometimes manufacturers map the engines such that this figure is in the part of the rev range that is most frequently used, and you can gain fuel economy. (eg. Maruti's K10B petrol engine has peak torque at 3000rpm and a flatter torque curve for good economy even at other engine speeds)

If this is not the case, then it could be a result of the manufacturer limiting engine output to compensate for poor chassis/drivetrain design or a result of cost-cutting measures. Both of which could indicate the vehicle would have a shorter life.
 
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Presuming you don't do any towing or heavy load-carrying, I would suggest requesting the manufacturer for a torque curve (Usually provided if you are insistent). Aim for a car with a smoother, flatter curve and judge the performance by the gradient. A consistent torque figure over the rev range would mean higher economy, and a curve that rises towards the right would mean a more powerful-feeling vehicle
Just to check this scenario, we examine few different engines offered in the market. What is your take on the following.

1.5 Idtec in a Amaze
1.3 MJD in Vista
1.3 DDIS in Ritz
 
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Torque curves are below.

Honda Amaze 1.5l I-Dtec
Untitled-1.jpg

MS Ritz 1.2l DDIS, same engine as in the Swift Diesel and Tata Indica Vista Quadrajet Diesel
84889.jpg

Indica Vista 1.4l TDi
Untitled-2.png

As you can see, both the Vista TDi and Ritz Diesel have downwards sloping torque curves, which means although you will get a good wallop off the line, they would run out of puff very quickly as the revs rise. Better get used to changing gears, also efficiency would only be max. at moderate cruising speeds where engine is below 2500 rpm.

Honda amaze has a great flat curve, making it the most economical in a real-life situation. As it will be almost equally economical at all engine speeds. Will also feel more powerful than the others throughout the rev range.
 
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The amaze has the best low end torque as well at 200Nm from as low as 1000rpm. Ritz is second at 190Nm, but this value is at 2000rpm.

The Indica TDi is the only one with a fixed geometry turbo, but it's quite a small one that kicks in at 1300rpm. The others have Variable Geometry Turbos. This leads me to believe that the lag will be minimal in all of them.
 
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The amaze has the best low end torque as well at 200Nm from as low as 1000rpm. Ritz is second at 190Nm, but this value is at 2000rpm.

The Indica TDi is the only one with a fixed geometry turbo, but it's quite a small one that kicks in at 1300rpm. The others have Variable Geometry Turbos. This leads me to believe that the lag will be minimal in all of them.
I think indica vista has a FGT(TURBO CHARGER) BUT MANZA HAS A VGT.What about Toyota liva s power torque curve.
 

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