Rattling Noise from Gearbox

[jony]

hello,
My Alto lxi 2010 model is currently having some Rattling Noise problem. It began from dis January 2014. When the car is idle, the rattling noise from the gearbox can be heard. But as soon as i depressed the clutch fully, it goes away and also when accelerated, the noise goes away. In running, noise cant be heard except when AC is switch on. In idle state it makes the rattling noise and when ac is switch on, the noise is like mini generator sound.

Therefore i took to the mechanic, he 1st told me to change the gear oil, which i did, but it didn't resolved the problem, he then said that he have to open & check d gear box & also at the same time warned me not to have the gear box open currently, as he would do the work later when my clutch plate is worn out (currently, the clutch has become little hard but it is working in the way it sud be with gud pick up).

What sud i do, as he said noise wud not cause any trouble to the car except the large sound in idle state.

 

[vikalp11]

Hi Jony. I got this information from the net:

Transmission rattle is the result of repetitive impacts between lubricated surfaces in the presence of backlash at the meshing gear teeth under various loaded or unloaded conditions. Engine torque fluctuations due to combustion and the inertial forces, together with the dynamic response of the complete system, result in vibration of the lightly loaded components in the gearbox such as the idler gears, synchronizer rings and sliding sleeves within their functional clearances. Transmission of vibration from the gear shafts through bearings to the gearbox housing is the principal mechanism radiating noise to the environment.

You say when AC is switched on the rattling noise can be heard. When AC is on Engine needs to produce more power. So more RPMs of the flywheel getting transmitted to the Clutch. But it seems Clutch is not able damp the fluctuating power. Get the Clutch Damper Springs checked.

 

[vu2gte]

You will have to get your topshaft bearing replaced.

 

[jony]

thnx for the advice....but i need the root cause of such noise

 

[vu2gte]

Then you will have to go to gurgaon ask them who the supplier for your topshaft bearing is then go there and ask them why the bearing failed. You could also wait until the bearing disintegrates completely and maybe damage a lot more.

 

[nanhi99]

at what time noise is heard? is it regular or it is in morning ? please observe & tell

also ask mechanic to make sure if noise is from gearbox

 

[jony]

its not possible for me to go to gurgoan , coz i am resident outside delhi, are you guys sure its a topshaft bearing, i did some search in google with rattling noise keyword, it redirects me to some foreign websites where most people are saying it may be the case of release bearing.

hi nanhi, the noise can be heard when i start the engine & but as soon as i depressed the clutch , the noise goes away or if i accelerate then also it can 't be heard.

the noise can be heard only when the car is idle not in running & also when i turn on the ac, the noise gets very loud, like a diesel indica car

i went to mechanic , he told its a sound from gear box and told that it wont do any harm for now, other mechanic told , it may be due to loose knots inside the box ( i dont know what that means).

if i had to open a gearbox , it will min. cost me 6-7k + other charges so am confused what to do ????

 

[nanhi99]

Jony what was the quantity of gear oil you filled?
put further appx 500ml of gear oil in the gearbox & check.
clutch release bearing is fine coz if release bearing is faulty then it will make noise when clutch is pressed.

 

[loche]

seems like the input shaft bearing(what others are calling topshaft). the throwout bearing will cause noise when clutch pedal is depressed. I think you should get that repaired asap because bearing wont get better with time itll get worse and you dont want bearing fragments inside the gearbox casing going around with gearoil. Although if your car requires imminent clutch work say in a few thousand kilometers you may safely delay the job till then as clutch repair will again require the gearoil to be drained and gearbox to be dropped(labor around 800-1000). Incase you decide to get the job done now I recommend you change the clutch plate/pressure plate/throwout bearing as well since your clutch is weak. MASS charges about 1500-2000 as gearbox labour charges and you have to pay for the parts(bearings/gears/synchrohubs) required to be changed which are subsequently ordered.

 

[jony]

Hi again,

Finally I got rid of my noise problems at a massive cost. Took the car to maruti authorized workshop. Told the maruti guy and the head mechanic to see what is causing all the noise. The maruti guy had little knowledge so i continued with the head mechanic briefing all the details including all of your suggestion showing that i too have car knowledge (lol). He was quick to understand the problems. For the clutch noise that comes when pressing the clutch, he told me he needs to open and check everything related to clutch. They both gave me an official estimate of 3-4k. I have no idea regarding the price, so i thought ok. They said if the work relates only to release bearing it will cost around 1500-2000.

But for the sound from gearbox the story is different, the mechanic asked me 1st about gear oil, did I changed or not, what oil did I put. I told them i change the oil few months back. He told me I should have put dealers oil (no idea what’s that), this should stop the noise, but if it does not, they need to open the gear box and check for it & if i do officially it will cost me 10k-15k. i was like, seriously! are you kidding me. At that time i have no idea what to do. i asked them, will your dealers oil do the trick, they said may be. After that he took the driving seat and start checking the car. He immediately recognizes that my steering was hard, need some work there. Then i said about the sound that comes while pressing the brakes (right brake). He told me pad might be hard. So my budget was slowing increasing and it kept climbing after digging other small problems.

I was tense and I was seriously losing my mind. Then i asked is there any other way. They told me if i go unofficially , they will do the above work for 4k. Smile was back on my face (though I was not sure whether it was right or wrong price). i told them, please make 3k. They agreed at 3.8k.

They agreed to do the following at 3.8k
1. Stop the rattling sound from Gearbox, either by putting dealers oil or by opening it n repair what’s necessary.
2. Stopping the brake (karrrrrr) noise. By changing the pads
3. Steering was hard, making some noise while rotating 360 degree. They said boosting had to be done (have no idea at all what that means)
4. Cleaning the blower fan that was making a generator noise at max speed. I believe a leaf may have gone inside it. Charge extra 200 for it.
5. Changing the brake oil that was minimum. Flashing red near the trip meter
6. Changing the engine oil. (although not sure)
8. Coolant fill, that was the below minimum
7. Greasing
8. Simple washing of exterior
9. Putting 1 mud flap on left side that was missing.

Then i left the car, went back to home. at 12.30 pm i got a call from the maruti guy, that my clutch, flywheel etc, everything related to clutch(which was barely holding according to them) needs to be changed due to rust and other reasons which will officially cost me 6-7k. (Frequent flood and water lodging problem in our city). Only changing the release bearing will not do, as at later time i have to replace everything. So i decided to go for the entire change as i was left with little option. it was sad that clutch replacement work had to be done at 19500 km.









(old parts)

They told me they will hand over the car same day (very fast).

Around 6 pm i was delivered the car. i took a drive & out of many problems 95% was solved except a chin chin sound from the belt (i guess) can be heard when accelerating which the mechanic said it will be gone later (till date it can b heard).

For the official entire clutch work i paid Rs. 6015 and for the unofficial work i paid Rs. 3800.
Overall Rs. 9800


official bill

So my Question is, Was it worth it! Please do give some expert answers and also regarding the chin chin sound from the belt( i guess) which can be heard when accelerating.

Thank you

 

[ameyam]

Jony, find a good mechanic. Overhauling the gear box (I had it done on my Wagon R when it would periodically just refuse to go into gear) is not a day's work. Gear boxes and engines seldom, if at all, ever go wrong. If they fix what seems to be a serious problem surprisingly quickly, it means that problem was small and made out to be serious.

Secondly, when you take a car to any mechanic, he will always find issues with it. That's the way it is. You should stop and call it quits when they tell you that they will do it unofficially for a lower price- if the parts cost the same and they are using genuine stuff, why will it be significantly cheaper?

MASS is expensive because they believe in changing parts rather than fixing them. It works well but not because the original was defective in any way- it may just need some cleaning or such. So find yourself a trusted honest mechanic. When you encounter an issue to which the MASS gives a big bill, show him the car as a second opinion. If they match, only then chose where you want to get it fixed.

If you have already paid the money, just move on and treat it as an experience, whether or not that expenditure was needed. Only be careful next time you do it

Ameyam

 

[stingray91]

Repair Work seems good, what you paid is good,
The sound from engine cheek cheek,
Is it while iding?
Is it vanishes after pressing clutch?
Or it varies according to rpm?

If rpm, engine belt slipping
If clutch, adjust clutch play a 2mm

 

[jony]

hi stingray, the chin chin sound comes only while accelerating, not at constant low speed. my alto car does not have the rpm meter, but i guess yes it may vary according to RPM

 

[stingray91]

hi stingray, the chin chin sound comes only while accelerating, not at constant low speed. my alto car does not have the rpm meter, but i guess yes it may vary according to RPM

May be any bearing is in its last life, try figuring it out in neutral and rev the car.
You can move throttle in engine bay itself.
Try figuring where the sound comes from engine bay,
If its a hard tuk tuk,will be related to engine.
Else cheek cheek,my be anything
Mounts
Ball joints
Clutch assembly
bearing from tentioner or alternator

 

[ankit024]

i also recently did my clutch work...
it costed me around Rs. 3200, i took the clutch from outside basically okla MASS, and get it done from my mechnic.
but i think i heard of the that rattling noice and i might change the gear oil now after reading this.
but after the new clutch install my car have impressive power now.