Turbo Trouble - An Article from BBC

[Altoid]

Hi All,

Looks like alls not well with the small & frugal engines.

Just came across this article from BBC, thought to share with all of you and get the experts opnion on the same.

Please use the link below to read the article:

BBC - Autos - Turbo trouble

Mods please pardon if this is not under the proper Head, I pasted it here because I felt its Techincal.

 

[achinjain91]

Well, as per the fuel economy goes, I haven't had any problems with such engines. I have used TATAs Tdi and quadrajet engines. Both of these have decent acceleration and FE

 

[jayadev]

In practice, however, things are turning out differently. “On most turbo engines you need to have a very light foot to stay out of the turbo boost,” Winter said. “With some of the smallest turbo engines, there is a tendency to get into the throttle more, which uses more turbo boost and can result in worse fuel economy than a larger standard engine.”

That sounds true to my ownership experience.
and probably Fiats twin air engines too suffered this tragedy lately.

turbo makes engine lighter and smaller .
Improved fuel efficiency is more or less exaggeration.

 

[Superbad]

That gets more exaggerated on fixed geometry turbo i think.

Have observed that people used to driving FGT tend to rev their engines more to stay in the turbo range.

This in turn nullifies the advantage of a turbo.

Hence a twin stage turbo should be ideal, which would take care of the turbo lag and in turn improve fuel efficiency.

 

[autosafari]

Thought that they are talking about small petrol engines like the one in Ford Eco Sport.

 

[dharmesh]

That sounds true to my ownership experience.
and probably Fiats twin air engines too suffered this tragedy lately.

turbo makes engine lighter and smaller .
Improved fuel efficiency is more or less exaggeration.

So what they mean to say is, drive slowly to get more FE. Then I could also buy much smaller not turb engine, that will give me better performance at higher speeds as well.

 

[racerdabba]

I have said it before and will say it now.
There is NO replacement for displacement.

As per Forced Induction, be it Supercharging or Turbocharging, the higher volumetric efficiency will get better BHp figures, but torque only comes in at higher Rpms, when the charger kicks in. NA engines produce torque at much lower rpms, more so for large displacement engines, so the initial acceleration suffers and so does driveability.

 

[dharmesh]

Can twin trubo help in this case?

 

[chayan]

Hi All,

Looks like alls not well with the small & frugal engines.

Just came across this article from BBC, thought to share with all of you and get the experts opnion on the same.

Please use the link below to read the article:

BBC - Autos - Turbo trouble

Mods please pardon if this is not under the proper Head, I pasted it here because I felt its Techincal.

Close analogy I can think of is to Inverter ACs. These ACs are marketed as power-saving and that it can scale up/down depending upon requirements. So according to their marketing material, a 1.5 T can easily handle (& equivalent to) a normal 2T AC. Also when required it can consume as little power as 600Watts (i.e. when little cooling is required).
What they don't tell you is that at full load (i.e 2T for a 1.5T inverter AC), it comsumes more energy than a normal 2T AC.

So similarly it seems for Ecoboost, if you drive sedately and out of the turbo zone, it will perform as a normal 1L and hence good mileage. However once you need the extra power, push the throttle and turbo kicks in and you get the extra power (but much lower FE).
The FE figures are perhaps a little misleading (not surprised knowing Ford) and the 1L petrol seems a little under powered for EcoSport (perhaps the global 1.6L is better suited).
Again all are based on Internet research and assumptions at this point in time, but all indications are that the EB engine is not as revolutionary as it was initially made out to be.

 

[dharmesh]

Close analogy I can think of is to Inverter ACs. These ACs are marketed as power-saving and that it can scale up/down depending upon requirements. So according to their marketing material, a 1.5 T can easily handle (& equivalent to) a normal 2T AC. Also when required it can consume as little power as 600Watts (i.e. when little cooling is required).
What they don't tell you is that at full load (i.e 2T for a 1.5T inverter AC), it comsumes more energy than a normal 2T AC.

So similarly it seems for Ecoboost, if you drive sedately and out of the turbo zone, it will perform as a normal 1L and hence good mileage. However once you need the extra power, push the throttle and turbo kicks in and you get the extra power (but much lower FE).
The FE figures are perhaps a little misleading (not surprised knowing Ford) and the 1L petrol seems a little under powered for EcoSport (perhaps the global 1.6L is better suited).
Again all are based on Internet research and assumptions at this point in time, but all indications are that the EB engine is not as revolutionary as it was initially made out to be.

But if at all this is true, I dont see anything wrong in this. You are getting best of both. Drive sedate and you get excellent FE figures and push it bit harder and you get power.

 

[chayan]

But if at all this is true, I dont see anything wrong in this. You are getting best of both. Drive sedate and you get excellent FE figures and push it bit harder and you get power.

@Dharmesh - I am not saying that there is anything wrong. However the general impression is that ecoboost is a frugal engine and the report says that it is not so under some conditions.
If people keep that in mind, I think we would be OK... but they will not and hence you would have a lot or reviews with people crying on bad FE.

 

[Superbad]

That will be always be the case (low FE) if driven in wrong gear and straining the engine.

The turbos gives that added boost of power when going flat out or that extra punch of torque when the turbo is active.

On the other hand if people want to be in the turbo zone all the time only to avoid the turbo lag, that means they are driving a gear lower and at higher RPM then required.
This would translate to lower FE.

 

[jarpickle]

Just saw the latest episode of FIFTH GEAR and they rate the Ford Focus with the 1.0 litre Ecoboost engine very highly.It outdid the 1.6 litre engine offering in the same model in drag race and they also agreed on it being economical.

So I really think the testing conditions play a huge role and beside the test figures are always an exaggeration of the actual FE numbers.They say its a 20% improvement.

Our govt has a lot of tax cuts for engines with lower displacement.Hopefully that translates to lower prices for us end customers.

Surely the engine is more complex that an NA(naturally aspirated),but I think the car industry is definitely headed in the right direction to make lower displacement engines more fun to drive and also have good FE.

As Superbad pointed out, people need to learn to adapt their driving style to the turbo cars since they behave differently to the NA cars.

Heres a link to video:

Fifth Gear Season 21 Episode 7