After Sales Service, Reliability, Resale Value: At What Cost??

[gpsingin]

Indian automotive market is very unique compared to other similar or larger sized markets. The uniqueness being in the market share of topmost players. There is no other example like India where top 2 or topmost player has so much market share. Now this may have some inherent advantages but frankly it frustrates me like anything.The reason being the biased purchase decision we as customers are forced into making due to this imbalance in the market.We Indians are traditionally conservative, mostly by nature of our values and economic status. Thus our car purchase decisions are no different especially also when it involves a lifetime savings being spent by some folks.
Now by virtue of the above mentioned we Indians are bound to lookout for every opportunity of savings, be it looking for value for money products or savings on after sales or repairs etc.

For the matter of fact few players entered our auto market fairly early.Few had clear vision regarding the need of Indian customers while others just could not gauge that well.Also India being a dynamic, diverse & developing nation, the job becomes more critical.Hence some succeeded, some did not, some are trying & some have given up. The huge imbalance in market share is somewhat due to above factors & vice versa.

Now we being customers should not care much about car companies making profit, minting money or running in loss. All we should care about is getting the max value for money spent & that what we exactly do, & rightly so.But some manufacturers due to multiple factors have just read our pulse too well & thus have been able to deeply divert our focus to a.s.s/reliability/resale value. On flip side diverting us from our main aim - of getting value for money products. These manufacturer's also are able to do so due to their advantageous position in market.

Don't get me wrong I don't say a.s.s/resale etc are not important. These things also contribute to value of product, only that I dare to question one thing - to what extent??

To put things in prospective I beg to throw in a market example.

Kindly note I don't mean to be biased towards any manufacturer in particular but rather only divert attention towards my point of view.

For eg: Manufacturer "M. S" having market share of 47% has a large selling compact sedan priced 8 lakh for top end model.

Also, Manufacturer "F" having market share 4% has a slow selling compact sedan priced 7 lakh for top end model.

Clearly Former car will get better resale/a.s.s. We can count reliability at par for the sake of this comparison.

Now due to car getting better a.s.s & resale, naturally most buyers will tend to purchase the former. But certain key factors get ignored here meanwhile. The latter was a better equipped car, had much better engine, overall quality. Also latter was priced whopping 1 lakh less. Thus despite being an inferior product otherwise, the former manufacturer was able to charge a whopping premium over the latter and also sells in huge numbers just by virtue of said to be better a.s.s & resale value.

But did anyone think on below lines -

1.Isnt it that the former has already charged a lakh extra, so count resale value accordingly depreciating from 8 lakh instead of 7 for the latter?

2.No one has tried a.s.s of latter, only word to mouth publicity, dats it?

3.What came first egg or chicken? how will a.s.s or resale of latter improve , if we keep on buying inferior products from former that too at a premium?

4.Isnt it that former should be actually selling their product at a lower price since they sell in huge numbers, so margins can be lowered?

5.Bigger picture - Don't u think market share imbalance will harm us in long term due to this bias in public buying.

6.On a more practical aspect.. The former product should had been priced 6.5lakh or so(being inferior product than latter), so does the 1.5lakh you paid extra worth to offset the better a.s.s & resale value u expect of the product..? For this consider u bought the latter for 8 lakh( or why not just add 1.5 lakh to actual resale value u get while selling latter)?

Overall, I hope I was able to make my point.

Comments invited. I am a very new member here, so request members to be a bit considerate on mistakes.

Continue revving folks.

 

[Tornado]

It seems, you haven't heard of ' herd mentality'!
Herds follow what what others are doing and are happy with that.

A person who has bought the later brand (as mentioned by you), he can invest the remaining money (Rs 1L)in the fix deposit scheme, and if he sells the car at the end of 7 years he will be having resale value of the car +Rs 2 lakh.
The not so good resale value of the later brand + extra Rs 2 L is such a big amount which the former brand car 's resale value can never compensate. But we people like to copy the answers of mathematics exam rather than calculating our own answer.

 

[soap]

First of all, I own a "M.S" car and I had owned a car from "F". Though both are in different segments. I also own a car from "S".

Let me put forth my comments on a.s.s

Yes, "F" was atrociously bad when I first bought 7 years back. It was exorbitant and supplies were scarce. But I have seen the progress from bad to good. It is actually one of the best in the market - much better than "M.S". Today, I would argue, "F" has one of the lowest a.s.s costs. In fact, I had the opposite problem with "F". I would ask them to replace a part and they would encourage me not change the part and wait for the next service. As a cynic, I think that it is quite possible that the upper management keeps a tab on these things and giving a big bill to a customer would invite their wrath.

Coming to "M.S", my father had one and the costs were manageable - for a middle class family man. Today, "M.S." costs have gone up without doubt. They fleece money at the drop of a hat and push a variety of c**p to their customers. But then again, a.s.s. for a "M.S" car is much cheaper at a third party compared to "F" at the authorized centre. Mind you, some of these third party people are quite competent especially for "M.S".

The inertia of "M.S" a.s.s being cheap is still drawing people to the showrooms. Or, people are smart enough to go third party for their a.s.s needs. While, the opposite is true for "F".

Now for re-sale

I sold my "F" car and my colleague sold his "M.S" car at the same time. Both were from the same segment and both had aged 7 years. I got more for my car. Mostly for two reasons - My car was diesel and I sold it to a private person after a searching for a buyer for a long time. My colleague just sold it to a second hand car dealer.

My point is that after sufficient time, re-sale value may not be a strong enough point to buy one car over the other.

And finally my comments to the questions that you posted.
1. If one is going to sell the car in 3-5 years (which is a most likely scenario in my area). The extra 100,000 can easily be recouped. The depreciation is the steepest during the initial years and "M.S" holds ground better than any other manufacturer.
2. Word of mouth is way more stronger than objectivity in our milieu. How do you think I was forced to buy a "M.S". Mercifully, that was not the case with"S" car
3. I think a.s.s and re-sale are two different things and they can tackled independently. Thanks to the internet, the perception about a.s.s. is bound to change. I am not sure about the re-sale value though
4. When I am already selling more than combined numbers of the competition why would i reduce the price? There are "x" no of cars that can be sold in a particular segment and since I have already cornered a major chunk of this segment, I might as well jack up the price.. and rack in more moolah
5. I think there has already been damage for the industry - lack of safety features, equating VFM with fuel efficiency etc etc are common across manufacturers now.
6. See point 4

Phew, that was a long rant by me..

 

[gpsingin]

I m happy I was able to convey my point. I own a 'V' a 'M.S' & a 'Hy'. Also owned a 'H' before.. Somehow I find most value for the money spent on 'V'... Somehow always feel a void for the money spent on ' M.S'. Also was content with 'H'.... 'Hy' has always confused me most.Still I found it righteous to choose a 'F' for the example

 

[Tornado]

Actual truth behind labelling a brand as 'best ASS' brand is that many people don't know what's the definition or criteria for labeling it as best ASS.

For example, V brand doesn't offer first three free servicings, and the brand which offers it is called as better ASS brand not withstanding the fact that first is mere inspection of the car and rest two servicings are just labour charges free and not the consumables.

Other example : V brand uses synthetic oil, calls vehicle for servicing every 15 kkm while MS uses mineral oil & calls the vehicle every 10 kkm for servicing! So at the end of 1 L km, V brand gives total 4 servicings cost free while the MS car comes for servicing for 10 times.
So finally who has got better ASS?

The MS brand need to pay royalty on the borrowed engine 's spare parts to the original manufacturer making the engine spares costlier than the original brand.

 

[Akash1886]

Friends,

Requesting you to use full names of the brands being discussed on this thread because it is difficult to understand abbreviations like Hy, V, H, F et al. Moreover, F can be confused with Ford as well as Fiat same way T can be confused with TATA and Toyota, M can be confused with Mahindra or Mitsubishi etc.

Please for benefit of all the members, kindly use full forms of the brands so that more precise discussion can continue.

Regards

Akash

 

[Tornado]

I think the abbreviations are used purposefully so as to avoid fanboyism & brand bashing and to promote research by the car buyers before following the herd.

 

[Akash1886]

I think the abbreviations are used purposefully so as to avoid fanboyism & brand bashing and to promote research by the car buyers before following the herd.

See, being mass read forum, and having sizable member base, not every member will be as conversant with these abbreviations. So, using full name would help in better understanding.

Regards

Akash

 

[gpsingin]

Friends,

Requesting you to use full names of the brands being discussed on this thread because it is difficult to understand abbreviations like Hy, V, H, F et al. Moreover, F can be confused with Ford as well as Fiat same way T can be confused with TATA and Toyota, M can be confused with Mahindra or Mitsubishi etc.

Please for benefit of all the members, kindly use full forms of the brands so that more precise discussion can continue.

Regards

Akash

Thanks for your boost
I recently joined the forum, so was a bit in doubt whether to use proper brand names or not.Didnt wanted to offend the members & also didn't wanted to unintentionally tarnish brand names. But if fruitful sane discussions can take place even while using brand names then y not? I used M. S for Maruti Suzuki, F for Ford, V for Volkswagen, H for Honda, Hy for Hyundai...

 

[Akash1886]

Thanks for your boost
I recently joined the forum, so was a bit in doubt whether to use proper brand names or not.Didnt wanted to offend the members & also didn't wanted to unintentionally tarnish brand names. But if fruitful sane discussions can take place even while using brand names then y not? I used M. S for Maruti Suzuki, F for Ford, V for Volkswagen, H for Honda, Hy for Hyundai...

No issues buddy, now, until you clarified, I was confused whether "V" stood for VW or for Volvo. Also, no brand and no car is 100% perfect so highlighting the positives and negatives of brands (with full names) would help the readers/members in making an informed decision.

Regards

Akash

 

[generalmax]

It is good that a healthy discussion about the ASS and Resale value come up in this forum. I can say Maruti have been ripping Indians off in the name of nationalism, Service centers and Warranty. Maruti would have been good till the end of the last decade. Currently all manufacturers are good with machines and service.It is a myth that Maruti service is cheap. I asked for a 5000 Km service for my car, and the handsome Service adviser put it as running repair. I asked him why? He said, if I put it as a 5K service, the management will ask where is the oil change? See, the way ASS works.

Compared to that my Mahindra or Toyota experience was very good as the vehicles have lesser oil change intervals and they don't take customers for granted. My friend who is having a VW polo have less ownership cost than my Swift.

All must know that Maruti had invested heavily in media and in our minds. It will take decades for old customers to change, but new customers can definitely change the current scenario. The resale value must be calculated on the condition of vehicle rather than the name of the manufacturer.

Reliability has been questionable in the new cars from Maruti. VW and Fiat is a long way ahead in this case.

 

[gpsingin]

The world is not perfect & nothing is permanent.I wish there was a car with the Shape of a baleno, fit & finish of a elite i20, build quality of a Punto,technology of a GT TSI, reliability of a Toyota,a.s.s of a Swift,resale value like of a Royal Enfield Bullet & price of a Figo.
But Only if wishes had wings!!
Till then let d debate continue & choose wisely.

 

[Prabhagar]

2.No one has tried a.s.s of latter, only word to mouth publicity, dats it?
3.What came first egg or chicken? how will a.s.s or resale of latter improve , if we keep on buying inferior products from former that too at a premium?

We hesitate to even give a chance to the so-called poor A.S.S manufacturers. I own a Tata Tiago and literally see a lot of improvements on their service center experience vs what people bad mouth about them.
At least the younger gen folks among us should choose cars wisely and try out competition's cars. After all, our market is flooded with choices and slowly but steadily it is transforming to consumer-driven vs one man show.

 

[a4arun]

Car happens to be the next big buy after a house for an average Indian. So I do not think they would want to take any chances. So they either rely on their previous experiences or depend on the others experience. if it happens to be negative then they can be really ruthless. just ask Tata and Ford. However if they happen to have a satisfactory experience then they will shower their love. Just ask Maruthi and Hyundai. Manufacturers needs to understand that we are a closely knit group and the word of mouth spreads faster than a bushfire.

 

[gpsingin]

I have owned one apiece vehicles from Volkswagen, Hyundai, Suzuki, Honda. Volkswagen is new so can't really comment on a.s.s.For others there had been never any niggles, no even penny apart from service, although Hyundai service found relatively expensive.So reliability was at par in my case. Volkswagen service is expensive too, but long service interval brings it on par with Suzuki/Honda.
Regarding resale I got better than expected for my Honda Brio, others I still own. But poor resale for topnotch products from Fiat/Volkswagen/Tata etc is very demoralizing & frustrating,although a boon for enthusiasts looking in resale market but not good for industry overall. Just see what Ford did. They tried to do a Suzuki by making tin can like Figo twins(although still better built than a suzuki & very value cars) & still failed.It was a forced deviation, must have been very difficult for Ford to deviate from their core values.