Tata's New Family of 1.2L, 3 Cylinder, Petrol Engines: Revotron a Stop Gap!

AMG · 28th July 2014, 01:45 AM

Name one good Tata Petrol engine.

Akash · 28th July 2014, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMG

Name one good Tata Petrol engine.

Agreed. But that doesnt mean TATA can never make good engine

. Dont demotivate them, who knows, they might be reading this

.

I am sure the new engine would be tested by our Road test team soon and that will clarify all the doubts. For now, we can give TATA a benefit of doubt

.

MSN1 · 28th July 2014, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMG

Name one good Tata Petrol engine.

let me say a good engine in terms of What indian customers wants in their petrol car ?

cheeper price
lower cost of maintance
good mileage

according to the above three requirements "TATA NANO" fits the bill very much well for the low income group as well, in case of doubt you can check with our member saishibu38380 or refer [COLOR=#0066cc]http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/forums/ownership-reviews/6647-tata-nano-its-best.html[/COLOR] thread

and its 664cc engine does makes more sound but havent given any trouble

do not compare NANO against with the BHP or HP kind of stats of figures of Honda Civic or Skoda Octavia

NANO engine may take its own time to reach 100 kmph or 90 kmph speed but it was not made for the racing purpose

(not just nano we have the burning pictures of even BMW and many top brand cars)

AMG · 28th July 2014, 02:11 AM

Agreed.

I have nowhere said that its a bad engine. Tata didnt have a good enough petrol engine at this point in time, so they plonked in a Turbo on the xeta engine, for the time being. No harm in doing that.
So it is essentially a stop gap measure.

What I'm against is the advertising and marketing of this engine like its the best thing ever.
When its not your best thing, dont advertise it as if it is.
My sole grudge is with the way its being marketed.

@ MSN1

The engine is down on BHP/cc as compared to a 15 year old Turbo Petrol car vRS. (Yes, I do insist on comparing a turbo petrol with a turbo petrol) Fact. So not a performance car.

Fuel efficiency is not going to be all that great, because its a Xeta block. But I'll wait till the ARAI figures are out

Lower cost of maintenance: Well how low? Significantly lower than Maruti? Nope. Dont think so. So its not winning that one either.

Cheaper price Again not cheap enough to make a substantial difference.

MSN1 · 28th July 2014, 03:45 AM

OMG first time seeing some one telling TATA cars are expensive to own and cost of maintance is high

Akash · 28th July 2014, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMG

Agreed.

I have nowhere said that its a bad engine. Tata didnt have a good enough petrol engine at this point in time, so they plonked in a Turbo on the xeta engine, for the time being. No harm in doing that.
So it is essentially a stop gap measure.

What I'm against is the advertising and marketing of this engine like its the best thing ever.
When its not your best thing, dont advertise it as if it is.
My sole grudge is with the way its being marketed.

But then which company doesnt market their product as if it is the best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSN1

OMG first time seeing some one telling TATA cars are expensive to own and cost of maintance is high

Even I would agree with AMG for this point. TATA cars do have higher maintenance cost, but then the sole reason for that is the poor ASS. However that is what this thread is all about.

BoltFromTheBlue · 28th July 2014, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMG

90 from 1.2 is without Turbo, my friend.

How does Skoda get 270 BHP from a 2.0 Petrol Vrs?
Logically, it implies 135 BHP/litre, so do the math.

120 BHP from a Turbo petrol is not huge.

YEar 2000 octy had 150 bhp from a 1.8 turbo petrol.
so that makes it 50bhp/600 cc = 100bhp from a 1.2.

Tata hasnt even beaten a 15 year old benchmark.

"best engine" my foot.

Don't you think the engineers at Tata Motors know all this simple math?

The point here is they can squeeze more power out of that tiny 1.2 engine. But who will pay for that extra power? Look at the competetion at which these engines are launced. Tell me apart from Honda Amaze (10 bhp more) which other engine is delivering more like you said 120 bhp?

Its all how they tune and how much power they want to pull it out from that so that it suits the budget, class in which it is launched.

For instance look at the engine of Aria earlier. It was generating 140 bhp. Now they are squeezing 150 bhp from the same engine? How would that be possible. You cannot simply generalize that the company is uncapable of doing it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMG

Agreed.

I have nowhere said that its a bad engine. Tata didnt have a good enough petrol engine at this point in time, so they plonked in a Turbo on the xeta engine, for the time being. No harm in doing that.
So it is essentially a stop gap measure.

What I'm against is the advertising and marketing of this engine like its the best thing ever.
When its not your best thing, dont advertise it as if it is.
My sole grudge is with the way its being marketed.

Thats how the marketing strategies work for any company. No product from any stable like Honda, Hyundai or the Suzukis is the best. They themselves overtake it for the entire life of their company. Thats R&D. Its all worth at a particular instance in time.

BTW, how many Hondas, skodas, Suzukis, Toyotas have been recalled back the world over? Why do those best companies!?!?! with best products do so!?!?!? Its all marketing strategy for everyone of the company to leap ahead.

BTW, what i feel is numbers on papers are something to be kept aside and not to be discussed so much here on forums. They are just an indication. But the real power delivery, how the car handles and rides, is it peppy are the things to be thought of more by anyone.

FOr instance, look at the comparisions of Hyundai's cars with German cars. The numbers of Korean car are much higher than those of Germans on the paper. But finally both feel the same on the road. Why? Does that mean that Hyundais are cheating (infact they may be as they are already neck deep with the mileage cheating issues). Its upto the wise buyers to test drive the products unbiasedly and come to a conclusion. BTW, by looking at the past history you cannot judge any company as they are always trying to improve and this time in a very big way.

AMG · 28th July 2014, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoltFromTheBlue

Look at the competetion at which these engines are launced. Tell me apart from Honda Amaze (10 bhp more) which other engine is delivering more like you said 120 bhp?

Tell me apart from the Revotron, which other engine has a Turbo Petrol?

navnit013 · 28th July 2014, 01:39 PM

PPfffff.

Now why would TATA run the engine on the limits and keep their fingers crossed on issues of reliability. The segment at which the product has been launched, that power and torque figures are more than sufficient.

Now to the point @AMG was making. Now Mecedes, BMW and likes can give you car with 500 horses that can rip off the tyres off in secs. They provide that because thier customers can handle the cost associated with it. Now in a segment where the tyres are changed every 50000 kms, if you provide extra horses just cause you can, you are not doing things right.

gaddambhargavareddy · 28th July 2014, 04:49 PM

actually TATA working on two versions of 1.2NG(1197cc) Revotron series one is natural aspirated 1197cc 3cylinder motors features few technologies like

All allumium block

4valves per cylinder (12valves)

DOHC

Smart Intake VCT with chain drive system

produces max power 85pc @6000rpm

max torque 115NM @3500

another version of this engine we have scene in TATA Nexon concept

this is a turbo charged version of 3cylinder 1.2NG revotron

its produces 110PS max power and 170NM max torque

furious_driver · 28th July 2014, 04:59 PM

Let's wait and see the sales numbers and any complaints in the first batch. Key factors here will be pricing and good A.S.S.

I agree with @AMG and most of his points looks solid. But on the other hand, i kinda like ZEST and comparing the competition, engine is neither sloucher nor a great improvement. When I was looking at news, i thought they have come up with something new, but seeing Revotron is just an improved Xeta engine, it was kinda downer to me.

May be they will take some time, to come up with all new engine and according to me, this Revotron is introduced just to fill that void and take up the sales of compact sedan space, which is hot selling as of now.

jagrover · 28th July 2014, 08:10 PM

Where the hell Tata claimed it is best..???

At what time you heard about Tata developing turbo petrol before the Horizonext?? So its something they made within a short span of time.

Superbad · 28th July 2014, 08:20 PM

Quote:

The point here is they can squeeze more power out of that tiny 1.2 engine. But who will pay for that extra power? Look at the competetion at which these engines are launced. Tell me apart from Honda Amaze (10 bhp more) which other engine is delivering more like you said 120 bhp?

May be the ecoboost engine? 1.0l with 120ps.

Point being tata might have introduced it in a detuned mode to extract more mileage out of it.
from the ACI review atleast, there aint much of a difference with the drive modes.

the engine would have been a talk of the town had it made power figures rivalling the VW Polo GT Tsi petrol.

TAUREAN CZAR · 28th July 2014, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMG

And I do expect an increase in mileage by about 1 kmpl at the very max, courtesy the turbo, but the power's gone up too, so dont bet on it.

Plus Tata's never made a good engine till date. Never has, Never (probably) will.

I feel this is a totally ridiculous comment just aimed at maligning one company who has been struggling hard to bring the country's name onto the worlds automotive chart.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMG

Still, even if it up to 89 BHP, thats not a huge achievement, is it?

Skoda got 150 BHP from their vRS Turbo Petrols 1.8 in the year 2000, and it gave an FE of 12-14.
And thats a decade and a half back.
Skoda these days gets 270 BHP from their new TSI Vrs octy. Its no sin to expect 120 bhp from a 1.2 Turbo Petrol engine.

Bro! I don't think TATA is making any sports car for you to race around the city. They are giving a refined and well powered engine to prevent you from slugging in the city's stop-go traffic along with a decent pick up on the highway, which is the demand of the day. You cannot expect much for the money you are going to pay.

Coming to the petrol engines, it is true that TATA motors did not concentrate on them as they believed diesels are the order of the day and they anticipated india as a diesel market. Neither did they anticipate export market in the inception.

Leaving all that aside, you cannot simply pass leude comments on one company at you whims and fancies. They have woke up to understand that petrol engines are too important and have working on them. Remember they have the Warwick University based TMERC's 1000 strong engineers who have also been instrumental in making the Ingenium series engines to help TML engineers work on the upcoming series engines. Remember the REVOTRON engines can power the lower models of JLR and the Ingenium can power the top end TATA vehicles and step up and step down features and tuning may easily work out. (Renault engines do the duty on the small Mercedes cars!)

Yes, it is true that TATA had a priority on JLR are they invested 2 billion dollars on their acquisitions which was three time their net worth then. Because of which they neglected the passenger segment.

TATA has all the power in the world to bounce back and now they are it. Even Sir Ratan Tata commented that 'TATA MOTORS will be a fully matured company by 2020'. But looks like they will achieve that much sooner.

AMG · 28th July 2014, 10:26 PM

Okay. Lets (grudingly) leave power aside for a minute.

Explain why is this still cast iron? We are living in 2014. Almost every car her engine is Aluminium.

And explain why is this just a Xeta block with a turbo, instead of an all new engine from the ground up.

And also explain, why is it being marketed as being revolutionary?