Volkswagen: More Fresh Cheating. Now Petrol Engine!

[rselva]

Volkswagen has found data "inconsistencies" on carbon dioxide emissions from 800,000 more cars, the scandal-hit manufacturer said on Tuesday.
The new discovery mainly affects small diesel engines and one gasoline engine and could cost Europe's biggest car-maker around €2 billion (£1.4bn).
VW said it would immediately start talking to "responsible authorities" about what to do about the latest findings. This is not related to the EPA accusation of 3.0 liter engine having defeat devices. Apparently that will be proven at a later date!

"VW is leaving us all speechless," said Arndt Ellinghorst of banking advisory firm Evercore ISI. "It seems to us that this is another issue triggered by VW's internal investigation and potentially related to Europe."
Read more at Reuters VW says fuel usage understated on some models; Porsche warns | Reuters
and at Emissions 'inconsistencies' on 800,000 more VW cars - ITV News

For the record, I think VW vehicles are far far better than millions of trucks on our road, but it is not a question of pollution- it is a question of how VW has been cheating shareholders and customers for so long.

 

[acechip]

Re: Volkswagen - More Fresh Cheating, now includes Petrol Engine !

Volkswagen has found data "inconsistencies" on carbon dioxide emissions from 800,000 more cars, the scandal-hit manufacturer said on Tuesday.
The new discovery mainly affects small diesel engines and one gasoline engine and could cost Europe's biggest car-maker around €2 billion (£1.4bn).
VW said it would immediately start talking to "responsible authorities" about what to do about the latest findings. This is not related to the EPA accusation of 3.0 liter engine having defeat devices. Apparently that will be proven at a later date!

For the record, I think VW vehicles are far far better than millions of trucks on our road, but it is not a question of pollution- it is a question of how VW has been cheating shareholders and customers for so long.

Even statistically, that comparision with trucks doesnt hold water. For every 10 trucks emitting high amounts of NO2/CO2, there are a 100 VW cars which have been "designed" to cheat. I 'd take an openly honest, wheezing, badly maintained truck emitting black smoke over a sleek VW sedan/hatchback that emits foul fumes and slinks away fast. Silent but Deadly.

 

[pradeephk]

Re: Volkswagen - More Fresh Cheating, now includes Petrol Engine !

VW seems to be in deep trouble. I am not sure if there is more to be unearthed. As you sow, so you reap. This bad karma will haunt them for years to come.

 

[hemantp]

Re: Volkswagen - More Fresh Cheating, now includes Petrol Engine !

After today's news about ARAI finding VW cheating in India and subsequent (possible) show cause notice from Indian Govt, I think VW are gone...

 

[Vishwas]

Re: Volkswagen - More Fresh Cheating, now includes Petrol Engine !

Seeing all these incidents from the Auto giants makes us feel that we should stick to our own home-grown products. After reading this article, I'm Sad to know that these people are not concerned any-more on human values but just to make money. Wish them failure.

 

[acechip]

Re: Volkswagen - More Fresh Cheating, now includes Petrol Engine !

This will definitely take a sheen off the so-called German superiority in automotive engineering, which is nothing but a bit of a sham atleast as far as VW is concerned. In fact, I wont be surprised if their engines, once "cleaned up" for emission compliance, turn out to be relatively poor in performance, with power and torque figures dropping lower than their competitors. And here is the worst part. VW is not NEW to emission deception!
Volkswagen's History Of Emissions Deception Dates Back To The 1960s

 

[rselva]

Re: Volkswagen - More Fresh Cheating, now includes Petrol Engine !

Even statistically, that comparision with trucks doesnt hold water. For every 10 trucks emitting high amounts of NO2/CO2, there are a 100 VW cars which have been "designed" to cheat.....

Well, I don't agree about the statistical part. VW has just about 3% market share, whereas new trucks sales is an average 5% of total vehicles sold every year for the last 5 years. So ,any day trucks outnumber VW. Moreover, trucks are commercial vehicles and ply more distance in a day, which amounts to more NOx per day than VW could achieve. Not only is the amount spewed by trucks more, the concentration of pollutants is also more. Even if the truck complies with the norms, the BSI IV NOx norms for trucks is higher than LCVs

 

[pavi]

Re: Volkswagen - More Fresh Cheating, now includes Petrol Engine !

Well, I don't agree about the statistical part. VW has just about 3% market share, whereas new trucks sales is an average 5% of total vehicles sold every year for the last 5 years. So ,any day trucks outnumber VW. Moreover, trucks are commercial vehicles and ply more distance in a day, which amounts to more NOx per day than VW could achieve. Not only is the amount spewed by trucks more, the concentration of pollutants is also more. Even if the truck complies with the norms, the BSI IV NOx norms for trucks is higher than LCVs

In what ever way, be it statistical, economical or 'whatever'tical let me ask each one of you,
1. Does the air in India stays in India only?
2. Does the air in America resides only in America?
3. Does the air need any passport or customs check to cross countries?

If your answer is a NO, then it does not matter if it is America or India or even Uttopia VW have made car engines that pollutes the air in greater amount. Please don't jump into saying "Industries pollute more than VW". The actual issue is not completely about VW cars polluting the air, it is they have made a cheat device (in simple terms, a code snipppet embedded in ECU which is invoked under test conditions to give controlled or desired output) in their cars to pass the emission tests. Very simple sentence right. What if I make it like "VW have implemented a technology in cars which does not value environment, human life and ethics which should be basic of any business".

Note : For the people who want to counter argue me by saying what value does "cigarette" companies have for human life, environment etc, at least they are displaying in their products "Cigarette smoking is injurious to health" (yes, as per the LAW).

 

[incarnation]

Re: Volkswagen - More Fresh Cheating, now includes Petrol Engine !

In another major blow to car-makers Volkswagen, the central Government will issue a show-cause notice to the company as three of their diesel models have failed the emissions tests here on Wednesday.
Automotive Research Association of India (ARAI), the testing agency in India, said they have found significant variation in emission level in on-road vehicles of 3 Volkswagen models compared to laboratory measurements. These vehicles include the Volkswagen Jetta, Audi A4 and Volkswagen Vento.
Ambuj Sharma, Additional Secretary, Heavy Industries Ministry said, "The Government will issue a show-cause notice to Volkswagen Group of companies. According to the testing agency ARAI, they have found significant variation in emission level in on-road vehicles of 3 Volkswagen models compared to laboratory measurements."
This has come as a major blow for the company in the country after the scandal broke out on September 18, when the parent company, Volkswagen AG said the scandal could cost the company more than USD 18 billion.
On October 13, Volkswagen India said they would present their own evaluations of vehicle emissions of various vehicles in the country by November.
"Since there is a complex combination of several brands, various models, different engine variants and gearboxes as well as different model years that need to be analysed, establishing detailed facts is taking a longer time," said a statement issued on behalf of the company.
According to CNBC-TV18, Volkswagen India is likely to recall 100,000 cars in the country impacted by the diesel emission scandal.
Moreover, Volkswagen India had made a recall of 389 units of Volkswagen Polo on October 9, but the company claimed that the recall had nothing to do with the emissions scandal and was to rectify faulty handbrake.
"In the context of a voluntary safety measure, Volkswagen Passenger Cars in India is calling 389 Polo cars from a single batch of production from the month of September 2015 for inspection and preventive repair of the handbrake mechanism," Volkswagen India said in a statement.
In the US, Volkswagen AG faces fine of up to USD 18 billion. Models such as Jetta from Volkswagen and Audi A3, which are sold in India too, have been affected by the scandal.
Volkswagen has admitted that 11 million diesel cars worldwide were fitted with devices that can switch on pollution controls when they detect the car is undergoing testing.

Source: India Today

 

[rselva]

Re: Volkswagen - More Fresh Cheating, now includes Petrol Engine !

In what ever way, be it statistical, economical or 'whatever'tical let me ask each one of you,
1. Does the air in India stays in India only?
2. Does the air in America resides only in America?
3. Does the air need any passport or customs check to cross countries?

If your answer is a NO, then it does not matter if it is America or India or even Uttopia VW have made car engines that pollutes the air in greater amount. Please don't jump into saying "Industries pollute more than VW". The actual issue is not completely about VW cars polluting the air, it is they have made a cheat device (in simple terms, a code snipppet embedded in ECU which is invoked under test conditions to give controlled or desired output) in their cars

I do mention in my OP that

...but it is not a question of pollution- it is a question of how VW has been cheating shareholders and customers for so long.

. I was arguing about the statistical part alone in my 2nd post. However, I disagree that VW is more of a threat than other sources of pollutants - including industries and vehicles of other brands. How do you justify that statement statistically ?

 

[pavi]

Re: Volkswagen - More Fresh Cheating, now includes Petrol Engine !

I do mention in my OP that
. I was arguing about the statistical part alone in my 2nd post. However, I disagree that VW is more of a threat than other sources of pollutants - including industries and vehicles of other brands. How do you justify that statement statistically ?

Noone (as far as I know) has posted or even meant "VW engines are the main or the largest source for pollution". Everybody are mentioning the 'cheating' stuff that they have been doing for such a long time.

And by the way if VW itself is accepting that they have done fraud in passing emission tests, why the hell are we interested in some statistical analysis here. It is plain cheating and the whole world knows that. And the funny or I would say the pathetic part of this dieselgate scam is "VW diesel engines failed to pass even INDIAN standards which are actually very low".

 

[generalmax]

Re: Volkswagen - More Fresh Cheating, now includes Petrol Engine !

This is a case of ego.In order to show that they are best in the business VW had made a mess out of themselves. Basically India is very less affected as no one had actually checked the same with cars in India. VW make good vehicles,we know but shortcuts are not supported in the industry.

 

[Vishwas]

Re: Volkswagen - More Fresh Cheating, now includes Petrol Engine !

Well, I don't agree about the statistical part. VW has just about 3% market share, whereas new trucks sales is an average 5% of total vehicles sold every year for the last 5 years. So ,any day trucks outnumber VW. Moreover, trucks are commercial vehicles and ply more distance in a day, which amounts to more NOx per day than VW could achieve. Not only is the amount spewed by trucks more, the concentration of pollutants is also more. Even if the truck complies with the norms, the BSI IV NOx norms for trucks is higher than LCVs

As a whole, Trucks cannot be taken into consideration when compared what VW does because they are the mode for a day to run, whereas VW can research and bring in less polluting vehicles.

 

[rselva]

Re: Volkswagen - More Fresh Cheating, now includes Petrol Engine !

....And by the way if VW itself is accepting that they have done fraud in passing emission tests, why the hell are we interested in some statistical analysis here. It is plain cheating and the whole world knows that. .....And the funny or I would say the pathetic part of this dieselgate scam is "VW diesel engines failed to pass even INDIAN standards which are actually very low".

Statistics came up in the thread here:

Originally Posted by acechip

Even statistically, that comparision with trucks doesnt hold water. For every 10 trucks emitting high amounts of NO2/CO2, there are a 100 VW cars which have been "designed" to cheat

and again, I do agree that VW's cheating is despicable. Of Course, it is long known (I have commented in Team Bhp forum) that VW failed even BS IV norms.

 

[jazzyb5454]

Re: Volkswagen - More Fresh Cheating, now includes Petrol Engine !

After this scandal I hope VW will not windup its business in India, "fingers crossed". They took shortcut for success which is very wrong and they should be penalized, but the government should also think of the people who have bought their cars.
Will ARAI check the emissions of other vehicle manufactures or it will wait till they disclose it voluntarily.
Disclaimer: I love VW cars, they make good cars and i own 2 VW polo's. I hope this issue resolves fast.