Pre-Purchase Queries: New Car For Rs.40 Lakhs


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Hello,

First of all a very good afternoon to all the members of this forum. Myself Vivek from Punjab. Have worked in almost every major state of our country and now back to my roots. We have an old 800. Bought it second hand when we shifted back to Punjab. It was my first car, never got a chance to get one before due to busy schedule and some family issues. I have hardly driven it due to time constraints and I don’t myself call a good car driver, I can drive two wheelers just fine though. Anyways kids are growing up and they are forcing us to get a new car. We finalized Chevrolet Cruze. It’s a great car. I liked it, wife and kids loved it but a week before we had to pay the payment GM decided to bid adieu. The showroom was giving us a flat Rs. 1 lakh discount but it didn’t feel right to buy a car, the company of which is stopping its manufacturing and selling in India so we had to drop the plan as the showroom also wasn’t sure whether the service centre will close down or not. I still cannot explain how much I love that car. Anyways time to move on.

I am a fan of Sedans, was never really interested in SUV’s. Our budget till few months back was 18 lakhs only as we were looking for a new apartment also. Unfortunately the builder of the apartments didn’t give possession of the apartments to anyone so we had to drop that plan also. I am redeeming few amount from my PF & the rest is from loan. So, now we have decided to increase our budget to 40 lakhs as we will be staying in the rented place only. In our budget we decided to go for an Audi, BMW, Jaguar or any reputed hybrid/semi-hybrid car. I have ruled out Mercedes because as per the kids it is too common these days. We are looking for a Sedan only. But now someone has told me that in our budget we will get entry level cars only from Audi, BMW, Jaguar or some reputed hybrid/semi-hybrid car manufacturer. So, instead of this I was told to get some other car like say Fortuner as it will have a heavier and more powerful engine than the brands that I have chosen. In our budget I have checked few Sedan’s like Verna, Superb, Octavia, Camry etc. but they just don’t feel like “the one” like Cruze did. I can go for a SUV like Fortuner if what the guy said to me is right about the engine and the entry level thing. We are open to other brands also in our budget.

So, after much googling I found this forum and decided to ask questions here.

- In our budget out of the brands that we have chosen, which car should we buy?

- Is the engine and entry level cars thing, right points to ignore those brands?

- Can we get a hybrid/semi-hybrid car in our budget? I was able to find Accord only. And what does fully hybrid and semi-hybrid car mean exactly? Are these kind of cars good enough keeping in mind our Indian roads, environment etc.

- Should we go for Diesel or Petrol car if the hybrid option isn’t there and why? The usage will be about 200-400 kms a month. Expect it to be a lot more in the initial months.

- How much is the performance wise difference in a car with Hydraulic or Electric power steering?

- Couple of years back, few Indian news channels showed few cars which were selling in India, but they didn’t pass crash tests when tested in European countries. Which is the highest standard of those tests and how to spot the same in cars?

- What things should we look for in a car when we are in a showroom finalizing the same? I for one have no idea about the engine etc.
- What is the major difference between AT and MT cars?
- How to check the manufacturing date/model of the car that we are choosing?
- Is there a special kind of driving training required to drive these premium cars?
- Our government has decided that from 2030 petrol/diesel cars will be banned and only electric cars will be allowed to sell. As per Supreme court from 2020 only cars with BSE-6(it might be called something else) certification will be allowed to sell. Also I read somewhere that soon government will start giving subsidies on electric cars, maybe then Tesla will come here. Anyways we will be buying this car for a long term. This is why I asked for a Hybrid cars in our budget. Is there any other point that we should keep in mind?

- What points regarding RTO and insurance are to be kept in mind while finalizing?


Things that we would love to have in the suggested cars-
- Comfortable seats
- Front and back airbags
- 360 degree camera
- Cruise Control
- Decent leg space both for front and back seats
- Touchscreen with navigation control
- Good durable tyres
- Good suspension, many roads here have “craters”
- Acceptable, if not good, mileage
- All other recent features that cars of this generation are having
- All other safety and main features
- Good music system
- The car should come with an official car cover or as an accessory which could be bought separately. I don’t trust the quality of the car covers available in the market.

We are looking to buy a car in black color only. After discussion with that guy, I am following up about Fortuner only in SUV’s as I wasn’t able to find another good SUV model, both looks and performance wise in our budget. It’s newest model, a 2017 Toyota Fortuner TRD Sportivo comes in white color only. We are not looking for only a brand or logo say of BMW, the car should be worth of every penny, feature wise, for the money that we are going to spend.

Looking forward to your replies.

Many thanks.
 
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Thread Starter #2
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Re: Prepurchase queries

I have zeroed down the below 4 options-

1. Audi A4
https://autoportal.com/newcars/audi/a4/

Things that I like- The cockpit design & odometer, 8 airbags
Things that I don't like- Very low power engine 1400cc as per the price, no 360 degree camera
Drove it and its a beast
Ncap rating-5, I don't know whether it is valid for Indian models also. Moreover I don't think that the Indian model has these functions https://youtu.be/aVyox-NU-Oo

It has 4 models as per the brochure (2 petrol, 2 diesel) http://www.audi.in/content/dam/ngw/sea/in/pdf/brochures-2017/august/Audi%20A4%20Brochure_WCM.pdf

2. Jaguar XE Prestige
https://autoportal.com/newcars/jaguar/xe/

I went to the showroom for its test drive, it is postponed for this week but inquired about the car and was told that out of Pure(lower model), Prestige and Portfolio(top model) the latter one is the best as it has all the features. When I asked what features, I was handed a brochure. I really wasn't able to find the "extra features" in the Portfolio one from the brochure though https://www.jaguar.in/Images/17MY Jaguar XE Brochure LM 2017 _tcm163-408119.pdf

Things that I like- The way the thing which controls what mode we want the car to run in comes from the bottom is super cool, the interiors are better than Audi A4 as per me, 2000cc engine, 360 degree camera
Things that I don't like-6 airbags none for the rear passenger, ordinary looking odometer

Ncap rating-5, again I doubt that it is valid for the Indian models also
It has 6 models as per the brochure(3 petrol, 3 diesel)

I referred to multiple websites to find the exact differences but unfortunately none had any credible info-
https://auto.ndtv.com/compare-cars/...?variant1=13536&variant2=13537&variant3=13156
https://www.carwale.com/comparecars/audi-a4-vs-jaguar-xe/?c1=4879&c2=4779&source=26
Jaguar XE Prestige vs Volvo S60 Cross Country Inscription D4 AWD (Diesel) | Compare Cars | Car Zoom
Jaguar XE Variant Compare | Jaguar XE Prestige vs Jaguar XE Portfolio | Car Zoom (As per this website there is no ac in Jaguar Portfolio lol)
https://autoportal.com/newcars/comp...hnology-vs-jaguar-xe-prestige-20l-petrol.html The best comparison website

3. Volvo S60 Cross Country
4. Toyota Fortuner
The last two options are also in budget and they are giving a bigger engine at a lesser price, but I will consider them only if there are issues with the first two options.

Please guide
 
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Re: Prepurchase queries

For a 200-400kms a month, I suggest you to stay away from premium brands as they would loose huge value due to depreciation and don't forget the cost of maintaining it.

Currently in the Indian automotive market there has been sudden shift towards electric cars and all manufacturers are gushing into this sector. As per news and rumours, Tata has been making some great improvements in electric powertrain development. I'm expecting all major OEM's will probably release their electric variants in India before Tata does to have a grip on market.

I would suggest you to look into D/D1 - Segment of cars for now.
 
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Re: Prepurchase queries

The cars you have shortlist has a different contender that is "Forturner".So the purpose and type of audience it address is different.

If you have a taste for SUV's then options like Forturner, Endeavour, Pajero can be in your budget. Out of which Endeavour is better to drive among these 7 seaters and loads with features.

The sedan's you mentioned are expensive, comes with lots of accessories options especially S60. In my experience S60 cross countrywill drive better then A4.
[I have driven S60, and its really amazing to drive. So S60 CC may be some improved version for rough roads.]
I cannot compare XE, as no drive experience on it.

Jeep Compass stand in between these lane which has advantage of small body for less body roll and off-roading with 4x4 drive system.

I would suggest to list down you requirement exactly and the choose you car wisely.
 

kkn13

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Re: Prepurchase queries

Jeep Compass, Fortuner, Endeavour, Tucson hands down imho
These cars offer much more for the price and are much better than "Premium" brands entry level cars
They will be more reliable, cheaper to maintain, better resale and will leave a bigger smile on your face given the engine options on all 4 of them

If you still want to proceed with BMW, Audi etc, then nothing like BMW X1 with BSI

I was in the same boat as you and went with Hyundai Tucson after checking out Compass and Tiguan first before finalizing

Ive driven every car mentioned here 2-3 times minimum

I was very inclined towards Endeavour but it was too big, Compass was a tad smaller for my stature hence Tucson ticked all the boxes for me and I dont regret my decision one bit

PS- Skoda and other VAG cars are a lot of headache, I owned Superb before and sold it 6 months after my extended warranty expired
 
Thread Starter #6
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For a 200-400kms a month, I suggest you to stay away from premium brands as they would loose huge value due to depreciation and don't forget the cost of maintaining it.

Currently in the Indian automotive market there has been sudden shift towards electric cars and all manufacturers are gushing into this sector. As per news and rumours, Tata has been making some great improvements in electric powertrain development. I'm expecting all major OEM's will probably release their electric variants in India before Tata does to have a grip on market.

I would suggest you to look into D/D1 - Segment of cars for now.
I am not thinking about selling it say 6-7 years down the lane. So, lets keep the depreciation thing on the side for a second. What is the average cost of maintaining an Audi and a Jaguar? Also what are D/D1 segment cars?
Many thanks for replying on my post.

The cars you have shortlist has a different contender that is "Forturner".So the purpose and type of audience it address is different.

If you have a taste for SUV's then options like Forturner, Endeavour, Pajero can be in your budget. Out of which Endeavour is better to drive among these 7 seaters and loads with features.

The sedan's you mentioned are expensive, comes with lots of accessories options especially S60. In my experience S60 cross countrywill drive better then A4.
[I have driven S60, and its really amazing to drive. So S60 CC may be some improved version for rough roads.]
I cannot compare XE, as no drive experience on it.

Jeep Compass stand in between these lane which has advantage of small body for less body roll and off-roading with 4x4 drive system.

I would suggest to list down you requirement exactly and the choose you car wisely.
I have no taste for the SUV's. I am 6"2 and a sedan is my choice. Fortuner is being considered because of the entry level thing and low engine which I posted in the initial post. Are these two reasons enough to consider a SUV? Volvo though looks good but has only 1 store and service centre in Punjab which is about 2 and a half hour drive from my city. I am not getting time for the test drive also due to this. All the requirements are posted in the initial post. For me it is still A4 or XE.
Thanks for replying on my post.

Jeep Compass, Fortuner, Endeavour, Tucson hands down imho
These cars offer much more for the price and are much better than "Premium" brands entry level cars
They will be more reliable, cheaper to maintain, better resale and will leave a bigger smile on your face given the engine options on all 4 of them

If you still want to proceed with BMW, Audi etc, then nothing like BMW X1 with BSI

I was in the same boat as you and went with Hyundai Tucson after checking out Compass and Tiguan first before finalizing

Ive driven every car mentioned here 2-3 times minimum

I was very inclined towards Endeavour but it was too big, Compass was a tad smaller for my stature hence Tucson ticked all the boxes for me and I dont regret my decision one bit

PS- Skoda and other VAG cars are a lot of headache, I owned Superb before and sold it 6 months after my extended warranty expired
I have no taste for the SUV's. I am 6"2 and a sedan is my choice. Fortuner is being considered because of the entry level thing and low engine which I posted in the initial post. Are these two reasons enough to consider a SUV? What issues did you face with Skoda and VAG cars?
Thanks for replying on my post.

I heard that Jaguar cars have very poor service support in India and their Indian variants have pathetic engines, is that true?
 
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Re: Prepurchase queries

I have no taste for the SUV's. I am 6"2 and a sedan is my choice. Fortuner is being considered because of the entry level thing and low engine which I posted in the initial post. Are these two reasons enough to consider a SUV? Volvo though looks good but has only 1 store and service centre in Punjab which is about 2 and a half hour drive from my city. I am not getting time for the test drive also due to this. All the requirements are posted in the initial post. For me it is still A4 or XE.
Thanks for replying on my post.
You are quite tall to use a sedan. So the low hung Audi A4 or BMW 3/5 series will not be suitable for you or your family if they are somewhere near to your physic.

S60 CC is somewhere between a tall SUV and sleek sedan. I think this could be a practical pick for person with physic like you with no special biasing for SUV. Volvo built quality and ride-handling is superb, plus the car is tough to handle rough roads in INDIA.

Take a TD for S60CC and you will love the cockpit like dash and ways drives.
 
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I am noone to give suggestions in terms of your finances but personally I would not be spending 40 Lakhs on a car and stay in a rented apartment.

Can I suggest some middle class sanity and suggest you to buy a car around 10-14 Lakhs and save the rest for buying property???
 
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I am not thinking about selling it say 6-7 years down the lane. So, lets keep the depreciation thing on the side for a second. What is the average cost of maintaining an Audi and a Jaguar? Also what are D/D1 segment cars?
Many thanks for replying on my post.
In 6-7yrs a 40L INR car would have lost around 28L (60% loss) just in depreciation only. If we add up servicing costs, maintenance, fuel it will shoot up even more.

By my knowledge on average for a luxury car, service costs around 30-40K. But BMW and Audi has package plans like BSI where you'll pay for service costs for next 5yrs at time of purchase at once. Plans like these include engine oil, lubes, general spares and wear tear parts (like brake pads etc).
Jag does't have a package service plans as of now.

In short,D/D1 segment cars are cars which costs starts from 15L INR (for a basic model, ex-showroom). Eg: Hyundai Elantra, Toyota Corolla, Chevy Cruze, Skoda Octavia, VW Jetta etc.

I heard that Jaguar cars have very poor service support in India and their Indian variants have pathetic engines, is that true?
My ex-boss used to own an Jag. Once he mentioned me that Jags are not reliable as some models have repeated issues and spare availability is very slow. For some spares you have to wait for weeks to get it. One good thing is that the service center loans you the same car model.
 
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Thread Starter #10
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You are quite tall to use a sedan. So the low hung Audi A4 or BMW 3/5 series will not be suitable for you or your family if they are somewhere near to your physic.

S60 CC is somewhere between a tall SUV and sleek sedan. I think this could be a practical pick for person with physic like you with no special biasing for SUV. Volvo built quality and ride-handling is superb, plus the car is tough to handle rough roads in INDIA.

Take a TD for S60CC and you will love the cockpit like dash and ways drives.
You know a Volvo showroom opened last evening only in a nearby city. I will try to get some time to get its TD. I checked some videos and I think that its interiors are below average.
Thanks for replying on my post.

I am noone to give suggestions in terms of your finances but personally I would not be spending 40 Lakhs on a car and stay in a rented apartment.

Can I suggest some middle class sanity and suggest you to buy a car around 10-14 Lakhs and save the rest for buying property???
Please find me a good apartment within a budget of Rs. 60-70 lakhs in my city and I will be more than happy to shift to the same. The property rates are way out of reach dear. About the car I would still say it is what the family wants. We would have gone for Cruze but alas GM had to go away.
Thanks for replying on my post.

In 6-7yrs a 40L INR car would have lost around 28L (60% loss) just in depreciation only. If we add up servicing costs, maintenance, fuel it will shoot up even more.

By my knowledge on average for a luxury car, service costs around 30-40K. But BMW and Audi has package plans like BSI where you'll pay for service costs for next 5yrs at time of purchase at once. Plans like these include engine oil, lubes, general spares and wear tear parts (like brake pads etc).
Jag does't have a package service plans as of now.

In short,D/D1 segment cars are cars which costs starts from 15L INR (for a basic model, ex-showroom). Eg: Hyundai Elantra, Toyota Corolla, Chevy Cruze, Skoda Octavia, VW Jetta etc.


My ex-boss used to own an Jag. Once he mentioned me that Jags are not reliable as some models have repeated issues and spare availability is very slow. For some spares you have to wait for weeks to get it. One good thing is that the service center loans you the same car model.
So, going by the depreciation rule, don't you think that the same rule will be applicable for a car say which costs around say Rs. 20l? From the list of cars that you have posted we had finalized Cruze but then its company ran away from India. About the thing that you have mentioned about Jaguar, everyone is saying the same because Jaguar has to import spare parts from foreign. Is there any Jaguar owner on this forum?
Thanks for replying on my post.
 
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So, going by the depreciation rule, don't you think that the same rule will be applicable for a car say which costs around say Rs. 20l?
For a 40L car, you loose 28L. For a 20L car, you loose 12L. Depending on car resale value is also effected. Some car have higher re-sale value than the other. In bangalore an 2012 octavia and a 2011 BMW 320d were selling at same price at a dealer. Both were single owners, had around 45K kms ODO and were petrol variants. Since BMW has less number of buyers in preowned market, it looses more value in deprecation than octavia.

Skoda Superb is a very beautiful and fun to drive. Skoda experience might vary depending on which is your nearest and preferable service center. Some skoda customers has very good experience and still prefer it even after warranty is over while some other have an equally bad experience at service centers.
 
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You belong to either of the following two categories. Solutions are given under each case.

Category A : You just want to own a Luxury Car
Under this category, you wouldn't be using Amazon / Flipkart for getting a better deal. If your TV is not working, you would simply buy a new one, instead of trying to repair it. You would ignore, if you don't get "Refund of Income Tax". You have already booked an "iPone8 Plus or a Sammy Note8". More importantly, you wouldn't care how much you are going to get for your old M-800. You also won't care about depreciation, difference between moveable / immovable properties, Maintenance Cost, YoY Car Insurance cost, etc. Simply put, money is not a big deal for you.

Solution:
Why ask anyone ? Just buy what your heart desires. Certain things cannot be enjoyed at a later age.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Category B : Simple... You don't belong to Category A
Under this category, Rs. 10,000 for a side view mirror or Rs.20,000 for a Bumper, will pinch you. You might feel like banging your head upon hearing the yearly Insurance cost. You prefer to get your iPhone screen replaced at a local shop than at the authorised service center. You have availed the recent Amazon / Flipkart festival offers. You have used the "Coupons Codes" for your OLA / Uber rides to get some discount. You have consulted "N number of people" before buying your Rs. 30,000 mobile. More importantly, you would fight tooth and nail to get the best exchange price for you M-800. I hope, you do get the drift.

Solution: When you asked about the official car cover, I know you belong to Category-B [evil]. Cat-B people (me included) try to get the optimum, if not the best, whenever they open their wallet. They would check the price difference between Amazon and Flipkart (I do [lol]). We would feel cheated, when the bill is thrust down our throat for minor repair(s).Cat-B people are NOT cut to own a Luxury Brand Car.Forget about a Rs. 40 Lakhs Car. If it is Sedan, I would recommend you to get a "Toyota Corolla or Hyundai Elantra or VW Jetta or VW Passat or Skoda Octavia or Skoda Superb" before trying out cars from Audi / BMW / Volvo. If you are after a vehicle with high GC, Mahindra's XUV500 comes with a nice 200mm GC. "Ford Endeavour, Toyota Fortuner and Mitsubishi Pajero Sport" will have same or more GC. It's YOUR Choice...
 
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kkn13

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I am not thinking about selling it say 6-7 years down the lane. So, lets keep the depreciation thing on the side for a second. What is the average cost of maintaining an Audi and a Jaguar? Also what are D/D1 segment cars?
Many thanks for replying on my post.



I have no taste for the SUV's. I am 6"2 and a sedan is my choice. Fortuner is being considered because of the entry level thing and low engine which I posted in the initial post. Are these two reasons enough to consider a SUV? Volvo though looks good but has only 1 store and service centre in Punjab which is about 2 and a half hour drive from my city. I am not getting time for the test drive also due to this. All the requirements are posted in the initial post. For me it is still A4 or XE.
Thanks for replying on my post.



I have no taste for the SUV's. I am 6"2 and a sedan is my choice. Fortuner is being considered because of the entry level thing and low engine which I posted in the initial post. Are these two reasons enough to consider a SUV? What issues did you face with Skoda and VAG cars?
Thanks for replying on my post.

I heard that Jaguar cars have very poor service support in India and their Indian variants have pathetic engines, is that true?
Yes, I was gonna go in for GLC, X3 or Discovery sport
Neither felt double the price over say Skoda Octavia/Superb or even Tucson (except interiors to a small extent)

VAG and other Germans lack basic features like USB,reverse camera, front parking sensors etc in certain models, high maintenance, poor reliability and ridiculous part failures
Also many lack a SPARE tyre and no wheel well to store one either

My average service costs for my Superb and my SIL's Polo were too high compared to my CRV
Superb was a great package overall but it let me down a couple of times and I was forced to sell it

If you are a sedan lover, a crossover like GLC,X3,X1, Tucson etc are perfect imho
German sedans are scary given the low GC and our road conditions imho

Tucson AWD is perfect imho but if you have to go German, go for X1 with BSI, best piece of mind and fairly loaded package though too expensive for what it offers
 
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You're in a very tricky situation as the budget brings about a lot of options. You can try to look at the BMW 3 GT, as with discounts, it might just fit in your budget.

Rest one car I'd like to suggest to you (as you're really in to sedans) is the Camry Hybrid. It suits all your requirements to the absolute T. Spacious. Features. Pretty efficient. Hybrid. Toyota reliability. And black available too. :P
 

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