New Diesel Car : Need Help!

[Niku]

Hello everyone!

I own a Liva GD SP and have driven it extensively in the past ~19 months. Now, I am looking for a replacement as the Liva is to be used for a taxi business, that will be started soon (Link - http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/f...-business-deciding-3-new-cars.html#post447491).

I would be using it for the next 5 years. I want the car within the next 20 days or so, and would ignore the cars with long waiting periods.

Your Budget: Rs. 8 lacs on-road price, maximum.

New or Used: New

Your Location: Faridabad, Haryana. Can do a deal from Gurgaon, Noida, Delhi, etc. if the price is better.

Top Priorities: Instead of the priorities, I would list out the necessities: Auto A/c, P/S, P/W and all basic stuff. It should be a good driver's car, with good drivability and a 5-seater. It should be VFM, with lots of space (for cargo and passengers both) and it should be good looking. I would basically look for top-end variants, with ABS and Airbags being a necessity. A powerful engine would be preferred. A.S.S. is not important, but avoiding Skoda due to horror stories regarding A.S.S..

Monthly Running: ~3000 kms per month. Maybe ~4000 kms per month sometimes. 99% A/C usage. More than 2500 kms of the above would be on highways.

Type of Fuel: Diesel only. Turbo lag should be controlled though.

For What Purpose: Regular use. Would include long ~300/500 kms highway runs at a stretch also. So, it should be easy to make pace on the highway.

Seating Capacity: 5 adults

Type of Segment: Open to all categories. Nothing lower than a Liva and nothing more than an Ecosport. Including all segments that fall in between in my list.

Request you to suggest the best car I can buy with the above requirements. I am okay if some requirements are not met (except the budget constraint one ) and would look forward to your suggestions. Do let me know if I have left something.

Regards,
Nikunj

 

[acechip]

Best car in my opinion with space for 5 is Manza.

 

[ram123]

swift dzire, amaze

 

[vijay_968]

There is no absolute winner when it comes to hatchbacks. Some cars win on the handling aspect and loose on the engine punch, cabin comfort and space front. Fun to drive is many times coupled with complaints from rear passengers. Some cars win on engine performance but loose out on noise levels. Good front seats some times come with average rear seats. Good cabin space often comes with limited Boot space. On top of that looks are subjective. Precise Steering some times makes wrestling the steering at City speeds.

If budget can be stretched, go for Polo GT TDi. Most of the hatchbacks that I've seen driven hard on Highways are Swifts, Polos and i20 all in their Diesel avatar. On more than three occasions, exclusively on Dharmapuri-Krishnagiri stretch on NH7, I've had a particular Micra for my company. During my recent trip, a tiny Celerio was my companion for about 20km, at triple digit speeds on Madurai-Dindigul stretch. Bottom line is if the driver understands his/her car, the car would do almost ALL the things the driver wants. So, if it is a hatchback, better is to identify a good all-rounder, matching your tastes and needs.

If you are leaning towards a compact sedan, you can consider Zest and Amaze. Can you wait for the Jazz launch ? Problem with Honda is they are known to no-ball their legal delivery.

 

[VISHNUCARCRAZY]

If you can wait for sometime,check on new Figo Aspire.

At present zest , xcent falls on your budget( with gizmos)
Moderate features, good handling properties- Swift dzire(Not as great as its Hatchback)
Verna base options come around 8lakh-9lakh.(1.4 crdi)

 

[CARleone]

If you are looking for hatchback, then i would suggest you punto. Do a TD and you will be impressed. Liva is also a very good hatch, don't you want to own one more?

Regards,
CARleone

 

[Niku]

Thanks for the suggestions, first of all.

Best car in my opinion with space for 5 is Manza.

No sir. No Manza for me. It is an old design and I am a college-goer and would never like to be seen driving one (no offence to owners).

swift dzire, amaze

Yup. Amaze is being considered. Dzire has less boot space and less rear legroom, though the rear bench is comfy than the smaller sibling. Dad feels that Dzire is based on driver comfort and not for the passenger.

There is no absolute winner when it comes to hatchbacks. Some cars win on the handling aspect and loose on the engine punch, cabin comfort and space front. Fun to drive is many times coupled with complaints from rear passengers. Some cars win on engine performance but loose out on noise levels. Good front seats some times come with average rear seats. Good cabin space often comes with limited Boot space. On top of that looks are subjective. Precise Steering some times makes wrestling the steering at City speeds.

If budget can be stretched, go for Polo GT TDi. Most of the hatchbacks that I've seen driven hard on Highways are Swifts, Polos and i20 all in their Diesel avatar. On more than three occasions, exclusively on Dharmapuri-Krishnagiri stretch on NH7, I've had a particular Micra for my company. During my recent trip, a tiny Celerio was my companion for about 20km, at triple digit speeds on Madurai-Dindigul stretch. Bottom line is if the driver understands his/her car, the car would do almost ALL the things the driver wants. So, if it is a hatchback, better is to identify a good all-rounder, matching your tastes and needs.

If you are leaning towards a compact sedan, you can consider Zest and Amaze. Can you wait for the Jazz launch ? Problem with Honda is they are known to no-ball their legal delivery.

That was a good explanation, brother. Well, I know my requirements very well. And I also agree that I will have to compromise with something and that perfect have-it-all car would be hard to find. I basically want a good driver-oriented car with good space and cargo capacity. Long distance cruising would be a priority over city comfort and a firm rear suspension would be fine. I am shortlisting Swift D, Elite i20 D, Bolt D and Punto D (for hatchbacks), Ecosport (CSUV), Amaze D, Zest D and Linea D & TJET(Possible?). Will be taking multiple TDs to see what every car has to offer.
Not waiting for the Jazz. Read below.

If you can wait for sometime,check on new Figo Aspire.
At present zest , xcent falls on your budget( with gizmos)
Moderate features, good handling properties- Swift dzire(Not as great as its Hatchback)
Verna base options come around 8lakh-9lakh.(1.4 crdi)

I am considering only tried & tested cars. I cannot go for Aspire or other yet-to-be-launched cars like Jazz as I want delivery before 20th June. Can't live without a car! And unlaunched models have no predictability of sales, so I don't want to go for them. I will first TD the Xcent to decide whether I should consider it, I haven't driven the Grand i10 and the Xcent, so I have no idea about its positives.

Already bought a Zxi (Dzire) last year. Verna 1.4 isn't the car for self-driving IMHO, the 1.6 only makes sense but would be out of budget.

If you are looking for hatchback, then i would suggest you punto. Do a TD and you will be impressed. Liva is also a very good hatch, don't you want to own one more?

Regards,
CARleone

Yes, considered Punto. Would take a TD soon. I have even called the guys at Tata-Fiat dealership for Punto D TD but they were trying to influence me to take the Petrol's TD. I had decided on the diesel and they have promised the TD tomorrow at my home. Let us see whether they will keep their promise or not.

Liva is no doubt a very good hatch. A great (lag free) diesel, predictable handling, oodles of space and a great A.S.S. experience. I would advice Liva definitely to people having above requirements. I just don't want to repeat the same car though. Looking for the things that were lacking in the Liva, i.e., features and interior design.

---

Having considered the above useful comments, and after regular conversations at home, I have come to the shortlisting part.

Cars Shortlisted for Detailed TD:

1. Maruti Swift D
2. Hyundai Elite i20 D
3. Tata Bolt/Zest D
4. Fiat Punto D
5. Ford Ecosport D (and Ecoboost if it fits the budget)
6. Honda Amaze D
7. Fiat Linea D & TJET

I know that's a big list but I have already fixed TD Appointments with Maruti and Fiat for tommorow. I do not want to miss on the decision-making part this time and would try my best to take a right decision, so that I have a smile on my face at the end of the day. Will post about the experience tommorow.

Regards,
Nikunj

 

[VISHNUCARCRAZY]

Sir,Verna 1.4 is not down tuned,though it may not be to an enthusiast's taste.

Xcent - 1.1 crdi feels sluggish sometimes.

You can also try fiesta classic,don't exclude it as it has been discontinued,ford won't discontinue its part supplies for another 5 years(All specs of ford engines remain same)

 

[ram123]

After TD driving all the cars please write a report if possible for everyone's benefit

 

[nishant5858]

My Top 3 Hatchbacks would be
1. Hyundai Elite i20 Diesel
2. Volkswagen Polo Diesel
3. Maruti Swift Diesel

And the top 3 compact sedans would be
1. Honda Amaze
2. Hyundai Xcent
3. Tata Zest

Some cars tick you're requirements and some don't and remember all these cars have some negatives in them. So test drive all these and decide and please don't reject a car just for one weakness in it. Like Ex Polo for low rear space, Amaze for Noisy Diesel Engine. Aspire & Jazz have the ingredients to become the segment bests.

 

[Niku]

Sir,Verna 1.4 is not down tuned,though it may not be to an enthusiast's taste.

Xcent - 1.1 crdi feels sluggish sometimes.

You can also try fiesta classic,don't exclude it as it has been discontinued,ford won't discontinue its part supplies for another 5 years(All specs of ford engines remain same)

I don't remember when I said that Verna 1.4 is downtuned, sir. I also said the same thing that it is not to an enthusiast's taste, but your way was more refined. I will call Hyundai and Ford to check out their offerings in person before a TD. Fiesta classic is a great driver's car but I would need to sit in it first to decide.

After TD driving all the cars please write a report if possible for everyone's benefit

Sure. Waiting for the Swift TD vehicle to arrive. Maruti has promised the TD within 30 minutes from now. No reply from Fiat, though.

My Top 3 Hatchbacks would be
1. Hyundai Elite i20 Diesel
2. Volkswagen Polo Diesel
3. Maruti Swift Diesel

And the top 3 compact sedans would be
1. Honda Amaze
2. Hyundai Xcent
3. Tata Zest

Some cars tick you're requirements and some don't and remember all these cars have some negatives in them. So test drive all these and decide and please don't reject a car just for one weakness in it. Like Ex Polo for low rear space, Amaze for Noisy Diesel Engine. Aspire & Jazz have the ingredients to become the segment bests.

I have taken your advice. I am also coming to the above said conclusion. A TD would decide about the negatives that I can live with. I don't think I would get an Aspire or Jazz delivered in the next few weeks. More over, Dad would not like to buy a car which has just launched and which has not proven its credibility.

I very much agree that every car has negatives in it. The perfect choice would be the one whose negatives don't bother me much and I can live with the negatives. The feel-good factor and a good engine are very important aspects as of now.

---

One more confusion:

My Dad's office friend has a Skoda Superb for sale. It is a June 2014 model (not the latest design) with just 1500 kms on the odometer. The reason for less kms on the odometer is that he has other cars and prefers them for Indian roads (Audi Q7 and BMW X1). I am yet to talk to him regarding other details. He says that he has complete service history and all documents, manuals, etc. and says that the condition is showroom-like. Would like to know the acceptable price for it?

PS. Maruti dealer is quoting Rs. ~827000 for the Swift Zdi.

Regards,
Nikunj

 

[CarLoverJosh]

Hi nikunj, my suggestion would be to go for the Elite i20 in its diesel avatar. My uncle has one and I can vouch for its engine, quality, looks, features. On there highway the engine feels relaxed when you want it too and powerful when you need it. Please do try it. Also I agree with vijay 68 that a car which has a good driver can outrun other bigger cars with drivers who don't know how to drive properly. Personally, I have seen our Rapid outrun a Chevy Cruze. Don't believe it do you? I know but it did. So do try the Elite, else try the Polo. The GT isn't worth it and trust me the regular polo has more than enough power for indian roads. Although the Elite has more space, features, refinement, than the Polo. So do try both.

Regards CLJ.

 

[Niku]

@CarLoverJosh:
I will TD the Elite i20. I agree to the fact that an average car with an excellent driver will perform better than an excellent car with an average driver. The art of utilizing every bit of power from the engine by achieving well-timed gear changes and RPM combinations can help you make good progress on the highways.

I am not sure but I don't think Polo GT TSI/TDI would fit my budget. I will TD the normal TDI though before any decision-making.

PS. The Swift TD car has arrived. The HU is not working though. I am going for a TD. Will update about my experience soon.

Regards,
Nikunj

 

[Niku]

Maruti Swift TD

A white ZDi with 7k kms on the odometer and in average condition.
I would not make this a long review, rather I will post brief and straight-forward points about the car.

Exterior (8 out of 10):

- Good design. Not timeless as of the Polo, but a neatly scupted package overall.
- Alloy wheels look nice. Among the best OEM designs. Tyre size also adequate for Indian roads. Tyre brand - MRF.
- Sloping roof looks nice but has a bad effect on the rear seat headroom.
- The shoulder room is restricted because of the sporty design, in which the windows are kept smaller and roof is also narrower to maintain the wraparound design. Similar to the XUV5oo.
- Rear bumper does not protrude much and the boot lid might get damaged in parking spots.
- FM Antenna placed on the roof looks nice. SA said that it can be removed by rotating in anticlockwise direction.
- Washer jets at the front are hidden from view. Rear washer jet is positioned on the third brake lamp, looks nice.
- Paint quality was good and the panel gaps were consistent at most places. Body parts were fairly solid, except the boot lid and the integrated spoiler.

Interior (7 out of 10):

- A great waterfall design in black, complimented with adequate silver and chrome touches.
- Design felt better than the Polo, though quality was lacking. Part quality was average but the way they were put together was fine.
- MID and Instrument cluster are a blessing for the driver. Dials look classy and the MID shows instant FE, average FE, outside temperature and DTE also. Temperature guage is also present.
- Start/Stop button was really convenient. The HU looked really good on the dashboard. I was not able to test the HU or the steering mounted controls as the HU was not working (powering up). It powers 4 speakers and 2 tweeters. Tweeter placement is nice and neat.
- Automatic A/C chills the cabin fast. Although the weather was good today, I decided to check the A/C effectiveness at Auto mode and it performed well. Blower noise was also okay.
- The knobs and buttons are of good quality, except the ORVM adjustment knob, which didn't seem solid. It worked nice though. Rear wiper can be operated from the edge of the wiper knob. Fog lamps, headlight levelling and alarm button was placed on the right corner.
- Storage space was limited. All door pockets get bottle holders but the area below the handbrake could have been utilised. Glovebox size is also average. Space below the Auto A/C controls is very useful.
- The A/C vents are the corners can be closed but some air escapes through anyway. A cup holder is provided below the left corner A/C vent. Opens in a nice progressive manner and decent size also.
- The grab handles close in a progressive manner. Theater dimming cabin lamp is also nice. Driver sunvisor gets ticket holder, passenger one gets vanity mirror.
- Parcel tray was provided, with 3 kg load limit. Rear passengers would feel claustrophobic as the windows are smaller and rear door pads are also bland. Chrome door handles (inside) look and feel rich.
- Boot compartment has a small light. Boot can be opened from outside without the key, by pressing a hidden button between the license plate lights.
- Seat height adjustment has limited range. Fore and aft adjustment is good but space at the front comes at the cost of space at rear. Steering is tilt adjustable and goes very low, no adjustment for reach. Seat belts are height adjustable. All neck restraints are height adjustable.
- Seat compound was neither too firm nor too soft. Perfect balance, I would say. Seat was fabric.
- Front seats had good support. Rear seats lacked under thigh support and the backrest was too upright.
- There were a lot of rattles from the boot area. I know TD cars are driven hard but there was some suspension noise also. Wondering about this aspect of Swift.

Space (5 out of 10):

- Boot space was really less. Spare wheel was an alloy.
- Rear space can be best termed as average, that too when the front space is really tight.
- Front seats have good range of adjustment.
- Headroom was okay at the front but strictly average at the rear, because of the sloping roof. Shoulder room was limited at the rear, 3 passengers would be a tight fit for sure.
- Space was nothing as compared to my Liva.

Drive (8 out of 10):

- Diesel engine was punchy. The noise of the turbo spooling up was audible in the cabin and very addicting.
- There was a surge of power after ~2200 RPM (and even ~2000 RPM) and the surge faded of after ~3500 RPM.
- Gear level was placed perfectly. Clutch was light, as compared to diesel standards. Brakes were not sharp initially but the bite was good once the pedal was pressed 1/3rd. Gearing was nice. 1st, 3rd and 4th gears were short and the 2nd and 5th gearing was tall. 2nd gear was the most usable in the city and achieving 60 kmph was easy in that gear.
- Steering was light at city speeds and weighed up a bit at highway speeds. But, a firm hand is needed on the highways at triple digit speeds.
- Handling was excellent. High speed corners were easy. Tyres had adequate grip and a fair amount understeer was there, though controllable and predicted. Dynamics are really good. The lack of feedback from the steering spoiled the experience.
- Turbo lag was irritating during corners and overtaking required a downshift. Once in the power band, the experience was great though.
- Engine has good characteristics. NVH was okay, wind noise was controlled though traffic noise filters in badly. Engine noise was very well controlled and sporty once in the power band.
- During a really tight corner, I had to engage the handbrake to help the rear slide out a bit. A great feeling, totally predictable handling. There were 3 beeps as long as the handbrake was engaged.
- The ride was firm in the city and felt really good on the highway. Lateral movement at the back was very well controlled. Ride in the bumpy city roads was uncomfortable though.
- Ergonomics were spot-on for the driver. The passengers can feel the tug from the engine followed by a mild yet long pull once the turbo spools up.

That was it!

The car had the feel-good factor only when it comes to the driver-orientedness. For practical use, the limited space and comfort were a deterring factor.

The Zdi is being offered at Rs. 797207, after 15k cash discount and other personal level negotiations. No freebies are being offered, though I will manage some after a bit of haggling. The Zdi is under my budget and can be a tough competitor in my list. This, being the top variant, comes with airbags, ABS and BA. The car can be delivered in the next week itself, any colour.

No reply from Fiat yet. I will call Hyundai and Tata for their TD cars, and will do the TD tommorow.

Regards,
Nikunj

 

[TSIVipul]

Although I never in my life thought that I will like this car or recommend this to anyone but the truth is that if one is sparing 8 lacs then its nothing that betters Hyundai Elite i20.
In my recent visit to home, I drove one (lent from a friend, his new car) from Meerut-Tapukara-Alwar-Jaipur and back within 32 hours and I had only good words to say about this Hyundai. It is well engineered, it looks good, drives well, handles quite well I must say, is confident even up to 140 kph (it can go to 180+ though), will easily deliver 18-20 kpl, engine is responsive and very refined and so is the car.
I really couldn't find much to complain about the i20 and it will near perfectly fit all your requirements.
It is spacious
Comfortable
Decent to drive
Confident
Stylish
Feature loaded with a premium feel
Good Hyundai A.S.S.

And a lot more.

Most importantly: This is coming from someone who never liked the Hyundai vehicles but lost his heart on Grand i10. Keeping any bias aside, I don't think any other offering is as much bang for buck and well balanced package as the Elite is for the money it is on offer.

@Niku:
Saarji if that's (Swift ZDi) your brief and straight forward review then please do let me know before you post a detailed one. I will take a month break from my work for reading it.