Decision Time Approaching: Mitsubishi Pajero Sport vs Toyota Fortuner


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Am opening a new thread as Iron Rock’s thread on which I piled on has evolved nicely about his ownership. My test drive plans kicked off with the Pajero (a 20,000km vehicle) and the Fortuner (40,000km vehicle), both 4x4 MT.

I am giving lower weightage to other attributes like comfort/interiors (both equal, and equally bad and bumpy rides), service convenience and cost (Fortuner better), ease of driving (clutch hardness/steering wheel heaviness – Fortuner better), ease of extracting spare tyre (Fortuner is much better).

Based on a search for a reliable and rugged vehicle, I narrowed it down to the Fortuner and Pajero. The fortuner has a higher turning radius of 5.9m in all 4x4s compared to Pajero’s 5.6. My parking access is quite difficult, but both these vehicles made it comfortably. So no make-or-break yet.My priorities on the basis of which I narrowed it down to Pajero and Fortuner were

- 30% in-city driving
- 30% inter-city flat terrain
- 30% hill climbing, hair-pin bends etc.
- 10% rain and off roading and bad roads
- Rugged and safe vehicle

So here goes:

- In-city driving: Both vehicles were bumpy, and it was tough to get perfect comparisons, since the Fortuner was on Bridgestone (stock is Dunlop) and Pajero was on Apollo (stock) with different levels of wear, and typre ressure etc. Getting back to back itself was a big deal, and I decided that neither of these vehicles, even in a perfect comparison would be a match for a refined SUV like Santa Fe or Honda City. Torque was more in the Fortuner due to low-end being stronger (Iron Rock’s comment about there being no replacement for displacement, and the 3l Fortuner Engine outshone the Pajero’s 2.5l.

- Inter-city: Pajero scored heavily due to its 4x2 option, absent in the Fortuner. On wide straight stretches, the Pajero in 4x2 mode, begged to be diven fast, but beyond 120 etc. the Fortuner felt very heavy, and decidedly un-aerodynamic. Principally it was the full-time 4x4 which was speaking in the Fortuner. In the 4x4 mode, the Pajero felt the same at higher speeds like 100+.

- Hill climbing: Till now, I have had the opportunity to only drive in some steep slopes in Bandra, Napeansea Road, etc, and not true hairpin bends on highways. But this little hill driving is serious and both vehicles took a 5 adults load quite easily.

- Driving in rain, Off Roading, No real opportunities here, but I am willing to bet that if driven at their best, both in 4x4, I would say that each of the two would beat the conditions effortlessly. On off-roading, on reputation alone, I am backing the Pajero, but this wont be the driving factor in my decision.

- Safe braking: Here Pajero scores heavily. Braking was magnificant, whereas with the Fortuner it took some effort. But tough to conclude since the vehicles could have had parts with different extents of wear. The Pajero is also equipped with heavier doors (wonder if the Fortuner has side impact bars, which is what makes the Pajero doors seem heavier).

Based on the above critical factors, I would unhesitatingly give the edge to the Pajero. Other factors:

- Interiors: Am afraid I will have to contradict popular opinion here – both would be ranked equal. I, my wife, and a car-enthusiast friend of mine also looking to buy the Pajero/Fortuner reached the conclusion unanimously. The latest Fortuner (2015) seems to have drawn level with the Pajero.

- Noise: The Fortuner is noticeably quiter. The same damping can perhaps be achieved by the Pajero also by using after market dampers.

- Ease of driving: I personally feel that the three factors which make a vehicle seem easy to drive are clutch hardness, steering hardness and cabin noise. On all three parameters, the Fortuner comes out on top, so the Pajero can seem ungainly and large to drive from inside, whereas the Fortuner just feels like a heavier Corolla.

Conclusion: Based on my parameters, the Pajero takes the cake. One last thing though… the turning radius. All Fortuner 4x2s have the same 5.6m turning radius as the Pajero. Hence if one wants a rugged SUV, with minimal off-roading, the Fortuner 4x2 MT and AT are excellent options. One is not paying for what one is not in need of.

Now from these last two the Fortuner 4x2 MT is not under consideration since I would rather have the Pajero MT, which also gives me the flexibility of a 4x4 option. To lose that as well as not have the AT is not to my liking.

Hence the last choice is the Fortuner 4x2 AT 3l version. Not 2.5l since I am betting on the higher torque of the bigger engine to make up for any lag etc. Lag because after a conversation with a fellow FM who had recently bought a Pajero AT (after having many years of experience on AT cars in the US), the following came to light:

- It was difficult to counter the lag when slowing down and re-accelerating on steep inclines

- The paddle shift was very ponderous and hence hill driving became extremely uncomfortable.

But in the Fortuner AT, I am willing to bet that the slightly smaller weight of the vehicle and the bigger engine compensate for the type of problems decribed above in the Pajero AT.

Many thanks to everyone for looking. All comments and advice welcome. Am lining up Fortuner 4x2 AT for hill driving in western ghats later this month.
 
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Re: Decision time approaching - Pajero Sport vs Fortuner

@ Sharpshooter

I have been following IronRock's Pajero thread too.
I have read your queries and posts there.

This thread is going to be an interesting read into the decision making process between these two beasts. I will be religiously following this thread.

You have made a few interesting observations. Can't wait for the gurus to reply / debate / ponder.
This is going to get interesting.
 
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Re: Decision time approaching - Pajero Sport vs Fortuner

karthikjr73, you're welcome.

A few other things
- In the opening post, I meant that in rainy conditions, both SUVs if driven in 4x4 will easily beat conditions at normal driving speeds.
- The Cabin space is slightly bigger in the Pajero. It may be because it is a bit more snub nosed compared to Fortuner.
- The A pillar is narrower in Pajero. Also the bonnet is inclined downward. Also the airscoop is not there on the bonnet. All three contribute to a better view from the driver’s seat.
- The seating at the rear is amazingly flexible in the Pajero, with the last row seats folding down flat. In Fortuner they fold up sideways like in the old Pajero 2800 SFX.
- In the 2015 Pajero, 2nd row sliding is gone. It can however be changed back to sliding by purchasing an accessory, is what I understood from Iron Rock.
- I test drove the Pajero anniversary edition yesterday. That has been discontinued. It had a smoother and lighter clutch than the 2013 one I tested last year. The 2015 edition it seems, has improved on this further, and it should be easier to drive. Finally in the 2015 edition, the wing mirrors are much better.
- In the 4x2 Fortuner, the interiors will be the old ones, and not the ones in the 4x4, which is quite classy and upto the level of the Pajero.
- The Fortuner’s spare tyre is to be unscrewed with the jack, and it lowers gently. In the Pajero, it is to be unscrewed by hand from top (i.e the floor of the boot), and it drops to the sloor.
- The Fortuner’s 3l engine takes up more space, but the air intake is bigger, and the parts under the hood are more liberally arranged. The Pajero is relatively tightly packed.
- Further, the highest selling accessory in the Fortuner is the air scoop that is mounted on the bonnet. A provision for this is standard in all vehicles, allowing a bit more air cooling. In the Pajero there is no such provision.
- The Fortuner has a more generous stepper for older people to get into the high cabin (its width is almost equal to the length of one’s foot). In the Pajero, this is a much narrower strip, more like a bar. I don’t see myself using this feature.
 
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Re: Decision time approaching - Pajero Sport vs Fortuner

@Sharpshooter:

Man, how much interesting your confusion is for me! Just imagine someone stopping just before leaving for his office/site, finding his laptop, abusing everyone in the world for his misplaced data card and then finally replying you. That's me! :biggrin: :stupid:

Hello from one more IR's thread follower - heck, his threads are like that only!

I am also sailing on the same boat and have seen everything from new Yeti to used Land Cruiser Prado. Finally now I am slowly moving towards the decision of buying a new Fortuner 4X4 A/T and the reason is simple: I drove one and I liked it.

Pajero Sport is a fantastic vehicle without any doubt and has got everything near perfect. The areas where Fortuner outshines Pajero are where Pajero gets slightly out shined but the areas where Fortuner gets out shined, it get out shined by a huge margin and hence it's the Pajero which gets the edge at the end.

Pajero is a sprinter, beter controller, more efficient and maybe safer too but for me it's Fortuner, the 2015 Fortuner is good and the biggest reason for me is Toyota A.S.S., they never left any stone unturned to keep me happy. Pajero Sport has better ride, better all round visibility and better brakes but Fortuner is an entirely different animal. Show the Fortuner a hilly road and the way it climbs just makes the kill. In the hills, city or mild traffic, nothing beats the Fortuner - there is no displacement of replacement after all.

Thread added to bookmarks.
 
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Re: Decision time approaching - Pajero Sport vs Fortuner

I haven't driven Pajero Sport for a single time. But after driving Pajero 2800 is much better on hilly areas where steep slope, uphill & downhill, tight corners conditions are much likely to occur. I hope the brother has the similar or better characteristics as the name SPORTS has suffixed.

Toyota Fortuner seem to be a big hefty SUV with sports characteristics, but lacks in ease while cornering in hilly areas.

Else both SUV are built for such terrains. You must thoroughly understand the features and performance before buying, as you need are really sorted and much understood by you.


You may try for other brands like
- Land Rover Freelander [may be out of your budget]
- Hyundai Santa Fe [easy to drive]
 
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Amitpshelke - you are right. Freelander is outside my budget. Santa Fe ... not a good personal experience so far with Hyundai. This is too serious a purchase to take a chance.

Some other observations which rule out a 4x2 Fortuner - it does not have the contemporary Fortuner trim, nor the Vehicle Stability Control, which is a make or break for me. For this last reason, I am abandoning the 4x2 AT altogether.

I am also considering the 4x4 AT Fortuner, which is not terribly different in price to the other makes. I keep reading in various sites that it is possible to counter the poor ride quality through after market suspension enhancements.

My question is - what are the possibilities of softening the suspension just a bit, in the Pajero Sport? Despite all the talk about smooth ride quality, yesterday's test drive was in a very rattly and bumpy vehicle indeed. No girlfriend or wife is likely to be impressed about how refined her man is, if yesterday's Pajero is his vehicle.

I also checked with the Mumbai dealer, and it did not seem that he has any other test drive vehicle. Hence I wonder how many potentially good customers are being put off by this factor in the test vehicle.
 
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I am also considering the 4x4 AT Fortuner, which is not terribly different in price to the other makes. I keep reading in various sites that it is possible to counter the poor ride quality through after market suspension enhancements.
Money makes this possible in any vehicle for that matter :)

My question is - what are the possibilities of softening the suspension just a bit, in the Pajero Sport? Despite all the talk about smooth ride quality, yesterday's test drive was in a very rattly and bumpy vehicle indeed. No girlfriend or wife is likely to be impressed about how refined her man is, if yesterday's Pajero is his vehicle.
which dealership Shakti motors ? must have been an unbelievably badly maintained specimen - i had rallied the sport offroad and trust me this is the Sport's USP.

I also checked with the Mumbai dealer, and it did not seem that he has any other test drive vehicle. Hence I wonder how many potentially good customers are being put off by this factor in the test vehicle.
This is surely a put off - you should speak to Suresh about this. They should arrange an alternate.

And i am in agreement with you about Fortuner's interior - never really bothered me, i found it classy infact!
Regarding hood scoop - that because the the intercooler is mounted on top in fortuner , while in the pajero sport its right behind the front grill.

Edit :- if you want to try out ghats nearby mumbai, go to Matheran - some pretty fun hair pin bends!
 
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An update: Test drives only seem to be useful to an extent, as your assessment is held hostage to the extent of abuse that these sample vehicles have taken. Talking to previous owners on specific attributes seems to be at least as good an approach.
- My 4x4 MT Fortuner friend told me that he has no issues with bumpy rides. It is decent, even when only 1-2 people are in the middle row and only 3 people in the car in all. When he and his wife get driven around, with 2 in the middle row and the driver, it is quite decent. For longer rides, roads are also a bit better than Mumbai roads. So overall quite OK. Earlier my impression was that it is unacceptably bumpy, but this feedback and the potential to intervene with aftermarket suspension brings this back into contention.
- The 4x2 MT Fortuner sourced from a friend meanwhile has no better turning radius than the 4x4 test vehicle, and the Pajero Sport is infinitely more manoeuvrable. I found it quite difficult to take the 4x2 into my garage. At night time it would be quite difficult, and in rainy nights, and perhaps mornings, there would be a risk of getting scratches when taking it out by reversing.
- The 4x2 MT Fortuner does not have VSC, and coming on top of the other factors, is a deal breaker for me. Dropping this option.
- The 4x4 MT Fortuner would have been nice except for the compulsory 4x4, which seems to make the vehicle sluggish. But I may have got a poor test vehicle, so must try again. But why not consider 4x4 AT, so that I get no 4x2 switching option, but at least get the AT (an enthusiast will shudder, but just considering a Fortuner along with a Pajero is sacrilegious enough).
- Summarizing at this point, Pajero Sport MT, Fortuner 4x4 AT and Fortuner 4x4 MT are the three options, in that order. Somewhat stronger build (I had earlier mentioned heavier doors), better manoeuvrability, better braking, and 4x2 switchability are key factors in favour of the Pajero. Bigger engine, better low end torque in favour of Fortuner. Ride quality – here at present I am going by reputation – Pajero should be better – I will also try to get a city ride on a Pajero owned by any FM if the opportunity presents itself. Will update again in a few days and trigger likely in the next 2 weeks.
Question to the gurus – does the Pajero have the equivalent of the Fortuner 4x4s VSC?
 
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And i am in agreement with you about Fortuner's interior - never really bothered me, i found it classy infact!
Count me in, I find the interior of Fortuner very sensibly laid with everything placed very ergonomically and still retaining the design appeal.

Regarding hood scoop - that because the the intercooler is mounted on top in fortuner , while in the pajero sport its right behind the front grill.
This raises a question, since the intercooler is top mounted then installing the bug deflectors should not be advisable in case of Fortuner. Right?
Going by the shape of bug deflector, it works like a spoiler, spoiling the smooth flow of air over the bonnet and hence causing less air to be fed to intercooler. Result - lower air flow through intercooler causing lower exchange of heat which in turn results in lower efficiency.


An update: Test drives only seem to be useful to an extent, as your assessment is held hostage to the extent of abuse that these sample vehicles have taken. Talking to previous owners on specific attributes seems to be at least as good an approach.
Not only that much, the TD guys are always a bit reluctant of lettin goyu push the vehicle to its limits in any case.

- My 4x4 MT Fortuner friend told me that he has no issues with bumpy rides. It is decent, even when only 1-2 people are in the middle row and only 3 people in the car in all. When he and his wife get driven around, with 2 in the middle row and the driver, it is quite decent. For longer rides, roads are also a bit better than Mumbai roads. So overall quite OK. Earlier my impression was that it is unacceptably bumpy, but this feedback and the potential to intervene with aftermarket suspension brings this back into contention.
Same is my experience, I don't know what makes people feel Fortuner unacceptably bumpy while it isn't so.
In fact since it has a tighter suspension setup it is always advisable not to drive it too slow over the bumps. Be a bit quick and let the suspension play its role. My city has those small plastic speed breakers(or they are made up of fibre) and whenever I drive a Fortuner, I simply pass them without touching the brakes at the speeds of 60 or above and nothing to complain. Slow down to 10 or 5 kph and the speed breaker can be felt inside very well.
The fact is that a vehicle with a tighter suspension setup is supposed to be driven a bit quicker than those with a softer setup to make the suspension work perfectly and that's the key to driving comfort. BUT, Pajero still rides better at any speed and at any terrain; no denying on this fact. As already mentioned, the areas where Pajero outshines the Fortuner, it does with a good margin.

- The 4x2 MT Fortuner sourced from a friend meanwhile has no better turning radius than the 4x4 test vehicle, and the Pajero Sport is infinitely more manoeuvrable. I found it quite difficult to take the 4x2 into my garage. At night time it would be quite difficult, and in rainy nights, and perhaps mornings, there would be a risk of getting scratches when taking it out by reversing.
All these issues are gone in two to three days of ownership.

- The 4x2 MT Fortuner does not have VSC, and coming on top of the other factors, is a deal breaker for me. Dropping this option.
Fortuner 4X2 is worth dropping indeed.

- The 4x4 MT Fortuner would have been nice except for the compulsory 4x4, which seems to make the vehicle sluggish. But I may have got a poor test vehicle, so must try again. But why not consider 4x4 AT, so that I get no 4x2 switching option, but at least get the AT (an enthusiast will shudder, but just considering a Fortuner along with a Pajero is sacrilegious enough).
Fortuner 4X4 is by no way a sluggish vehicle at least. It definitely is a bit slow but still the way it picks up and crosses the 150 mark is just awesome; Pajero does it better though. You ned to TD the Fortuner again, this full time 4X4 when driven in normal mode has all its differentials open and hence the load on the engine is much reduced as the differentials in themselves keep shifting power from wheel to wheel based on the steering input etc. 4X4 A/T actually sounds good and drives good too. Heck, I felt the price of 30 lac well justified for the vehicle after driving it.

- Summarizing at this point, Pajero Sport MT, Fortuner 4x4 AT and Fortuner 4x4 MT are the three options, in that order. Somewhat stronger build (I had earlier mentioned heavier doors), better manoeuvrability, better braking, and 4x2 switchability are key factors in favour of the Pajero. Bigger engine, better low end torque in favour of Fortuner. Ride quality – here at present I am going by reputation – Pajero should be better – I will also try to get a city ride on a Pajero owned by any FM if the opportunity presents itself. Will update again in a few days and trigger likely in the next 2 weeks.
Question to the gurus – does the Pajero have the equivalent of the Fortuner 4x4s VSC?
Simple it is, buy the Pajero if you want an M/T; Fortuner simply can't beat this rally born kid in key areas. And if you want a mix of both the worlds, ie: comfort of A/T and flexibility of 4X4, then close your eyes and go for Fortuner 4X4 A/T.

I guess Pajero Sport comes equipped with ESP, if yes, then it has the equivalent of Fortuner's VSC.

Fact: Even if it don't have, then also the rally bred dynamics of Pajero help keeping it under control in any situation.

My personal choice will always remain Fortuner 4X4 A/T of the two, at least until the day Mitsubishi launches Pajero A/T 4X4.
One last statement that says the entire truth is, "I don't go for Pajero TD because I like Fortuner and I don't want to regret buying one".
 
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Hi TSIVipul – very nice comments. I am narrowing it down to Pajero MT and Fortuner 4x4 AT, favouring the former. I am indifferent to the price advantage of the former. The Pajero has EBD, which is Electronic Brake Distribution. But not VSC.
Fortuner has EBD as well as VSC. The VSC may help a bit better in maintaining correct alignment. But the Fortuner does not have rear disc brakes, which the Pajero does. Hence I guess both come out equal, judgementally.
The other make-or-break which led me to dropping Pajero AT is the hill climbing. An FM had poor feedback. The Fortuner 4x4 AT will have both the 4x4 advantage (Pajero was 4x2) and the higher low-end torque. What would you think on this? Hill climbing is invariably an important part of inter-city driving.
Else I take your word for the responsiveness of the 4x4 Fortuner AT and for the ride quality being acceptable.
Now to test drive again and decide finally. Here there is an issue – incredibly, due to the 5% price delta, 80% of the people buy 4x2 AT ignoring the many advantages and superior features in the 4x4 AT, as per my Toyota dealer. Hence he does not have 4x4 AT pieces readily available for TD. Nevertheless, I will figure out some way forward.
 
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Every vehicle comes with its pluses and minus - lets just say Ride Quality is not Fortuner's USP.

If you are just doing city roads - this might not matter as much - if you do bad roads , this will be very evident - have a read through Vijay's thread as well.

Coming to drive-ability - Fortuner is better than Pajero, be its ghats or cities - bigger engine and low end torque helps. However having said that its also a fact a Pajero does faster 0-100kmph.

A Pajero has to be driven in a certain way to wringe performance out of it , gear shifts will be more required in ghats and cities in a Pajero compared to a Fortuner is my belief. But neither is under powered for the purpose if you see what i mean. It just needs to be driven differently.

And yes we mere mortals in india don't have ESP in Pajero Sport, its available in SA and other foreign markets - heck they have a locking rear differential too as a option.
 
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Hi Iron Rock
If Mitsubishi introduces ESP in India market in say 2017, do you think the older versions, such as 2015 etc. can be upgraded? Since it is ECU driven the company will have to do it I guess.
While the Fortuner has a rear differential lock, is the Pajero not also equipped with the same? Or only limited slip differential?
In driveability I was meaning the Fortuner AT in ghats/hills. It does have low end torque, but can it pull up effortlesslessly in full load on automatic? I guess all these will be answered when Toyota sends across a new 4x4 AT for testing, which they have agreed to just now a few minutes back. I don’t mind switching to manual for the hill climb if the manual switch option is easy to master.
 
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Hi TSIVipul – very nice comments. I am narrowing it down to Pajero MT and Fortuner 4x4 AT, favouring the former. I am indifferent to the price advantage of the former. The Pajero has EBD, which is Electronic Brake Distribution. But not VSC.
Sirji EBD is nothing special, electronic brake force distribution is basically nothing but a jugaad which sends some braking force to rear wheels too as well as tries to distribute the braking force equally between the front wheels in case of hard braking.
If the vehicle is moving with one wheel on tarmac and one on loose surface then nothing but ABS dominates and EBD has to live as a secondary feature trying to keep the vehicle in straight line - that's it. ABS is all about not letting the wheels lock and EBD is all about making the wheels rotate at nearly same speed taking the differential factor in consideration in case the vehicle is turning and if I am not wrong then every vehicle equipped with ABS is equipped with EBD too, no matter the manufacturer mentions it or not.

Do ABS and EBD equipped vehicles fishtail or loose their tail? Yes they do, and the driven don't need to make much effort to make them loose their tail under hard steering or brake or accelerator inputs.
Do ESP or VSC equipped vehicles loose their tail? Seldom, the driver needs to to a lot of effort to make their rear go out of line and until it is a supreme emergency maneuver which simply makes the physics beat all the safety systems, the ESP or VSC is successful in keeping the vehicle under control.

In other words, EBD is not actually something very special, but VSC is. VSC is ESP + TCS BTW, that means Toyota hasn't cut any corners in this department.

Fortuner has EBD as well as VSC. The VSC may help a bit better in maintaining correct alignment. But the Fortuner does not have rear disc brakes, which the Pajero does. Hence I guess both come out equal, judgementally.
Honda City runs on only front disc brakes and thinner rubber than the Fluidic Verna which used to have discs all round, but still the City has a better braking. Yamaha FZ stops way better than Pulsar 220 while the former has only front disc and the latter has both.
Under hard braking, the longitudinal load transfer causes maximum of the vehicle weight to shift to the front and hence the discs at front matter more while the rear ones have near negligible braking as the corner weight over the tires is mostly transferred to the front.

In other words: For vehicles like SUV's which have a high longitudinal weight transfer or longitudinal load transfer, having discs or drums at rear don't make much effect. While for the sports cars or say F1 cars with a very less longitudinal load transfer, having discs at rear is a boon. So you need not to be worried much about having discs at rear or not.

The other make-or-break which led me to dropping Pajero AT is the hill climbing. An FM had poor feedback. The Fortuner 4x4 AT will have both the 4x4 advantage (Pajero was 4x2) and the higher low-end torque. What would you think on this? Hill climbing is invariably an important part of inter-city driving.
Although never driven the Pajero A/T but I guess it isn't that bad and should climb the hills effortlessly.
Even my Corolla never gets bogged down climbing the steep inclines and Pajero is a very different animal. Maybe the gearbox is tuned more for efficiency, but slightly harder foot and the Pajero should move like a king.

Else I take your word for the responsiveness of the 4x4 Fortuner AT and for the ride quality being acceptable.
Fortuner responds better in low end, heck, it has a 360 nm of torque available right at a dirt low 1400 rpm itself. But once the turbocharger of the Pajero starts feeding the sir into the engine; the Fortuner is left in its dust.

And keeping the engine of Pajero in its powerband is easy in hills or on highways as on highway speeds the engine itself revs in the meaty part of the powerband and on hills the low geared driving makes it run into the meaty part itself. The issue is in stop-go traffic in city; that's it.

Now to test drive again and decide finally. Here there is an issue – incredibly, due to the 5% price delta, 80% of the people buy 4x2 AT ignoring the many advantages and superior features in the 4x4 AT, as per my Toyota dealer. Hence he does not have 4x4 AT pieces readily available for TD. Nevertheless, I will figure out some way forward.
If Fortuner, then it should be A/T 4X4 and if you want a manual choice then get the devil's ride - the Pajero.

Coming to drive-ability - Fortuner is better than Pajero, be its ghats or cities - bigger engine and low end torque helps. However having said that its also a fact a Pajero does faster 0-100kmph.
Depends on driving, on the hills both should be more or less equally responsive. Because in hilly driving, the engine is always kept on the boil by any sensible driver and Pajero pulls fantastically there. What your experience says?

A Pajero has to be driven in a certain way to wringe performance out of it , gear shifts will be more required in ghats and cities in a Pajero compared to a Fortuner is my belief. But neither is under powered for the purpose if you see what i mean. It just needs to be driven differently.
2nd and 3rd gear are the two every SUV needs on hills, no matter its Fortuner or Pajero. And both do rev between 2-4000 at times for keeping pace, it shouldn't be much of an issue. Maybe Fortuner will need 4-5% lesser gearshifts.
I do agree this point but can't agree much because when I drove a Fortuner to Gangotri, I felt that it required nearly as much shifts as the Innova used to require(Every hairpin requires to shift to second or first and shift up after crossing it and same is about overtaking on hills), it's just that Innova required to rev a bit higher and Fortuner is quite quicker in moving ahead.


If Mitsubishi introduces ESP in India market in say 2017, do you think the older versions, such as 2015 etc. can be upgraded? Since it is ECU driven the company will have to do it I guess.
Let me add a bit to confusion:
New Fortuner is coming in 2016 :biggrin:

While the Fortuner has a rear differential lock, is the Pajero not also equipped with the same? Or only limited slip differential?
Hold on sirji, I guess Fortuner is also having same setup as of Pajero sport, the central differential locking with LSD at rear. I am also unsure though!

In driveability I was meaning the Fortuner AT in ghats/hills. It does have low end torque, but can it pull up effortlesslessly in full load on automatic?
Sirji this statement of yours will cause the R&D teams at Toyota kill themselves, put 10 people inside and show the Fortuner a hilly road and see how it tears everything apart. Even a Tata sumo with a 3.0l engine is tough to overtake on hilly roads using an Innova or other low displacement hearted SUV's.
And not only Fortuner, Pajero Sport is also nearly identical in this field.
Pajero has a bore to stroke ratio of 0.96 while the Fortuner has of around 93, so the Pajero is supposed to have a better low end torque but the lower displacement spoils the game. FACT: Although the difference is around 500cc but Pajero isn't as behind the Fortuner as it seems on paper by looking at this 0.5l difference.

I guess all these will be answered when Toyota sends across a new 4x4 AT for testing, which they have agreed to just now a few minutes back. I don’t mind switching to manual for the hill climb if the manual switch option is easy to master.
These Toyota guys are like that only.
Last nigh I had a talk with the dealer at my city and he was like "Sir, you come here and since you have been owning Toyota cars for long (Our First Toyota was Innova in 2006, the Corolla and my current Innova too), we will have some special offers for you, and the hints he gave sounded really very nice". Can't mention them here though.

If I am deeply impressed by any A.S.S. then it is Toyota, I have previously owned Maruti, Mahindra, Hyundai, Skoda and Tata with friends owning Ford and Honda but the way Toyota guys respond to every complain and query is awesome. If a customer makes a complain, then there is no chance that the vehicle will come out until the complain is 100% sorted out and no jugaads are done at all. They never left any stone unturned to make me happy. At times I took my car back by 7 or 8 pm in night and the service in charge (adviser I mean) was always seen smiling(And I dropped him and his boys home once) despite of the fact that he and his boys had to wait for me even after the end of their shift and this is with nearly every Toyota A.S.S. On an another forum I read the story where a Fortuner owner was telling how the Toyota A.S.S. guys rushed 100 kms away from service station to his home at midnight for fixing the battery issue of his car. Here is the link
toyota.JPG
 
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Thread Starter #14
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Sirji EBD is nothing special...
Noted - VSC is quite critical and I read stats that in the US, studies say that the probability of fatal accidents falls by 35% in VSC / ESP equipped vehicles. I understand what ESP is. But after your comment, I think a much higher weightage can be given to ESP than I previously thought, even after considering the rear discs of Pajero.
Although never driven the Pajero A/T but I guess it isn't that bad and should climb the hills effortlessly...
Here I am afraid I will take the direct feedback of FM Sooryanp ahead of your comment. He categorically said it became very tough to negotiate steep climbs on AT and further, that manual fallback was not easy. He has driven ATs for several years.
Even my Corolla never gets bogged down climbing the steep inclines and Pajero is a very different animal...
I have a Corolla for 10 years. Awesome fellow – climbs anything with 5 people on board easily. But Pajero, specifically AT ONLY, is what I have doubts on, and no longer interested in it. I have no doubt whatsoever on the Pajero MT, and I have already done hairpin bends (right next to my home is a hairpin bend, which is worse than usual hill drives, nearly 170 degrees, very steeply inclined turn with no real space) on that, and it was a breeze. Problem is only the Pajero AT, and anyway I have no further interest in Pajero AT.
Sirji this statement of yours will cause the R&D teams at Toyota kill themselves, put 10 people inside and show the Fortuner a hilly road
TSIVipul, after the feedback on Pajero AT, I am not taking anything for granted on the AT of the 4x4 Fortuner. Not interested in putting 10 people and running it like a truck. 5-6 people enough. I have not seen a AT Tata Sumo. Only talking about AT here, please note. I will test 4x4 Fortuner AT on that hairpin bend, and see for myself, and if the chance is not available, or if it does not climb, drop this and no regrets.
If I am deeply impressed by any A.S.S. then it is Toyota
Here I agree – for 10 years, have owned a Corolla, and brilliant standards in servicing. If the Fortuner 4x4 AT makes the cut on steep inclines, if I can reach my parking and come out smoothly, it is first choice.`
 
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And yes, thanks for the mention of the 2016 Fortuner. Apparently the MRP will be higher than the current equivalents by around 2l. Also that they have made the chassis slightly shorter, lighter, increased power and torque significantly, taken safety features to a different level. Coming in June, I gather.
 
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