ICE System For Maruti Suzuki Zen LXi (2005)

[drive_angry]

Hello Gurus, I have been following most of the ICE threads as a mute listener. I am a newbie in ICE So I would really appreciate if the ICE Gurus can help me out.

My brother recently turned 21 and we have decided to give him a small car to commute. Since the car is MS Zen 2005 LXi and it has a cassette player and a stock door speaker ( My grand pa used to drive this car, he never listened to anything when driving) Well after much discussion, we have decided on upgrading it to decent ICE. For that we need your help.

This is what I am thinking of

1. HU: PIO or Sony HU- only Aux and USB is needed.
2. Front Door Speakers: infinity Primus 6502
3. Rear Tray Speakers: JBL GTO 950SI
4. Amplifier: need a 4 way amp, advise needed. Heard blaus and rockfords are good
5. Subwoofer: thinking of pioneer dual coil or JBL
6. Tweeters: do I need any? If yes, would Infinity tweeters be sufficient enough?

Other details:

For Novices: (Seeking advice on a new setup/ upgrading their current setup):

1. Your Car: Maruti Suzuki Zen LXi

2. Your current setup (If any): Sony HU with stock door speakers.

3. Your Budget: 20K

4. Do you drive most of the time or is it chauffer driven? Self

5. Your Music preferences (Genres, favorite artists, etc.): Rock ( Alternative, Punk) and hip hop. When my brother listens to music he doesn't expect to hear from the person sitting next to him.

Budget is low i.e. Around 20K. All suggestions are welcome.

I need your help finding a good dealer in Chandigarh for purchasing and installations. Thanks much guys!

Looking forward to your replies.

 

[ice_wise]

Re: Advice Needed-ICE System

Hello Gurus, I have been following most of the ICE threads as a mute listener. I am a newbie in ICE So I would really appreciate if the ICE Gurus can help me out.

My brother recently turned 21 and we have decided to give him a small car to commute. Since the car is MS Zen 2005 LXi and it has a cassette player and a stock door speaker ( My grand pa used to drive this car, he never listened to anything when driving) Well after much discussion, we have decided on upgrading it to decent ICE. For that we need your help.

This is what I am thinking of

1. HU: PIO or Sony HU- only Aux and USB is needed.
2. Front Door Speakers: infinity Primus 6502
3. Rear Tray Speakers: JBL GTO 950SI
4. Amplifier: need a 4 way amp, advise needed. Heard blaus and rockfords are good
5. Subwoofer: thinking of pioneer dual coil or JBL
6. Tweeters: do I need any? If yes, would Infinity tweeters be sufficient enough?

Other details:

For Novices: (Seeking advice on a new setup/ upgrading their current setup):

1. Your Car: Maruti Suzuki Zen LXi

2. Your current setup (If any): Sony HU with stock door speakers.

3. Your Budget: 20K

4. Do you drive most of the time or is it chauffer driven? Self

5. Your Music preferences (Genres, favorite artists, etc.): Rock ( Alternative, Punk) and hip hop. When my brother listens to music he doesn't expect to hear from the person sitting next to him.

Budget is low i.e. Around 20K. All suggestions are welcome.

I need your help finding a good dealer in Chandigarh for purchasing and installations. Thanks much guys!

Looking forward to your replies.

For a good dealer in CH, fellow member saroya would be able to help since he is from Punjab.

I doubt if you will be able to accomodate all this (HU, sub, amp, 4 speakers, installation, spacers, wiring, etc.) in your budget of 20k. For a small car like Zen, I would suggest the following :

HU - Pioneer or JVC 1DIN with Aux and USB. Power output should be 50w max per channel, and see if the features (USB Aux) are to your liking. You can also consider Blaupunkt but Sony is best avoided.

Front Speakers - I think you have decided on Infinity Primus. Audition different brands before finalising anything. Pioneer, Hertz or JBL components would be good for Zen. Components come with tweeters which you can mount on dashboard corners.

Rear Speakers - Get a parcel tray (3/4 inch MDF would do) and fit good quality 6x9 coaxials on it. JBL GTO series is very good. Other options are Hertz, Ground Zero, Infinity or Pioneer. A good set of 6x9 coaxials can replace the need of a subwoofer.

Amplifier - 4 channel amplifier would be fine to power all your speakers. Get something in the 65-75w RMS per channel range. JBL GXA644SI and Blaupunkt 470SF are good amplifiers. You can also look for Kenwood KAC (slightly less power) or Blaupunkt EMA455.

Wiring - You will need amplifier wiring also. 4 Gauge wiring would be good. Look for good quality wires. Fusion, Scosche, JBL, Focal, etc. are good brands. Speaker wiring would already be present in your car.

Subwoofer - If at all you feel the bass is less, you can add a subwoofer. Entry level subwoofers from JBL and Pioneer are best bang for the buck. JBL GTX1200 and Pioneer Champion series is very good. Avoid dual coil at this price as all your amplifier channels will get used up with subwoofer and you will need another amp for your speakers. Dual or single coil doesn't affect SQ or output, it is just that you can wire them differently and get more punch from your amplifier by presenting a lower load.

HU - 3.5k
Front Components - 4k
Rear Coaxials - 4k
Amplifier - 5k
Wiring, Spacers, Connectors, MDF Tray - 2.5k
Install - 1k

Total = 20k.

If you want to accomodate a subwoofer also, which I strongly suggest is NOT needed, you can get coaxials for front (which will cost 2.5-3k) and slightly cheaper coaxials for rear (which will cost around 3-3.5k) and a less powerful amp (4-4.5k) which will give you some extra amount to spend on subwoofer (+ box, total ~3.5k). So it is not worth to degrade your entire list for a subwoofer.

Another option you can try is to skip rear coaxials. It won't be a problem if you get more powerful components and don't have more than 2 people in the car. This will save you 4k (from first list) and you can get a subwoofer for that money, and slightly better components for front. This arrangement would actually sound better as yours is a small car.

 

[drive_angry]

Re: Advice Needed-ICE System

For a good dealer in CH, fellow member saroya would be able to help since he is from Punjab.

I doubt if you will be able to accomodate all this (HU, sub, amp, 4 speakers, installation, spacers, wiring, etc.) in your budget of 20k. For a small car like Zen, I would suggest the following :

HU - Pioneer or JVC 1DIN with Aux and USB. Power output should be 50w max per channel, and see if the features (USB Aux) are to your liking. You can also consider Blaupunkt but Sony is best avoided.

Front Speakers - I think you have decided on Infinity Primus. Audition different brands before finalising anything. Pioneer, Hertz or JBL components would be good for Zen. Components come with tweeters which you can mount on dashboard corners.

Rear Speakers - Get a parcel tray (3/4 inch MDF would do) and fit good quality 6x9 coaxials on it. JBL GTO series is very good. Other options are Hertz, Ground Zero, Infinity or Pioneer. A good set of 6x9 coaxials can replace the need of a subwoofer.

Amplifier - 4 channel amplifier would be fine to power all your speakers. Get something in the 65-75w RMS per channel range. JBL GXA644SI and Blaupunkt 470SF are good amplifiers. You can also look for Kenwood KAC (slightly less power) or Blaupunkt EMA455.

Wiring - You will need amplifier wiring also. 4 Gauge wiring would be good. Look for good quality wires. Fusion, Scosche, JBL, Focal, etc. are good brands. Speaker wiring would already be present in your car.

Subwoofer - If at all you feel the bass is less, you can add a subwoofer. Entry level subwoofers from JBL and Pioneer are best bang for the buck. JBL GTX1200 and Pioneer Champion series is very good. Avoid dual coil at this price as all your amplifier channels will get used up with subwoofer and you will need another amp for your speakers. Dual or single coil doesn't affect SQ or output, it is just that you can wire them differently and get more punch from your amplifier by presenting a lower load.

HU - 3.5k
Front Components - 4k
Rear Coaxials - 4k
Amplifier - 5k
Wiring, Spacers, Connectors, MDF Tray - 2.5k
Install - 1k

Total = 20k.

If you want to accomodate a subwoofer also, which I strongly suggest is NOT needed, you can get coaxials for front (which will cost 2.5-3k) and slightly cheaper coaxials for rear (which will cost around 3-3.5k) and a less powerful amp (4-4.5k) which will give you some extra amount to spend on subwoofer (+ box, total ~3.5k). So it is not worth to degrade your entire list for a subwoofer.

Another option you can try is to skip rear coaxials. It won't be a problem if you get more powerful components and don't have more than 2 people in the car. This will save you 4k (from first list) and you can get a subwoofer for that money, and slightly better components for front. This arrangement would actually sound better as yours is a small car.

Whoa, that was quick. first of all thanks for your reply ice_wise

Yes, as advised by many here any reading several threads online.

I have decided to keep safe distance from sony. Its disheartening to see that they dont make them like they used to at sony.

Ill try to get in touch with Saroya. thanks!

Regarding Front Speakers, I was told that they only 4 inches are able to fit in Zen's front doors hence I opted for infinity series. The shopkeeper was hellbent with Sony & JBL but for the front doors I wanted little bit premium hence I opted for JBL's Infinity series. I have heard that Hertz and Focal are good but they are very costly. If they are they in 4-5k range I would definitely give them a chance.

For the rear I am getting the tray removed and getting those MDF boxes with JBL GTO 950SI fitted.

Regarding the Subwoofer, I guess I cannot skip that (Bro is hellbent on getting one, says and I quote "I want to feel the bass in my bones" hehe) and as a matter of fact JBL's GTX1200 and Pio's Dual Coil 1400W are the sufwoofer are on the shortlist. need help in deciding. I have heard that Rockford Fosgate Sub's are pretty but they are hard to get as originals. Market is flooded with fakes.

NOW HERE IS THE SITUATION:

I have 4 front speakers (2 Infinity/pio/JBLs+2 JBL GTOs rear) plus a dedicated Sub woofer and probably tweeters (need advise on that as well)

Will a 4 channel AMP be enough to drive all these components? else may I please request you all to suggest me an alternative?


Lastly, I am quite intrigued by the last option. You know what my requirement is? what would you suggest if I were to opt for the last option.

Thanks again for your reply.

 

[ice_wise]

Re: Advice Needed-ICE System

Whoa, that was quick. first of all thanks for your reply ice_wise

Yes, as advised by many here any reading several threads online.

I have decided to keep safe distance from sony. Its disheartening to see that they dont make them like they used to at sony.

Ill try to get in touch with Saroya. thanks!

Regarding Front Speakers, I was told that they only 4 inches are able to fit in Zen's front doors hence I opted for infinity series. The shopkeeper was hellbent with Sony & JBL but for the front doors I wanted little bit premium hence I opted for JBL's Infinity series. I have heard that Hertz and Focal are good but they are very costly. If they are they in 4-5k range I would definitely give them a chance.

For the rear I am getting the tray removed and getting those MDF boxes with JBL GTO 950SI fitted.

Regarding the Subwoofer, I guess I cannot skip that (Bro is hellbent on getting one, says and I quote "I want to feel the bass in my bones" hehe) and as a matter of fact JBL's GTX1200 and Pio's Dual Coil 1400W are the sufwoofer are on the shortlist. need help in deciding. I have heard that Rockford Fosgate Sub's are pretty but they are hard to get as originals. Market is flooded with fakes.

NOW HERE IS THE SITUATION:

I have 4 front speakers (2 Infinity/pio/JBLs+2 JBL GTOs rear) plus a dedicated Sub woofer and probably tweeters (need advise on that as well)

Will a 4 channel AMP be enough to drive all these components? else may I please request you all to suggest me an alternative?


Lastly, I am quite intrigued by the last option. You know what my requirement is? what would you suggest if I were to opt for the last option.

Thanks again for your reply.

See, 4 channel amplifier has 4 output points and will be able to run only 4 things at a time. Subwoofer requires amplifier power (necessary) and speakers don't. You will have to bridge 2 channels for subwoofer (bridging increases power output by around 4 but 2 channels are combined to 1) and you should connect front 2 channels to front speakers. Rear speakers can be connected to HU directly. For running all things, you need 2 amplifiers - 1 four channel and 1 mono/two channel. Not worth it! It is better to get 1 four channel for front speakers and subwoofer.

4" speaker size is a limitation. You will not get components except Kicker ES4 but you can go for a coaxial, no need for tweeters with coaxials. Infinity is also good.

Don't go for boxes, they will destroy the soundstage. Get an MDF tray, it is *the* best option for 6x9 coaxials.

Out of dual coil Pioneer and GTX1200, I would opt for JBL as dual coil woofer would need 4 channels of amplifier. You will need another amplifier for your speakers as running speakers on HU and subwoofer on amplifier isn't a good idea. GTX1200 is a good subwoofer, I have heard it in Alto and it is very hard-hitting subwoofer. Get it in a sealed box and your brother will feel that bone-shaking as it goes as low as 23Hz in the frequency range and has a high BL (both better than Pioneer Champion). Rockford is good but is better suited for calm listening, not to your brother's taste.

Sony is good in amplifiers but not so in HU and speakers.

For the last option, i.e. front speakers and subwoofer, I would suggest the following :

HU - 4.5k (Get a bluetooth one)
Front speakers (4" Coaxials) - Rs. 3k
Amp (4 Ch) - Rs. 5k
Subwoofer - Rs. 3k
Box, spacers, wiring, connectors - Rs. 2.5k
Labour - Rs. 1k

Total - 19k.

If you want from Faridabad, I know a person who gives GTX1200 for 3k (without B/W) with sealed box.

 

[drive_angry]

Re: Advice Needed-ICE System

See, 4 channel amplifier has 4 output points and will be able to run only 4 things at a time. Subwoofer requires amplifier power (necessary) and speakers don't. You will have to bridge 2 channels for subwoofer (bridging increases power output by around 4 but 2 channels are combined to 1) and you should connect front 2 channels to front speakers. Rear speakers can be connected to HU directly. For running all things, you need 2 amplifiers - 1 four channel and 1 mono/two channel. Not worth it! It is better to get 1 four channel for front speakers and subwoofer.

4" speaker size is a limitation. You will not get components except Kicker ES4 but you can go for a coaxial, no need for tweeters with coaxials. Infinity is also good.

Don't go for boxes, they will destroy the soundstage. Get an MDF tray, it is *the* best option for 6x9 coaxials.

Out of dual coil Pioneer and GTX1200, I would opt for JBL as dual coil woofer would need 4 channels of amplifier. You will need another amplifier for your speakers as running speakers on HU and subwoofer on amplifier isn't a good idea. GTX1200 is a good subwoofer, I have heard it in Alto and it is very hard-hitting subwoofer. Get it in a sealed box and your brother will feel that bone-shaking as it goes as low as 23Hz in the frequency range and has a high BL (both better than Pioneer Champion). Rockford is good but is better suited for calm listening, not to your brother's taste.

Sony is good in amplifiers but not so in HU and speakers.

For the last option, i.e. front speakers and subwoofer, I would suggest the following :

HU - 4.5k (Get a bluetooth one)
Front speakers (4" Coaxials) - Rs. 3k
Amp (4 Ch) - Rs. 5k
Subwoofer - Rs. 3k
Box, spacers, wiring, connectors - Rs. 2.5k
Labour - Rs. 1k

Total - 19k.

If you want from Faridabad, I know a person who gives GTX1200 for 3k (without B/W) with sealed box.

Thanks Ice_Wise for your quick reply

Now I actually have more questions :-)

now, as per your previous post:

Front Speakers: I guess I need to chose those whose which actually doesn't require tweeters. I have read its advisable to put components in the front and coaxials at the back.somewhere around 150 RMS would be decent enough.

Rear Speakers: So JBL GTO 950SI is finalized. but I am told by the dealer to go with MDF BOX rather than MDF TRAY. He said it will produce more efficient sound. but if MDF tray is advisable then I will definitely go with it. Please advise

Sub woofer: I know JBL has a decent bass but again the dealer says that go with Pio (1400W) as it produces better quality sound (due to dual voice coil) than any woofer in the price bracket.

For the amps: I am thinking:

1) Class AB Amplifier (4-Channel Amplifier): to power all the four speakers.
2) Class D/AB Amplifier (2-Channel Amplifier): to power the Sub-Woofer.

PS: I am from Chandigarh :-)

 

[ice_wise]

Re: Advice Needed-ICE System

Thanks Ice_Wise for your quick reply

Now I actually have more questions :-)

now, as per your previous post:

Front Speakers: I guess I need to chose those whose which actually doesn't require tweeters. I have read its advisable to put components in the front and coaxials at the back.somewhere around 150 RMS would be decent enough.

Rear Speakers: So JBL GTO 950SI is finalized. but I am told by the dealer to go with MDF BOX rather than MDF TRAY. He said it will produce more efficient sound. but if MDF tray is advisable then I will definitely go with it. Please advise

Sub woofer: I know JBL has a decent bass but again the dealer says that go with Pio (1400W) as it produces better quality sound (due to dual voice coil) than any woofer in the price bracket.

For the amps: I am thinking:

1) Class AB Amplifier (4-Channel Amplifier): to power all the four speakers.
2) Class D/AB Amplifier (2-Channel Amplifier): to power the Sub-Woofer.

PS: I am from Chandigarh :-)

No problem buddy, just shoot questions and I will be happy to answer.

Front Speakers -

See, there are 2 types we are talking about. Coaxials and components. Coaxials have an inbuilt tweeter and don't need additional tweeters (it will result in sharp sound if done) while components come with a seperate tweeter as a package. Components give better sound because of seperate drivers to handle different frquencies. But they are available in 6-6.5" sizes mainly and only Kicker ES4 comes in 4" I think. For coaxials, you have a better choice like Polk 541 (not sure if this is the correct model no.) and variety in 4" also. RMS of the speakers isn't much important in case you are adding an amplifier as utlimately the amplifier will power the speakers and it makes around 60-75w RMS.

Rear Speakers -

MDF box aren't as efficient as tray in overall music. For bass, the smaller the box size the tighter bass you will get. Sealed box arrangement is preferred for bass-only equipment like subwoofers. 6x9 coaxials are free-air speakers and need space to baffle freely. I think your installer is talking about sealed box, which are very bad for speakers also. If boxes are not sealed, then also it is stupidity to get them instead of tray as they will eat up your boot space also. This open box arrangement is done in SUVs as there is no space to mount parcel tray. So, get a tray!

Subwoofer -

Your dealer is wrong about subwoofer. Dual voice coil or single voice coil doesn't determine sound quality. SQ will depends on the brand only. Dual voice coil provides an option to wire the subwoofer to present a 2 Ohm load to amplifier. You would have seen in Amplifier specs that 100w RMS at 4 Ohm and 130w RMS at 2 Ohm. Lesser Ohms means the amp can give more power provided your subwoofer can handle the 2 Ohm load. Dual voice coil has only this benefit that amplifier will give more power to it. That's it. But Dual voice coil woofer would need all 4 channels of your amplifier, or one mono amplifier capable of 2 Ohm, which would set you back by 5k at least. Running only subwoofer on amplifier power and speakers by HU power will result in bass-heavy soundstage where you won't find decent vocals. Pioneers generally are better in quantity bass, while JBLs excel in quality bass. Take your pick!

Are you planning for 2 amplifiers? And one more question, do you want products with bill/warranty?

 

[drive_angry]

Re: Advice Needed-ICE System

No problem buddy, just shoot questions and I will be happy to answer.

Front Speakers -

See, there are 2 types we are talking about. Coaxials and components. Coaxials have an inbuilt tweeter and don't need additional tweeters (it will result in sharp sound if done) while components come with a seperate tweeter as a package. Components give better sound because of seperate drivers to handle different frquencies. But they are available in 6-6.5" sizes mainly and only Kicker ES4 comes in 4" I think. For coaxials, you have a better choice like Polk 541 (not sure if this is the correct model no.) and variety in 4" also. RMS of the speakers isn't much important in case you are adding an amplifier as utlimately the amplifier will power the speakers and it makes around 60-75w RMS.

Rear Speakers -

MDF box aren't as efficient as tray in overall music. For bass, the smaller the box size the tighter bass you will get. Sealed box arrangement is preferred for bass-only equipment like subwoofers. 6x9 coaxials are free-air speakers and need space to baffle freely. I think your installer is talking about sealed box, which are very bad for speakers also. If boxes are not sealed, then also it is stupidity to get them instead of tray as they will eat up your boot space also. This open box arrangement is done in SUVs as there is no space to mount parcel tray. So, get a tray!

Subwoofer -

Your dealer is wrong about subwoofer. Dual voice coil or single voice coil doesn't determine sound quality. SQ will depends on the brand only. Dual voice coil provides an option to wire the subwoofer to present a 2 Ohm load to amplifier. You would have seen in Amplifier specs that 100w RMS at 4 Ohm and 130w RMS at 2 Ohm. Lesser Ohms means the amp can give more power provided your subwoofer can handle the 2 Ohm load. Dual voice coil has only this benefit that amplifier will give more power to it. That's it. But Dual voice coil woofer would need all 4 channels of your amplifier, or one mono amplifier capable of 2 Ohm, which would set you back by 5k at least. Running only subwoofer on amplifier power and speakers by HU power will result in bass-heavy soundstage where you won't find decent vocals. Pioneers generally are better in quantity bass, while JBLs excel in quality bass. Take your pick!

Are you planning for 2 amplifiers? And one more question, do you want products with bill/warranty?

Noob questions alert!

Front Speakers: Then I will definitely go with the component speakers because the car will be self driven most of the times and I want driver to experience best highs possible. I can always get tweeters drilled in the doors or mounted on the front frame. Now the components has been decided need to decide which brand to chose? I haven't seen Polk or Hertz installed in any car.

Rear Speakers -

Yes makes sense. I would want woofer to deliver punchy (bone-rattling :-)) low notes. for MDF tray, would you have any link who might have installed one? wouldn't tray vibrate at higher volumes? I havent seen them to be honest.

Yes the boxes will be sealed and it look like this (Attached)

if you are telling me that this approach is bad then I would go with the tray. I think its cheap.

Subwoofer -
In that case i would go with JBLs 1100watt sub woofer. Also, may I request if there is any other woofer with in 5-6K worth checking out else JBL is fine.

Amp:
Yes, 2 Amps, since you pointed out i have 5 components and I won't be able to run on one 4 channel amplifier.

so i guess a dedicated Woofer amp & and one amp to drive all the speakers/components and yes, I will take then with bill and warranty.

one more question, won't door speakers will get damaged at high volumes if I drive them through amp? trust me they will be running at high volumes most of the times.

Quick Summary:

HU: Pio MVH089UB
Front Speakers: Components- Need to decide on the brand
Rear Speakers: JBL GTO 950SI
Woofer: JBL GT-X1200
Amp1 (4Channel, for Speakers): Need to decide on the brand
Amp2 (4 Channel, since it can be re-used in future, for the woofer): Need to decide on the brand.

 

[ice_wise]

Re: Advice Needed-ICE System

Noob questions alert!

Front Speakers: Then I will definitely go with the component speakers because the car will be self driven most of the times and I want driver to experience best highs possible. I can always get tweeters drilled in the doors or mounted on the front frame. Now the components has been decided need to decide which brand to chose? I haven't seen Polk or Hertz installed in any car.

Rear Speakers -

Yes makes sense. I would want woofer to deliver punchy (bone-rattling :-)) low notes. for MDF tray, would you have any link who might have installed one? wouldn't tray vibrate at higher volumes? I havent seen them to be honest.

Yes the boxes will be sealed and it look like this (Attached)

if you are telling me that this approach is bad then I would go with the tray. I think its cheap.

Subwoofer -
In that case i would go with JBLs 1100watt sub woofer. Also, may I request if there is any other woofer with in 5-6K worth checking out else JBL is fine.

Amp:
Yes, 2 Amps, since you pointed out i have 5 components and I won't be able to run on one 4 channel amplifier.

so i guess a dedicated Woofer amp & and one amp to drive all the speakers/components and yes, I will take then with bill and warranty.

one more question, won't door speakers will get damaged at high volumes if I drive them through amp? trust me they will be running at high volumes most of the times.

Quick Summary:

HU: Pio MVH089UB
Front Speakers: Components- Need to decide on the brand
Rear Speakers: JBL GTO 950SI
Woofer: JBL GT-X1200
Amp1 (4Channel, for Speakers): Need to decide on the brand
Amp2 (4 Channel, since it can be re-used in future, for the woofer): Need to decide on the brand.

Answers to Noob Questions Alert!

Front Speakers - Components are hard to find in 4" size. If you are willing to do drilling/cutting, etc., get 6.5" components and cut the doorpad to fit them nicely. Believe me, the difference is vast when compared to 4" speakers and you will never regret cutting of the doorpad. Get JBL or Pioneer components of 6.5" size and power them through amplifier, you will get crystal clear sound quality. BTW I have Hertz components in my car, surprised to hear that you haven't seen any car with Hertz. Saroya sirji has Polk 4" in his Alto's dashboard.

Rear Speakers - Yes these boxes will damage the speakers and eat up your boot space also. Get tray installed. Now since you have made your mind to get a subwoofer, I would suggest you to skip rear speakers as most of your sound will come from rear, which isn't good for listening. Simce you said you will be only 2 in the car mostly, skip these and invest in other equipment instead. I have anyway attached link of a tray from TAI at the end.

Subwoofer - 1100w JBL is outdated now, GTX1200 is good. Infact the entire GTX series is new and modern, more efficient with high BL and xMax. In 5-6k budget, you can look for Pioneer Single Voice Coil ones. In this budget, JBL and Pioneer are fine.

No, if you get capable speakers (55-60w RMS minimum), they will not be damaged at high volumes (high means around 75% and not full). Good that you are opting for another 4 channel for subwoofer. You won't be able to accomodate all this with bill/warranty in 20k.

HU - 3.5k
Front Speakers - 3.5k
Rear Speakers - 4k
Sub - 3.5k
Amp x2 - 10k
Wiring, Misc - 3.5k
TOTAL = ~28k.

But..

Consider this, get 2 6.5" components at front and 12" sealed subwoofer at the back, power them with a 4 Ch amplifier. You will be amazed by the quality and clarity.

Posting cost-break up under this method -

HU - 3.5k
Front 6.5" Coaxials (Mid end, like legendary Polk DB6501) - 6.5k
Subwoofer (Single coil) - 3.5k
Amp (for front comps, rear sub) - 5k
Wiring, Misc - 2.5k
TOTAL = ~21k

This Link

 

[drive_angry]

Re: Advice Needed-ICE System

Answers to Noob Questions Alert!

Front Speakers - Components are hard to find in 4" size. If you are willing to do drilling/cutting, etc., get 6.5" components and cut the doorpad to fit them nicely. Believe me, the difference is vast when compared to 4" speakers and you will never regret cutting of the doorpad. Get JBL or Pioneer components of 6.5" size and power them through amplifier, you will get crystal clear sound quality. BTW I have Hertz components in my car, surprised to hear that you haven't seen any car with Hertz. Saroya sirji has Polk 4" in his Alto's dashboard.

Rear Speakers - Yes these boxes will damage the speakers and eat up your boot space also. Get tray installed. Now since you have made your mind to get a subwoofer, I would suggest you to skip rear speakers as most of your sound will come from rear, which isn't good for listening. Simce you said you will be only 2 in the car mostly, skip these and invest in other equipment instead. I have anyway attached link of a tray from TAI at the end.

Subwoofer - 1100w JBL is outdated now, GTX1200 is good. Infact the entire GTX series is new and modern, more efficient with high BL and xMax. In 5-6k budget, you can look for Pioneer Single Voice Coil ones. In this budget, JBL and Pioneer are fine.

No, if you get capable speakers (55-60w RMS minimum), they will not be damaged at high volumes (high means around 75% and not full). Good that you are opting for another 4 channel for subwoofer. You won't be able to accomodate all this with bill/warranty in 20k.

HU - 3.5k
Front Speakers - 3.5k
Rear Speakers - 4k
Sub - 3.5k
Amp x2 - 10k
Wiring, Misc - 3.5k
TOTAL = ~28k.

But..

Consider this, get 2 6.5" components at front and 12" sealed subwoofer at the back, power them with a 4 Ch amplifier. You will be amazed by the quality and clarity.

Posting cost-break up under this method -

HU - 3.5k
Front 6.5" Coaxials (Mid end, like legendary Polk DB6501) - 6.5k
Subwoofer (Single coil) - 3.5k
Amp (for front comps, rear sub) - 5k
Wiring, Misc - 2.5k
TOTAL = ~21k

This Link

Thanks again sir for answering all my questions patiently. Really appreciate it!

This car has very sentimental feelings so I don't think parents would allow any tampering. For tweeters installation I had hard time convincing..You can very well imagine it has a Sony cassette player so I think it would be difficult to get the nod on door cutting. Would you by chance have any link as how the cutting would take place and what's the end result. I guess I can with front components only set up if the process is reversible.

I tried getting in touch with Saroya Ji. I can't seem to find PM button. I have sent him friend request though. Let's see when he gets back.

Ahh nice. I have heard nothing but better things for hertz components. How would you rate them? They are very costly. Is it worth it?

Rear Speakers - One question. If I skip these speakers won't bass will overpower the music? I mean there will be no vocals. I am sorry for the question but this popped in my mind. Also I will check if zen can accommodate 6 inch speakers. From one post, I see that zen estillo can accommodate six inches components.

Subwoofer - My apologies, I meant JBL GT-X1200. This is decided then. I have to buy a good box though. Any references for that?

Front components are still a mystery. First I'll do tomorrow is get the door size for zen checked. Is there any way to do it yourself at home?

I would trouble you let me know the good amplifiers so that can be used in the future as well. I have heard Blaus, RFs and JBL makes VFM Amps but expert advice is always welcome.

Thanks for the MDF tray link. This the the tray I had in my Santro. Darn thing vibrates like anything..Is it supposed to fixed? Held by screws?

 

[ice_wise]

Re: Advice Needed-ICE System

Thanks again sir for answering all my questions patiently. Really appreciate it!

This car has very sentimental feelings so I don't think parents would allow any tampering. For tweeters installation I had hard time convincing..You can very well imagine it has a Sony cassette player so I think it would be difficult to get the nod on door cutting. Would you by chance have any link as how the cutting would take place and what's the end result. I guess I can with front components only set up if the process is reversible.

I tried getting in touch with Saroya Ji. I can't seem to find PM button. I have sent him friend request though. Let's see when he gets back.

Ahh nice. I have heard nothing but better things for hertz components. How would you rate them? They are very costly. Is it worth it?

Rear Speakers - One question. If I skip these speakers won't bass will overpower the music? I mean there will be no vocals. I am sorry for the question but this popped in my mind. Also I will check if zen can accommodate 6 inch speakers. From one post, I see that zen estillo can accommodate six inches components.

Subwoofer - My apologies, I meant JBL GT-X1200. This is decided then. I have to buy a good box though. Any references for that?

Front components are still a mystery. First I'll do tomorrow is get the door size for zen checked. Is there any way to do it yourself at home?

I would trouble you let me know the good amplifiers so that can be used in the future as well. I have heard Blaus, RFs and JBL makes VFM Amps but expert advice is always welcome.

Thanks for the MDF tray link. This the the tray I had in my Santro. Darn thing vibrates like anything..Is it supposed to fixed? Held by screws?

I don't think this process is reversible. Once you cut the doorpad, there is no way you can switch back to stock look. Have a look at the pictures in the link I have attached at the end of this post on how the end result would be (after altering the doorpads of Alto, Zen's case would also be similar).

I will send a PM to Saroya, he will be here soon. Don't worry.

Hertz components are very good and suit my taste perfectly. Deici series is the starting range for Hertz and it is priced at par with JBL and Pioneer mid-hi level equipment. Next is Energy series which is also good. Further next is Hi-Energy series, which I am having! You should listen to each brand as different brands have different signatures. Hertz is bit on the vocals side, while Infinity is on the louder side. Focal, Polk, etc. provide a mix.

Rear Speakers - If your car was a long sedan like Optra or a big SUV, with large cabin space to cover, then absence of rear speakers would have been felt. But your cabin is compact and too much equipment would make sound levels too high in the car. So, stay with minimal but good quality equipment. For the front seat occupants, absence or even presence of rear speakers won't be felt. Good quality speakers at front and a thumping woofer at the back would be more than enough for good music for front occupants.

Zen Estilo has bigger doorpads (tallboy design) and it would take 6". I doubt if we will be able to 6" in jelly bean Zen (I think you have old one, right?). You can DIY by opening the doorpad of your car and measuring the speaker provision size. There will be a few screws to remove, the window lever (if manual windows) and a few clips to remove, after which you can take the doorpad off. Your installer would also check easily or he may already know the perfect size.

For a good woofer box, get in touch with the "Ustad Ji" of your area! Usually his boys do jugaad work which is nothing more than a functional box, which does the work. For JBL GTX1200, ask that expert box-fabricator to make a subwoofer box with 1 Ft per side internal measurement (1 Cu Ft or more internal volume) and cover it up with felt fabric to match your boot carpet. Ask him to use glue generously to cover up all the spaces and gaps to make the box air-tight. If possible, get a seperate wiring provision set in the box (to connect subwoofer wires, like it is in branded boxes) or if he drills a simple hole, pass the subwoofer wire, make a knot and ask him to use more glue and seal thw hole also. The idea is to make the box air-tight. Simple!

Blaupunkt 470SF, JBL GXA644SI, Blaupunkt EMA455, Sony 1000w, Kenwood KAC 8405, etc. are some good amplifiers in your budget. 470SF is the best of the lot and can be used in future as well. Costs around 5.5k.

You can secure the MDF tray with screws but then it would not go up when you want to load some odd-sized thing in the boot. If you don't want 6x9 speakers, skip or altogether remove the parcel tray.

Help!! fitting 6" components in alto, where to cut? - Team-BHP

 

[drive_angry]

Re: Advice Needed-ICE System

I don't think this process is reversible. Once you cut the doorpad, there is no way you can switch back to stock look. Have a look at the pictures in the link I have attached at the end of this post on how the end result would be (after altering the doorpads of Alto, Zen's case would also be similar).

I will send a PM to Saroya, he will be here soon. Don't worry.

Hertz components are very good and suit my taste perfectly. Deici series is the starting range for Hertz and it is priced at par with JBL and Pioneer mid-hi level equipment. Next is Energy series which is also good. Further next is Hi-Energy series, which I am having! You should listen to each brand as different brands have different signatures. Hertz is bit on the vocals side, while Infinity is on the louder side. Focal, Polk, etc. provide a mix.

Rear Speakers - If your car was a long sedan like Optra or a big SUV, with large cabin space to cover, then absence of rear speakers would have been felt. But your cabin is compact and too much equipment would make sound levels too high in the car. So, stay with minimal but good quality equipment. For the front seat occupants, absence or even presence of rear speakers won't be felt. Good quality speakers at front and a thumping woofer at the back would be more than enough for good music for front occupants.

Zen Estilo has bigger doorpads (tallboy design) and it would take 6". I doubt if we will be able to 6" in jelly bean Zen (I think you have old one, right?). You can DIY by opening the doorpad of your car and measuring the speaker provision size. There will be a few screws to remove, the window lever (if manual windows) and a few clips to remove, after which you can take the doorpad off. Your installer would also check easily or he may already know the perfect size.

For a good woofer box, get in touch with the "Ustad Ji" of your area! Usually his boys do jugaad work which is nothing more than a functional box, which does the work. For JBL GTX1200, ask that expert box-fabricator to make a subwoofer box with 1 Ft per side internal measurement (1 Cu Ft or more internal volume) and cover it up with felt fabric to match your boot carpet. Ask him to use glue generously to cover up all the spaces and gaps to make the box air-tight. If possible, get a seperate wiring provision set in the box (to connect subwoofer wires, like it is in branded boxes) or if he drills a simple hole, pass the subwoofer wire, make a knot and ask him to use more glue and seal thw hole also. The idea is to make the box air-tight. Simple!

Blaupunkt 470SF, JBL GXA644SI, Blaupunkt EMA455, Sony 1000w, Kenwood KAC 8405, etc. are some good amplifiers in your budget. 470SF is the best of the lot and can be used in future as well. Costs around 5.5k.

You can secure the MDF tray with screws but then it would not go up when you want to load some odd-sized thing in the boot. If you don't want 6x9 speakers, skip or altogether remove the parcel tray.

Help!! fitting 6" components in alto, where to cut? - Team-BHP

I had a look at few images. I guess I try convincing folks that don't budge outwards as few of them did budge outwards but rest kinda have grill on the doors. I guess it really depends on the guy. Would you know who can help me here in Chandigarh? But ice_wise, I would appreciate if you can suggest me something without ruining stock look. I don't want to compromise on the sound quality too.

Your advise about quality over quantity makes sense but if I am unable to fit speakers in the front then I have no other option but to go with the GTOs at the back.

Yes, it was posted on one of your links that it can accommodate only 4 inch speakers. And yes I have old zen. Door pic attached below.

Awesome woofer box tip: I'll be making notes and check all boxes during preparation of the box itself but the question is how do I pick the best box? Do I pick a slim one tall one or a square one? I mean which shape is most efficient?

Blaupunkt 470SF it is. It was also recommended by friend. See this amp is just 800W and costs high. But JBL or Sony amps are 1000W but actually are cheaper.. Why is that? Brand name? Or quality?

As this car will be used by my brother (sometimes by me when I want to show off my cool ICE to friends) I think we can get it fastened this time around.

Thanks for all the support given to me on this forum it's truly overwhelming.

 

[ice_wise]

Re: Advice Needed-ICE System

I had a look at few images. I guess I try convincing folks that don't budge outwards as few of them did budge outwards but rest kinda have grill on the doors. I guess it really depends on the guy. Would you know who can help me here in Chandigarh? But ice_wise, I would appreciate if you can suggest me something without ruining stock look. I don't want to compromise on the sound quality too.

Your advise about quality over quantity makes sense but if I am unable to fit speakers in the front then I have no other option but to go with the GTOs at the back.

Yes, it was posted on one of your links that it can accommodate only 4 inch speakers. And yes I have old zen. Door pic attached below.

Awesome woofer box tip: I'll be making notes and check all boxes during preparation of the box itself but the question is how do I pick the best box? Do I pick a slim one tall one or a square one? I mean which shape is most efficient?

Blaupunkt 470SF it is. It was also recommended by friend. See this amp is just 800W and costs high. But JBL or Sony amps are 1000W but actually are cheaper.. Why is that? Brand name? Or quality?

As this car will be used by my brother (sometimes by me when I want to show off my cool ICE to friends) I think we can get it fastened this time around.

Thanks for all the support given to me on this forum it's truly overwhelming.

One other thing you can try to maintain stock look is -

Get a box made by your installer to accomodate 6.5" component, which is like a table (4 legs, 1 top with 6.5" hole) and place it below your front seats with components. That would be the best choice though a bit awkward as sound will come front below as compared to side. You can also try a reverse |_| arrangement which will not move around much. Make sure the box has 2 sides open for air passage.

Doorpad provision looks 4" only, no need to check.

All woofer boxes are efficient as long as internal volume remains the same. Square boxes are easy to make as internal volume calculation is easier (multiply all sides). So you can go with a square one.

470SF has higher RMS than all others. RMS is more important as it means you amplifier can give that much output always (minimum) while max power will be seen (or used) only when you turn the volume to extreme levels. So, higher RMS is more expensive than higher Max power. I have Pioneer amplifier with 1000w Max, but 500w RMS - costs around 3 times the 470SF.

I hope I answered all your doubts.

 

[drive_angry]

Re: Advice Needed-ICE System

One other thing you can try to maintain stock look is -

Get a box made by your installer to accomodate 6.5" component, which is like a table (4 legs, 1 top with 6.5" hole) and place it below your front seats with components. That would be the best choice though a bit awkward as sound will come front below as compared to side. You can also try a reverse |_| arrangement which will not move around much. Make sure the box has 2 sides open for air passage.

Doorpad provision looks 4" only, no need to check.

All woofer boxes are efficient as long as internal volume remains the same. Square boxes are easy to make as internal volume calculation is easier (multiply all sides). So you can go with a square one.

470SF has higher RMS than all others. RMS is more important as it means you amplifier can give that much output always (minimum) while max power will be seen (or used) only when you turn the volume to extreme levels. So, higher RMS is more expensive than higher Max power. I have Pioneer amplifier with 1000w Max, but 500w RMS - costs around 3 times the 470SF.

I hope I answered all your doubts.

Yes ice_wise most of the questions are decided upon.. All thanks to you!

Hmm.. Interesting way to put front components.. But won't I be getting muffled sound by this set up? Where would I be facing the component towards the seat or towards the dashboard? I'll do one thing.. I'll go and check out the market out today.. Chandigarh doesn't have that much variety n innovation but I'll try if they can do this set up.

Summary:

HU: Pio- MVH089UB
Front: Will check and ask for the possible scenarios for a door speaker
Rear: If front components are not installed then JBL GTOs 950SI
Sub Woofer: JBL GTX1200
Amp1: Blau 470SF for Speakers/Components
Amp2: Dedicatedly for the Subwoofer.
Tweeters: On requirement basis.

 

[ice_wise]

Re: Advice Needed-ICE System

Yes ice_wise most of the questions are decided upon.. All thanks to you!

Hmm.. Interesting way to put front components.. But won't I be getting muffled sound by this set up? Where would I be facing the component towards the seat or towards the dashboard? I'll do one thing.. I'll go and check out the market out today.. Chandigarh doesn't have that much variety n innovation but I'll try if they can do this set up.

Summary:

HU: Pio- MVH089UB
Front: Will check and ask for the possible scenarios for a door speaker
Rear: If front components are not installed then JBL GTOs 950SI
Sub Woofer: JBL GTX1200
Amp1: Blau 470SF for Speakers/Components
Amp2: Dedicatedly for the Subwoofer.
Tweeters: On requirement basis.

Fine. I would say divide the summary on 2 conditions :

HU: Pio- MVH089UB
Front: 4" Coaxials
Rear: JBL GTOs 950SI
Sub Woofer: JBL GTX1200
Amp1: Blau 470SF for Speaker
Amp2: Dedicatedly for the Subwoofer (GXA622SI JBL, VFM 2Ch amp or GXA644SI, which can be used in future also)
Tweeters: Not Needed

Cost would be around 25k. Sound stage will be highly rear focussed and not favourable IMHO.

Second case

HU: Pio- MVH089UB
Front: 6.5" Coaxials in Inverted U box (open from 2 sides) like Polk DB6501 or other good ones
Rear: Not needed
Sub Woofer: JBL GTX1200
Amp1: Blau 470SF (Front 2 channels for comps, rear 2 for subwoofer)
Tweeters: Will come with components

Total would be around 21k. Sound stage will be balanced and a lot better because of better components at front.

Yes the sound will be bit muffled but main difference would be in the feel of sound. Sound will be coming from below the seat instead of near your legs, that is it. I don't think this is a bad idea as difference in output of 6.5" components and 4" coaxials is H U G E. Since you are getting components, most high notes of audio will sound normal i.e. from dashboard tweeters but mid-bass notes will be slightly different that conventional arrangement. No big deal as people even have under seat woofers and are happy with them. Idea is very simple, talk to your MDF fabricator for building the box. It is like removing the base and any 2 opposite sides of the subwoofer box.

 

[drive_angry]

Re: Advice Needed-ICE System

Fine. I would say divide the summary on 2 conditions :

HU: Pio- MVH089UB
Front: 4" Coaxials
Rear: JBL GTOs 950SI
Sub Woofer: JBL GTX1200
Amp1: Blau 470SF for Speaker
Amp2: Dedicatedly for the Subwoofer (GXA622SI JBL, VFM 2Ch amp or GXA644SI, which can be used in future also)
Tweeters: Not Needed

Cost would be around 25k. Sound stage will be highly rear focussed and not favourable IMHO.

Second case

HU: Pio- MVH089UB
Front: 6.5" Coaxials in Inverted U box (open from 2 sides) like Polk DB6501 or other good ones
Rear: Not needed
Sub Woofer: JBL GTX1200
Amp1: Blau 470SF (Front 2 channels for comps, rear 2 for subwoofer)
Tweeters: Will come with components

Total would be around 21k. Sound stage will be balanced and a lot better because of better components at front.

Yes the sound will be bit muffled but main difference would be in the feel of sound. Sound will be coming from below the seat instead of near your legs, that is it. I don't think this is a bad idea as difference in output of 6.5" components and 4" coaxials is H U G E. Since you are getting components, most high notes of audio will sound normal i.e. from dashboard tweeters but mid-bass notes will be slightly different that conventional arrangement. No big deal as people even have under seat woofers and are happy with them. Idea is very simple, talk to your MDF fabricator for building the box. It is like removing the base and any 2 opposite sides of the subwoofer box.

I just came back after roaming around many shops in Chandigarh. Surprised to see people are still stuck on Sony's and Nippon's.

Though I don't like most the shops but there was this shop. Car Life Sector-28. That guy seemed to know what he was talking about so I asked to chalk up the estimate. This is what he gave me.

I asked him what are the alternatives for the front door speakers of Zen? I asked would 6 inch components be able to fit? He bluntly said why not, to which I replied how? And I additionally said that I don't want any cutting shutting. He said some thing like "Sir, nayi jaali lag jayegi Kuch kaatne ki zarurat Nani padegi" I didn't understand this part. He said when I will bring the car he will show me. I asked at what price. He said it will be free or cost will be included in the components.

I asked the same thing from 2-3 shops who were working on audis n beemers.. All said same thing.. No need of cutting.. Jaali lag jayegi and magnet door ok bhi nahi touch karegi. I wonder how will they do that?

This is the price of the components here in Chandigarh

HU: Pio- MVH089UB--Rs. 3200/-
Front components: Kicker (SoundGate: 4500/- JBL: 6000/- Infinity Reference: 8000/-) he said kicker n JBL has good punch, infinity n polk are good for vocals. Need Expert advise
Rear: If front components are not installed then JBL GTOs 950SI- I guess this can be eliminated now but the price is 4500/-
Sub Woofer: JBL GTX1200: 5200/-
Amp1: Blau 470SF for Speakers/Components: He said PIO amps or JBLs will be the best.
Blaus he said for 6700/-.
He said JBL GTX series are good (@ 6700) I said GTX series are of no good and heats up a lot. then he said take GXA series at 5700/-

I have few questions here

Q1: Would you suggest purchasing a monoblock Amp for the Sub?
Q2: Since monoblock block has one output can I run 2 subs in series on it. If I plan to use it in my other car (Innova)

MDF tray he said is of 750/- bucks

Gauge 8 cables for fitting he said he have of C(K)onnect brand (@ 1250/-) I said any reputed brand like bull audio, kicker, etc. he said out of stock. shall I purchase it online of some decent brand?

Misc charges 500-100 on labour.

Need help of some resident expert to determine the best shoppers in Chandigarh . They (ICE Dealers) all seemed like liars n thieves here.