ICE for My Alto LX 2007 Model

[Vaib2707]

Hello everyone,

I am new here..joined today itself.

I am planning to install a complete new system in my alto lx (2007 model). This is the first time i will be installing any audio system in my car so i don't have much knowledge about ICE. Everything i have learned so far is from the internet and mostly here at THE AUTOMOTIVE INDIA.

I have a fixed budget of 15000 (including installation and wiring). Here are the components i have zeroed onto till now.

HU - Pioneer DEH-X4890BT - Rs 7990 (price as mentioned on pioneer website)
Front speakers - From the recommendation online, i have three options
1. Hertz DCX100 - RS 2500 (as on snapdeal)
2. Polk 401 - Rs 4490 (snapdeal, says sold out)
Rear Speakers - Not decided yet.

Please suggest some decent rear speakers. MDF tray with cutouts for 6"x9" speaker is already installed.

Also how is this head unit in terms of SQ. andy other options are there for front speakers.

I prefer a surround sound with clear mids and lows. I do not like heavy bass. The rear speaker should enough bass according to the car size. Most of the time i listen bollywood music, soft rock and hip hop

Please guys give some decent advice for this setup.

 

[ice_wise]

Hello everyone,

I am new here..joined today itself.

I am planning to install a complete new system in my alto lx (2007 model). This is the first time i will be installing any audio system in my car so i don't have much knowledge about ICE. Everything i have learned so far is from the internet and mostly here at THE AUTOMOTIVE INDIA.

I have a fixed budget of 15000 (including installation and wiring). Here are the components i have zeroed onto till now.

HU - Pioneer DEH-X4890BT - Rs 7990 (price as mentioned on pioneer website)
Front speakers - From the recommendation online, i have three options
1. Hertz DCX100 - RS 2500 (as on snapdeal)
2. Polk 401 - Rs 4490 (snapdeal, says sold out)
Rear Speakers - Not decided yet.

Please suggest some decent rear speakers. MDF tray with cutouts for 6"x9" speaker is already installed.

Also how is this head unit in terms of SQ. andy other options are there for front speakers.

I prefer a surround sound with clear mids and lows. I do not like heavy bass. The rear speaker should enough bass according to the car size. Most of the time i listen bollywood music, soft rock and hip hop

Please guys give some decent advice for this setup.

Hi Vaib2707.

Alto has 4" provisions on dashboard corners. Polk 401, Kicker ES40 and Hertz DCX100 are 4" coaxials available that will fit. Hertz will be good for your taste, but I suggest you to audition as many brands as possible. Cost will be under 3k for these.

For rear coaxials, you can look out for JBL GTO949 (or 699 or 959). Blaupunkt, Pioneer (bass heavy) and Hertz coaxials are other 6x9 choices. For your taste, JBL and Hertz will be best but again audition before deciding. Cost would be under 5k. Fit them on the existing tray.

Wiring and labour, spacers, connectors, etc. will cost you upto 2k. Negotiate hard on this part as it is variable with all aftermarket sellers.

Now you have approx. 5k (or 6k) for the HU. You can get a single DIN for this price from Pioneer, JVC, etc. Look for power output (would be 50w max generally) and other features you will need, because SQ is dependent more on speakers than HU. I think a 1DIN with USB, Aux, Bluetooth will be perfect for Alto, why spend more for 2DIN. If going 2DIN way, get touchscreen.

If you go for grey market products (without bill/warranty), front speakers will cost you 1.5-2k, rear ones will be 3.5-4k, wiring and all will be same 2k. You will have 7-8k for HU now, and can get 2DIN with basic features or 1DIN with advanced features, or even a basic entry level touchscreen for 1k more.

I think you will already have wiring from your previous ICE setup. Right?

 

[Vaib2707]

Hi Vaib2707.

Alto has 4" provisions on dashboard corners. Polk 401, Kicker ES40 and Hertz DCX100 are 4" coaxials available that will fit. Hertz will be good for your taste, but I suggest you to audition as many brands as possible. Cost will be under 3k for these.

For rear coaxials, you can look out for JBL GTO949 (or 699 or 959). Blaupunkt, Pioneer (bass heavy) and Hertz coaxials are other 6x9 choices. For your taste, JBL and Hertz will be best but again audition before deciding. Cost would be under 5k. Fit them on the existing tray.

Wiring and labour, spacers, connectors, etc. will cost you upto 2k. Negotiate hard on this part as it is variable with all aftermarket sellers.

Now you have approx. 5k (or 6k) for the HU. You can get a single DIN for this price from Pioneer, JVC, etc. Look for power output (would be 50w max generally) and other features you will need, because SQ is dependent more on speakers than HU. I think a 1DIN with USB, Aux, Bluetooth will be perfect for Alto, why spend more for 2DIN. If going 2DIN way, get touchscreen.

If you go for grey market products (without bill/warranty), front speakers will cost you 1.5-2k, rear ones will be 3.5-4k, wiring and all will be same 2k. You will have 7-8k for HU now, and can get 2DIN with basic features or 1DIN with advanced features, or even a basic entry level touchscreen for 1k more.

I think you will already have wiring from your previous ICE setup. Right?

Thanks for the advice ice_wise,

The head unit i have selected is Pioneer DEH-X4890B. It is a single din unit with peak output of 50Wx4. What i have heard form most of my friends that the processing quality of HU should not be compromised on.

If the signals reaching the best speakers are not good, the speaker will not give a good output. Speakers will not add much to the input given to them.

For this reason, i have selected the above mentioned HU. This HU can be bought for 6500 at the dealer but i still need to audition it.

As per your advice, 2k need to be kept aside for wiring.There is no wiring in my car as this will the very ICE install. I will try to get this cost down to 1.5k

The remaining amount 7k is left for speakers. I will audition all the options mentioned for the front speakers. They will cost another 2.5-3k.

So the remaining, 4-4.5k, in this i have to manage the rear speakers.
As suggested, JBL GTO 949, as per the specs of these, 949 is a 400w speaker with 100w RMS. Isn't it too much for a car like alto ?
Also will it not overpower the front speakers ?

Is it possible to balance out the sound to an extent by keeping the RMS value of rear speakers a little low

Also is the head unit i have selected sufficient to power these choice of speakers.?

Is it advisable to have the same brand of speakers in front and rear, if yes, please advice some options from polk and hertz in the price range mentioned earlier.

Sorry for so many questions, have no idea about ICE.

 

[ice_wise]

Thanks for the advice ice_wise.

The head unit i have selected is Pioneer DEH-X4890B. It is a single din unit with peak output of 50Wx4. What i have heard form most of my friends that the processing quality of HU should not be compromised on.

You can only know the sound processing quality of the HU after auditioning the HU. But remember, speakers are also as important as the HU. They are the components which finally produce the sound. Auditioning speakers is an easier task as compared to auditioning HU. If you can audition different HU, very good but the change in quality will not be as dramatic as with different speakers. If not, then comparing the specs is the only way to distinguish them.

If the signals reaching the best speakers are not good, the speaker will not give a good output. Speakers will not add much to the input given to them.

As I said earlier, speakers are also important.
Good speakers + Bad HU = Average sound.
Bad speakers + Good HU = Bad sound.
It depends upon the speaker to produce good or bad sound, even if you feed good input to a bad speaker, it will sound bad to the ears.

So, speakers are infact more important.

As per your advice, 2k need to be kept aside for wiring.There is no wiring in my car as this will the very ICE install. I will try to get this cost down to 1.5k

Yes, you can try. But make sure that you do not compromise with quality to an extent that you risk melting off the wires on high load. So, go for medium quality.

So the remaining, 4-4.5k, in this i have to manage the rear speakers.
As suggested, JBL GTO 949, as per the specs of these, 949 is a 400w speaker with 100w RMS. Isn't it too much for a car like alto ?
Also will it not overpower the front speakers ?

949 are very good speakers, with a balanced sound signature. Most people like them. Do note that since you are not adding an amplifier, the speakers will run off the HU - which will give only 50w Max to each speaker. So, all your speakers (no matter how much RMS or Max) will get 50w Maximum at any point of time. No need to worry. I am running around 900w RMS total in my Swift.

Is it possible to balance out the sound to an extent by keeping the RMS value of rear speakers a little low

Sound will already be balanced as each speaker will get the same 50w of power. Sound will vary slightly at the front and back because 2 different sets of speakers will produce different sound (different timing, response, loudness, bass, etc.)

Also is the head unit i have selected sufficient to power these choice of speakers.?

The system would have sounded much better if you had an amplifier to give these speakers a respectable 100-125w power always. But since these are running from the HU, they will be getting only 50w instead of 100/400w and will be underpowered in a way. But for a small cabin car like Alto, you won't feel the lack of power if you are not a big audiophile. Half of the road users run speakers off the HU, with 50w only.

Is it advisable to have the same brand of speakers in front and rear, if yes, please advice some options from polk and hertz in the price range mentioned earlier.

Yes, in fact it is good to have same brands if you are not too good at differentiating sound signatures from different speakers. Polk DXI690 is good but a entry level DX series, so sound output won't be great as such but price will be higher than others because of the brand. Audition and see if you like the output. Look for Hertz DCX690 (not sure if this is the correct model no.) also, it is good for the price (3.5-4k) and will be better if you have Hertz up front also. But it is again an entry level Deici series, so don't expect much output as in JBL's GTO series. GTO949 are most bang for the buck, followed by 699SI if you want a balanced sound from them (not too much bass, not too sharp).

Sorry for so many questions, have no idea about ICE.

No problem!

 

[Vaib2707]

You can only know the sound processing quality of the HU after auditioning the HU. But remember, speakers are also as important as the HU. They are the components which finally produce the sound. Auditioning speakers is an easier task as compared to auditioning HU. If you can audition different HU, very good but the change in quality will not be as dramatic as with different speakers. If not, then comparing the specs is the only way to distinguish them.



As I said earlier, speakers are also important.
Good speakers + Bad HU = Average sound.
Bad speakers + Good HU = Bad sound.
It depends upon the speaker to produce good or bad sound, even if you feed good input to a bad speaker, it will sound bad to the ears.

So, speakers are infact more important.

Thanks for the clarification. This will certainly help during the auditioning stage.

Yes, you can try. But make sure that you do not compromise with quality to an extent that you risk melting off the wires on high load. So, go for medium quality.

Great advice.


949 are very good speakers, with a balanced sound signature. Most people like them. Do note that since you are not adding an amplifier, the speakers will run off the HU - which will give only 50w Max to each speaker. So, all your speakers (no matter how much RMS or Max) will get 50w Maximum at any point of time. No need to worry. I am running around 900w RMS total in my Swift.



Sound will already be balanced as each speaker will get the same 50w of power. Sound will vary slightly at the front and back because 2 different sets of speakers will produce different sound (different timing, response, loudness, bass, etc.)

The system would have sounded much better if you had an amplifier to give these speakers a respectable 100-125w power always. But since these are running from the HU, they will be getting only 50w instead of 100/400w and will be underpowered in a way. But for a small cabin car like Alto, you won't feel the lack of power if you are not a big audiophile. Half of the road users run speakers off the HU, with 50w only.

I have plans of getting an amp in future. I definitely need one as i am an audiophile. Maybe a little too much that is why it gets difficult for me to pick one out of many.

Yes, in fact it is good to have same brands if you are not too good at differentiating sound signatures from different speakers. Polk DXI690 is good but a entry level DX series, so sound output won't be great as such but price will be higher than others because of the brand. Audition and see if you like the output. Look for Hertz DCX690 (not sure if this is the correct model no.) also, it is good for the price (3.5-4k) and will be better if you have Hertz up front also. But it is again an entry level Deici series, so don't expect much output as in JBL's GTO series. GTO949 are most bang for the buck, followed by 699SI if you want a balanced sound from them (not too much bass, not too sharp).

Definitely going to audition the above mentioned models too.

I am planning to get all the hardware from Kashmere gate auto market. One of my friend has got connections there. He may struck a good bargain for me. Any other place recommended for getting the hardware and installation?

Thanks

 

[ice_wise]

Thanks for the clarification. This will certainly help during the auditioning stage.





Great advice.


949 are very good speakers, with a balanced sound signature. Most people like them. Do note that since you are not adding an amplifier, the speakers will run off the HU - which will give only 50w Max to each speaker. So, all your speakers (no matter how much RMS or Max) will get 50w Maximum at any point of time. No need to worry. I am running around 900w RMS total in my Swift.



Sound will already be balanced as each speaker will get the same 50w of power. Sound will vary slightly at the front and back because 2 different sets of speakers will produce different sound (different timing, response, loudness, bass, etc.)





I have plans of getting an amp in future. I definitely need one as i am an audiophile. Maybe a little too much that is why it gets difficult for me to pick one out of many.





Definitely going to audition the above mentioned models too.

I am planning to get all the hardware from Kashmere gate auto market. One of my friend has got connections there. He may struck a good bargain for me. Any other place recommended for getting the hardware and installation?

Thanks

If you have contacts, Kashmere gate is also fine. If you can visit Faridabad, Decora is a good shop, though a bit costly as they have products only with Bill and Warranty.

Why not Karol Bagh market? Just be sure to watch out for fakes.

 

[Vaib2707]

If you have contacts, Kashmere gate is also fine. If you can visit Faridabad, Decora is a good shop, though a bit costly as they have products only with Bill and Warranty.

Why not Karol Bagh market? Just be sure to watch out for fakes.

Can you suggest any good shops in karol bagh ?
Also i am searching for Illusion audio Electra El4.1 but not able to find on anywhere online. Do you know from where can i get these ?

 

[ice_wise]

Can you suggest any good shops in karol bagh ?
Also i am searching for Illusion audio Electra El4.1 but not able to find on anywhere online. Do you know from where can i get these ?

Actually Karol Bagh market stocks common brands mostly like JBL, Pioneer, etc.. For Illusion, you will have to search in professional stores like Driven, where installation and wiring will cost you a bomb. Some shop called Car Kunj (or something similar) had good stock in Karol Bagh, but that used to be many years back. Now I avoid Delhi traffic and get stuff from Faridabad, cheap and original.

Illusion 4.1 are components and you will have to check how much it costs now and if it is on sale still or not. It was 3-4 years back when a friend had got these for his WagonR. I would say stick to coaxials since you are on a budget.

 

[Vaib2707]

Actually Karol Bagh market stocks common brands mostly like JBL, Pioneer, etc.. For Illusion, you will have to search in professional stores like Driven, where installation and wiring will cost you a bomb. Some shop called Car Kunj (or something similar) had good stock in Karol Bagh, but that used to be many years back. Now I avoid Delhi traffic and get stuff from Faridabad, cheap and original.

Illusion 4.1 are components and you will have to check how much it costs now and if it is on sale still or not. It was 3-4 years back when a friend had got these for his WagonR. I would say stick to coaxials since you are on a budget.

As per the official website, this model is still in production and available. But being a professional grade system, it is rarely available with the local dealers (this based on the survey i did sometime back). Please share the location of this Driven store

As i am on a budget i will go with coaxial..but if i am able to squeeze in rear speakers + HU in 10K then i might consider these components for front. 3-4 years back they costed 4.8-5k, the price must have come down now. Need to consider every option mate.

one more question, if suppose i am able to get a good deal for illusion 4.1. Will need an amplifier to power it or the cross over that comes along the speakers is sufficient to distribute the frequencies if not amplify it.

 

[ice_wise]

As per the official website, this model is still in production and available. But being a professional grade system, it is rarely available with the local dealers (this based on the survey i did sometime back). Please share the location of this Driven store

As i am on a budget i will go with coaxial..but if i am able to squeeze in rear speakers + HU in 10K then i might consider these components for front. 3-4 years back they costed 4.8-5k, the price must have come down now. Need to consider every option mate.

one more question, if suppose i am able to get a good deal for illusion 4.1. Will need an amplifier to power it or the cross over that comes along the speakers is sufficient to distribute the frequencies if not amplify it.

Amplifier is not mandatory for running components. Your HU will drive them for the time being and crossover will distribute the frequencies. You can add an amp afterwards, as you will have a much variable budget to opt for better products instead of squeezing everything in current budget.

You can get components from a reputed place and get HU+front speakers+wiring from some small shops. Get the install also done from the small shop. This way you might get all the things under budget.

Driven - E-7, On Rd To Nehru Place East Of Kailash New Delhi. You can Google and find out the contact numbers, give them a call and find out if they can arrange 4.1 comps.

 

[generalmax]

@Ice_wise, was thinking of some bass in the car. Would like your opinion on Bass tubes and sub woofers. I have a swift and a celerio. Both have Sony - XAV 65 - Xplod In Car Visual - 6.2 inch Touch Screen as the player.There is a sub out given in the manual.

Sorry,if I am hijacking the thread.

 

[ice_wise]

@Ice_wise, was thinking of some bass in the car. Would like your opinion on Bass tubes and sub woofers. I have a swift and a celerio. Both have Sony - XAV 65 - Xplod In Car Visual - 6.2 inch Touch Screen as the player.There is a sub out given in the manual.

Sorry,if I am hijacking the thread.

Hi Generalmax.

Both are hatchbacks, and boot space comes at a premium. I would recommend a subwoofer in a sealed/ported enclosure as it will provide a tight and pleasing response than a basstube.

Basstube are ported in a cylindrical enclosure and thus provide long droning basslines. These will go extremely loud when powered sufficiently but lack the kick/punch/hard hitting feel. So the music experience is that bass is heard and not felt.

In a subwoofer, enclosures are small and in case of sealed enclosures, the movement of woofer cone is very controlled which provides for tighter and hard hitting bass. These do go loud but will shake your car badly in the process, so basstubes achieve this loudness at much lesser power levels (which don't shake your car much). Subwoofers blend in only when needed (i.e. they come in only for a boom or two) whereas a basstube will growl for most of the time (even when it is not needed).

Hope this makes the difference clear. Basstube is for bass quantity but subwoofer is for bass quality.

 

[Vaib2707]

You can get components from a reputed place and get HU+front speakers+wiring from some small shops. Get the install also done from the small shop. This way you might get all the things under budget.

Thats a good idea. I will definitely be adding an amp in the future and maybe an under seat active sub woofer

Driven - E-7, On Rd To Nehru Place East Of Kailash New Delhi. You can Google and find out the contact numbers, give them a call and find out if they can arrange 4.1 comps.

Found the address of the shop and their facebook page too. Have messaged them my requirements.

Hi Generalmax.

Both are hatchbacks, and boot space comes at a premium. I would recommend a subwoofer in a sealed/ported enclosure as it will provide a tight and pleasing response than a basstube.

Basstube are ported in a cylindrical enclosure and thus provide long droning basslines. These will go extremely loud when powered sufficiently but lack the kick/punch/hard hitting feel. So the music experience is that bass is heard and not felt.

In a subwoofer, enclosures are small and in case of sealed enclosures, the movement of woofer cone is very controlled which provides for tighter and hard hitting bass. These do go loud but will shake your car badly in the process, so basstubes achieve this loudness at much lesser power levels (which don't shake your car much). Subwoofers blend in only when needed (i.e. they come in only for a boom or two) whereas a basstube will growl for most of the time (even when it is not needed).

Hope this makes the difference clear. Basstube is for bass quantity but subwoofer is for bass quality.

Hi Generalmax,

No problems in asking questions as long as they are relevant to the topics

I too have plans to put an amp and sub woofer in my alto at later stage so the answers to your question will be my reference for the future.

You may consider an under seat active sub woofer for the Celerio. It will save you the boot space and will not need a separate amplifier to power it. And i think it might be sufficient for the Celerio cabin. Here is one option i have in mind for my alto. (but offcourse on a later stage)

Blaupunkt - XLF 200 A - 8 Inch Enclosed with Integrated Class-D Subwoofer (300 W): Buy Blaupunkt - XLF 200 A - 8 Inch Enclosed with Integrated Class-D Subwoofer (300 W) Online at Low Price in India on Snapdeal

I hope this helps

 

[generalmax]

Thanks ice_wise.I am pretty clear about bass tubes now. Means,I will not take it.When I go for a sub woofer,I need an amplifier.Right? Without amp,sub woofers will damage the head unit is what I heard off.So this is what I understood,when you say sealed amp means a sub woofer with an inbuilt amp or an amp added to it.
@ Vaibhav thanks for that suggestion.Seems it is really impressive going by the remarks.

 

[ice_wise]

Thanks ice_wise.I am pretty clear about bass tubes now. Means,I will not take it.When I go for a sub woofer,I need an amplifier.Right? Without amp,sub woofers will damage the head unit is what I heard off.So this is what I understood,when you say sealed amp means a sub woofer with an inbuilt amp or an amp added to it.
@ Vaibhav thanks for that suggestion.Seems it is really impressive going by the remarks.

Yes you will need an amplifier to feed the oower requirements of the subwoofer (usually 300w continuously, while your HU can provide just 50w usually). Without amplifier, either your subwoofer will not perform to the fullest (not even 25%) or internal circuitry of your HU will give up (due to 4 or 5 times increased power demand).

And I meant sealed enclosure (box) for the subwoofer, not sealed amp. Sealed enclosure means you fit the subwoofer in an air-tight box, which gives resistance to the woofer cone and makes its movement (when playing music) controlled, thereby giving you tighter bass.

Vaib2707 - These inbuilt amplifier system are not good according to me. Unless you want the wiring to be really neat, I don't understand the reason for going for subwoofers with inbuilt amps. Their power output is low (150-200w max), if one thing goes kaput (inbuilt amp or sub) you will have to replace both, if you want a show-off kinda setup this one is not for you, and lastly it costs way above than a decent subwoofer and 4 channel amp combined (which gives you a better looking boot, almost equal space as amplifier hardly requures any space, 2-3 times better output, 2 extra channels to run speakers, all at lesser price than inbuilt amp one). If you are really thinking of plonking money in these, get one from the 10k+ range like JBL Basspro12. These 8" ones from Blaupunkt are too less for quality sound output. If you had factory speakers (weak), then these 8" ones would have been good, but not when you have better equipment.

Underseat woofers will never be able to perform as good as conventional 12" woofers (enclosure ones). If you get 6" of 8" ones, then it is average but if you get 10" or 12" one under the boot, you will see that they start giving up at medium-higher volumes where their elder counterparts shine! An amplifier can be mounted under the front seats, and you can get a 10/12" subwoofer in the boot with a compact 1 cubic feet box. This arrangement would work better and will cost you less. In case you need the boot space, there is an option of removing the subwoofer anytime (disconnect 2 wires). If one of your rear seat is empty when you are using the boot, then the subwoofer can be placed there also.

And you will not like a subwoofer booming under your a** either.