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brandoo 16th May 2012 09:43 AM

Re: Swift Petrol vs Diesel Calculation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by terrafield (Post 158660)
Hi

I am just trying to see which is better for 900 KM usage per month. Considering the recent news about diesel de-regularization not sure which is better

I'm considering petrol price as Rs.80 (including couple of expected hikes) and diesel price as Rs.60

Swift ZXI Swift ZDI
Cost 680000 800000
Downpayment 120000 120000
Remaining 560000 680000
EMI 12460 15130
Usage Per Month
(Kms) 900 900
Mileage 12 15
Fuel Cons (Litre) 75 60
Cost 6000 3600
Total Monthly
Expenditure 18460 18730

(Sorry I could not paste spreadsheet cells directly)



But I could not find any cost difference between ZXI and ZDI. I'm not sure if my calculation is correct

Could anyone please provide your inputs?

Resale of Diesel is higher than petrol due to higher price, factor in that as well.
In Delhi Diesel is at 40.90 and petrol at 65. Difference is 14 Rs per liter.
Minimum average is 15 with AC and irrespective of driving style where as petrol will give you 12 only with sedate driving. I am getting regularly 16-17 in city driving (Diesel powered).

I am providing one link, go through it, it will help you in decide.
PETROL V/S DIESEL: COMPREHENSIVE COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS | Articles | Car Forums - CarWale

dharmesh 16th May 2012 09:48 AM

Re: Swift Petrol vs Diesel Calculation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brandoo (Post 162266)
Resale of Diesel is higher than petrol due to higher price, factor in that as well.
In Delhi Diesel is at 40.90 and petrol at 65. Difference is 14 Rs per liter.
Minimum average is 15 with AC and irrespective of driving style where as petrol will give you 12 only with sedate driving. I am getting regularly 16-17 in city driving (Diesel powered).

I am providing one link, go through it, it will help you in decide.
PETROL V/S DIESEL: COMPREHENSIVE COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS | Articles | Car Forums - CarWale

I think you have a typo here. Difference between Diesel and Petrol price is Rs. 24. In mumbai also the difference is similar.

brandoo 16th May 2012 09:53 AM

Re: The Definitive Petrol v/s Diesel Calculator
 
My apology for typo[embarass].
Go through link,
I have factored in resale, insurance, higher maintenance for diesel, etra EMI/Interest for premium on diesel car, savings on fuel,
At the moment I have monthly running of 1000 kms and bought diesel car last June.
Drive diesel in 1600-2200 and no vibration, minimal sound and hoot to drive. It is as refined as petrol when come to driving pleasure.

shailinder 17th May 2012 02:50 PM

Re: The Definitive Petrol v/s Diesel Calculator
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sravanthi (Post 158126)
I have tried it!Good one!

Thanks Sravanthi. [:)]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prathvee (Post 159305)
great work shailinder your excel sheet is very helpful. you did a fantastic job.

Thanks Prathvee. [:)]

Quote:

Originally Posted by indiatraveller (Post 162205)
Hi Shailendra, Agree with most of your calculations. Two things that I found weird were:

1. Why is the difference between the petrol and diesel versions of Fabia added to the Extra EMI? I need to add principal to interest and not to EMI right? So for an additional OTR of 1.5 L for the diesel, I end up paying 2200 * 60 * 1.5 = 1.98 L. If that is the case, I save Rs 1 L over 5 years if I buy the diesel variant.

Why are you multiplying it with 1.5 ?

2. Diesel cars are always costlier to maintain than petrol. So given this running, I will easily lose 50-60 K of what I have saved above thus saving only 30-40 K eventually.

Let me know if I am missing something here.

Reason for adding EMI directly and not the prinicipal amount was to make it simple to understand that how much a person would shell out after all.

Please re-calculate once again the entire amount from OTR prices to EMI and downpayments at initiatial stages. I am sure you would get the exact figure. At any point in time you would not be able to cover the cost in 5 years let alone the saving of 1 lakh in 5 yrs. Unless your running is not high. Eg: if your daily running is 80kms * 30 = 2400 kms. You would end up achieving break even point after 4 yrs and 2-3 months. Considering Petrol at Rs.67/- (Avg. per ltr at 15kms) and Diesel at Rs. 42 (Avg. per ltr at 18kms).

Do let me know if it is still sounds confusing [:)]

brandoo 17th May 2012 03:16 PM

Re: The Definitive Petrol v/s Diesel Calculator
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shailinder (Post 162826)
Thanks Sravanthi. [:)]

Please re-calculate once again the entire amount from OTR prices to EMI and downpayments at initiatial stages. I am sure you would get the exact figure. At any point in time you would not be able to cover the cost in 5 years let alone the saving of 1 lakh in 5 yrs. Unless your running is not high. Eg: if your daily running is 80kms * 30 = 2400 kms. You would end up achieving break even point after 4 yrs and 2-3 months. Considering Petrol at Rs.67/- (Avg. per ltr at 15kms) and Diesel at Rs. 42 (Avg. per ltr at 18kms).

Do let me know if it is still sounds confusing [:)]

Shailinder,
I do not agree with your findings.
One does not need to run 80 kms a day or 2400/month to recover the extra cost. Could you please provide me name of single car which return FE of 15 in petrol with AC in city conditions except alto.
I have never seen petrol cars returning more than 12-13 in city with AC.
Lets take FE of 13 for petrol and 16 for diesel
Running cost for petrol: 12369
Diesel: 6300
Difference: 6069 per month
60 months (5 years): Fuel savings: 364000
Price difference even for top variant of hatch is 1.3 L
Diesel fetch better resale value than petrol.
At the moment with current price of fuel, for 60 months of ownership, 600 kms per month is break even point after factoring in higher maintenance, higher insurance premium, higher EMI or saving 1.3 L and interest.
One can go for petrol till 700 kms per month on account of more refinement.

shailinder 21st May 2012 03:21 PM

Re: The Definitive Petrol v/s Diesel Calculator
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by brandoo (Post 162840)
Shailinder,
I do not agree with your findings.
One does not need to run 80 kms a day or 2400/month to recover the extra cost. Could you please provide me name of single car which return FE of 15 in petrol with AC in city conditions except alto..

Forget Alto my friend, my Estilo gives me around 18-19 during winters (Delhi Manesar route) and in Delhi around 17+. During summer I get around 15+ with AC almost 100% times. It is more to do with individual driving style and nothing much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandoo (Post 162840)
I have never seen petrol cars returning more than 12-13 in city with AC.
Lets take FE of 13 for petrol and 16 for diesel
Running cost for petrol: 12369
Diesel: 6300
Difference: 6069 per month
60 months (5 years): Fuel savings: 364000
Price difference even for top variant of hatch is 1.3 L
Diesel fetch better resale value than petrol.
At the moment with current price of fuel, for 60 months of ownership, 600 kms per month is break even point after factoring in higher maintenance, higher insurance premium, higher EMI or saving 1.3 L and interest.
One can go for petrol till 700 kms per month on account of more refinement.

I can only request you to just check my calculation sheet once again if tried before and you will get the answer. Attaching a picture of it so that it can be of some help to you and others.

Do let me know if it is still not clear.

Note: Please understand my calculation is based on my assumption and at no point in time I am quoting that this is the best way. We all have to use our own way of calulating (if required) before taking a call.

Thanks

brandoo 21st May 2012 04:04 PM

Re: The Definitive Petrol v/s Diesel Calculator
 
With your calculation per year saving*5 years= 290160
Extra Cost for diesel: 280000
Savings: 8160

This saving will further go up simply due to higher resale value of diesel car.

Alto and Estilo both are 1000 CC. So your assumptions for FE are based on Estilo but price difference is based on Fabia.[lol]

Let me tell you Petrol Fabia give at the maz 12 with AC Maximum I have come across. This will be verified by any fabia owner. [frustration] For this matter, I have swift petrol in my family and FE is never more than 13 in city. Even friend's Figo Petrol give him 12 at the max.

Whereas in case of diesel: My personal experience 16-17, Fabia- 17, Swift 16-17 (all these figures are for city). Realistically petrol and diesel FE difference is 4 km/L.
I am trying to remove your bias nothing else. have realistic assumptions and then calculate.
We shouldn't be comparing oranges with apples i.e. FE of 1000 CC car and cost with 12-1300 car.[frustration]

shailinder 21st May 2012 05:17 PM

Re: The Definitive Petrol v/s Diesel Calculator
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brandoo (Post 164180)
With your calculation per year saving*5 years= 290160
Extra Cost for diesel: 280000
Savings: 8160

Above savings are in five years, so annual saving would be Rs. 1632/- per year or Rs 132/- per month. Is it really a saving. Strange if your answer is yes. [cry]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandoo (Post 164180)
This saving will further go up simply due to higher resale value of diesel car. But my friend you are paying premium at the time of taking delivery so higher out flow does not really mean higher inflow.
Alto and Estilo both are 1000 CC. So your assumptions for FE are based on Estilo but price difference is based on Fabia.

Well my friend, mine is a 1061 CC displacement Estilo'07 model and Alto generally people relate with 800 CC displacement. Moreover, I never quoted Alto in any post rather it was you who asked me to name the car who returns more than 15 kms on an avg. and I answered it that my Estilo does it (touchwood). [lol]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandoo (Post 164180)
Let me tell you Petrol Fabia give at the maz 12 with AC Maximum I have come across. This will be verified by any fabia owner. For this matter, I have swift petrol in my family and FE is never more than 13 in city. Even friend's Figo Petrol give him 12 at the max.

Possible. But again it is more related to individual driving style. Moreover, I test drove Fabia 1.6 a long back and before starting the drive MFD was showing 11L/100 KMs = Avg. of 9.09 kms a litre but after the test drive (some 6-7 kms) it was showing 8.2L/100 KMs = Avg. 12.5 kms a litre. So, I would conclude with the driving style.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandoo (Post 164180)
Whereas in case of diesel: My personal experience 16-17, Fabia- 17, Swift 16-17 (all these figures are for city). Realistically petrol and diesel FE difference is 4 km/L.

Possibile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandoo (Post 164180)
I am trying to remove your bias nothing else. have realistic assumptions and then calculate.
We shouldn't be comparing oranges with apples i.e. FE of 1000 CC car and cost with 12-1300 car.

Don't be judgemental by saying that I am bias because I am not. Moreover, I am not comparing cars with engine displacement but the average one would get. Check the image on above post and on the extreme left hand side you will find KMs and average figures.

Please understand that at any point in time I am not saying that my assumption are the best one. Because that is the way I look at it. Moreover, I encourage people to have their own mechanism to judge which fuel type they should go for rather which brand or product they should buy.

I hope above explanation would be of some help to you and others. [:)]

indiatraveller 21st May 2012 09:40 PM

Re: The Definitive Petrol v/s Diesel Calculator
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shailinder (Post 162826)

Reason for adding EMI directly and not the prinicipal amount was to make it simple to understand that how much a person would shell out after all.

Do let me know if it is still sounds confusing [:)]

My point is simple as this. Fabia diesel OTR = 7.5L....Fabia pertrol OTR = 6L. The price difference is 1.5L.

My loan amount will be 1.5L more in case of diesel. For every lakh of loan amount, my EMI = 2200 (assuming 60 months tenure).

So my total extra EMI for additional 1.5 L = 2200 * 60 * 1.5 = 1.98 L

Your calculations take extra EMI to be 2200 * 60 = 1.32L and then adds this to the principal which is incorrect (as EMI includes principal + interest).

Right?

Also the resale for a 7.5L car is going to be higher than a 6L car, i.e., say I sell the car after 4 years for half the price, I still get back half of the 1.5L difference.

Anyway, I agree with the point that you are trying to drive - that diesel makes sense only for extensive users. [:D]

shailinder 22nd May 2012 12:30 PM

Re: The Definitive Petrol v/s Diesel Calculator
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by indiatraveller (Post 164286)
My point is simple as this. Fabia diesel OTR = 7.5L....Fabia pertrol OTR = 6L. The price difference is 1.5L.

My loan amount will be 1.5L more in case of diesel. For every lakh of loan amount, my EMI = 2200 (assuming 60 months tenure).

So my total extra EMI for additional 1.5 L = 2200 * 60 * 1.5 = 1.98 L

Your calculations take extra EMI to be 2200 * 60 = 1.32L and then adds this to the principal which is incorrect (as EMI includes principal + interest).

Right?

Also the resale for a 7.5L car is going to be higher than a 6L car, i.e., say I sell the car after 4 years for half the price, I still get back half of the 1.5L difference.

Anyway, I agree with the point that you are trying to drive - that diesel makes sense only for extensive users. [:D]

Thanks IndiaTraveller for understanding the core concern.

As far as EMI point is concerned. Please have a look at the picture attached below.

There you will find first row catering to per lakh EMI of each back (Please be informed that these were the rates some where around April' 2011.)

There bank has already factored the prinicipal amount in 5 years term on 1 lakh rupees loan. I did not post these figures earlier as I was under the impressesion that they were not required.

So, Rs. 2200/- extra (EMI for an extra one lakh on Diesel) I am driving from below figure only.

Please let me know if still there is any doubt [:)].

indiatraveller 22nd May 2012 07:00 PM

Re: The Definitive Petrol v/s Diesel Calculator
 
The doubt is not whether 2200 is the right value to take, it is about the value of Rs. 2.82 L that you have obtained in the excel sheet.

I think both of us agree till the point that extra EMI per lakh = 2200 * 60 = 1.32 L. I see the figure in your sheet as well.

But my point is, if for every 1 lakh of loan that I take, I need to repay Rs. 1.32 L; then for a 1.5L loan I need to repay 1.5 * 1.32 = 1.98 L. But your calculation shows this as 2.82 L. Hence the confusion.

shailinder 23rd May 2012 10:46 AM

Re: The Definitive Petrol v/s Diesel Calculator
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by indiatraveller (Post 164694)
The doubt is not whether 2200 is the right value to take, it is about the value of Rs. 2.82 L that you have obtained in the excel sheet.

I think both of us agree till the point that extra EMI per lakh = 2200 * 60 = 1.32 L. I see the figure in your sheet as well.

But my point is, if for every 1 lakh of loan that I take, I need to repay Rs. 1.32 L; then for a 1.5L loan I need to repay 1.5 * 1.32 = 1.98 L. But your calculation shows this as 2.82 L. Hence the confusion.

Now I got the point of confusion. Please have a look at the following picture and you would get the answer. [:)]

Note: Following figures are last year figures, that means difference between Petrol and Diesel fabia may or may not be the same today.

* I have factored no discount on 1.2 TDI (7.5 lakhs OTR Delhi roughly) and some 50K discount on 1.2 MPI (6.0 lakhs OTR Delhi roughly.)

brandoo 23rd May 2012 09:55 PM

Re: The Definitive Petrol v/s Diesel Calculator
 
Well when I went shopping for Fabia, diesel OTR Delhi was 7.3 and petrol 6.02 so difference was 1.28 L not 1.5 L.
Now petrol dearer by 7.5/L. This will further tilt the balance in the favour of diesel cars.

Let me put figures:
Per Km cost of running:
Diesel: 2.56/km (41/16) Per liter cost of fuel divided by FE
Petrol: 65/12= 5.42
Difference / KM: 2.85
Monthly running 1000 kms:
Monthly savings: 2850
Annual savings: 34200
5 year saving: 171000

Resale value of 5 year car:
Swift VXi: 240000. (Was bought by known to me with 56000 kms on ODO)
Swift VDi: 360000 (with 1.8 L kms on Odo)
Manufactured in same year but diesel run almost four time the petrol.

Let me account half of the price difference of diesel car as resale value so net extra cost: 50 % of extra cost.

Shailinder, I am not able to understand your logic of 2200 kms per month for break even. With 1000 kms I will recover the extra cost paid for diesel in three years.
Giving some excel sheet is of no help.

shailinder 24th May 2012 01:11 AM

Re: The Definitive Petrol v/s Diesel Calculator
 
@Brando, then just do not use the excel sheet I have prepared and sick to your logic. No body is forcing you to think the way I think.

Time and again I am saying that each individual should calculate the fuel type before buying a diesel car blindly or by just seeing the petrol rates in our country. How difficult it is to understand ?

I cannot have an argument with you just for the sake of having argument. [:)]

brandoo 24th May 2012 07:57 AM

Re: The Definitive Petrol v/s Diesel Calculator
 
Shailinder,
Thank you for upholding democratic ethos.[clap]

I have valid point at hand, with recent hike per km running cost will go up almost by 60 paisa and this will further exacerbate the difference in running cost. Lot of people go through our calculations, reviews and decide on that basis. Lets be more reasonable.
2200 Kms: Running cost will be 13700 per month for Petrol
Diesel: 5650
Per month difference: 8050 i.e. 96600 per year. Come on refine your flawed logic. [frustration]This my point I am driving, other have no intention to force my view point on you.
Cheers


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