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kkn13 19th April 2017 07:40 PM

Re: Reliability Petrol v/s Diesel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ISO2015 (Post 535827)
Friends imagine a situation you are on long trip and all of sudden engine refuse to start.

So which one is more reliable Petrol or Diesel?

Here I'm concern with only engine problems and not breakdown due to other issues like clutch.

Tough to say
It depends on the engines in question to determine
Modern turbo diesels are fairly on par with petrol counterparts

krishna6239 19th April 2017 10:00 PM

Re: Reliability Petrol v/s Diesel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ISO2015 (Post 535827)
Friends imagine a situation you are on long trip and all of sudden engine refuse to start.

So which one is more reliable Petrol or Diesel?

Here I'm concern with only engine problems and not breakdown due to other issues like clutch.

It's very hard to answer this question, there are a lot of factors involved in order to correctly answer your query.
Based on my observation when you buy a new car petrol engines likely to have some small problems than diesels counterparts. When we consider a long run engine, diesels are likely to crop up issues like head gasket issue, turbo bearings, CI etc. Most of issues with petrol engines are likely to be replaced than repaired.

vijay_968 17th November 2017 04:06 PM

Re: The Definitive Petrol v/s Diesel Calculator
 
With current Fuel prices, if you have the Question "My daily/monthly run is XYZ km. Should I go for Petrol or Diesel Car ?", then this post will help you. BTW, I approximate and assume a lot, to simplify matters, but, the estimate will be 70-80% correct. Read on.

Assumptions:
  • Money saved in "buying a Petrol variant" is NOT invested, but spent on VACATION, PARTYING, JEWELRY for Wife etc. Poor Diesel wala can't party as he ain't having any money left.
  • Maintenance cost is same for Diesel and Petrol variants (which is NOT).
  • Petrol = Rs.70.76 / Lit --- Google result on 16-11-17
  • Diesel = Rs.59.11 / Lit --- Google result on 16-11-17
  • Fuel prices do NOT change for next 5 years (Cent. Govt. is laughing at me)
  • Avg FE is 17.5 kpl for Petrol and 19.5 kpl for Diesel.
  • Price difference between Top end Petrol and Diesel variants is Rs. 1,20,000/-
  • Resale value of Diesel variant is Rs. 50,000/- MORE than a Petrol.
So, Rs. 70,000/- is the net difference, we need to break-even. Let us see Cases A to D below:

A. If car is run for 15,000 km per year (~ 40 km /day):
Exp on Petrol = 70.76 * (15,000/17.5) = Rs. 60,650/- Approx
Exp on Diesel = 59.11 * (15,000/19.5) = Rs. 45,470/- Approx
Money saved = 15,000 (approx).
Break-even period = 70,000 / 15,000 = 4.6 Years

B. If car is run for 20,000 km per year (~ 55 km /day):
Exp on Petrol = 70.76 * (20,000/17.5) = Rs. 80,850/- Approx
Exp on Diesel = 59.11 * (20,000/19.5) = Rs. 60,550/- Approx
Money saved = 20,000 (approx).
Break-even period = 70,000 / 20,000 = 3.5 Years

C. If car is run for 25,000 km per year (~ 68 km /day):
Exp on Petrol = 70.76 * (25,000/17.5) = Rs. 1,01,000/- Approx
Exp on Diesel = 59.11 * (25,000/19.5) = Rs. 75,750/- Approx
Money saved = 25,000 (approx).
Break-even period = 70,000 / 25,000 = 2.8 Years

D. If car is run 30,000 km per year (~ 82 km /day):
Exp on Petrol = 70.76 * (30,000/17.5) = Rs. 1,21,000/- Approx
Exp on Diesel = 59.11 * (30,000/19.5) = Rs. 90,950/- Approx
Money saved = 30,000 (approx).
Break-even period = 70,000 / 30,000 = 2.3 Year

My Thoughts:
Only "ONE rupee per kilometer run" is saved using a Diesel car !!!
If your usage is 12,000 km to 15,000 km, and IF you are good in Stock Market or know how to rotate this Rs.12K to 15K, you might earn Rs 2,000 to Rs 5,000/- per year as interest (out of the money saved, using Diesel).
If you are employed, the money saved will be most likely LEFT out in the Bank A/c and earn 4% interest rate --- Interest of Rs 600/- on Rs 15,000/- principle. THAT's ALL.
However, I can say THIS about a Diesel car... you end up doing many a "last minute one-day trips", only because of Diesel's low running cost. Meaning your usage increases compared to a Petrol car and you end up spending more money on Fuel. But, won't you agree with me that those "Happy trips spent with family are priceless" ???

Conclusion:
  1. If you are NOT used to driving a Good Diesel Car, and your yearly usage is less than 15,000 km, you have already wasted time in reading up to THIS. JUST GO BUY A PETROL CAR.
  2. If your yearly usage is less than 15,000 km, and if you are used to the torque of a Fantastic Diesel, and have overcome the "Petrol-Diesel dilemma", please tell me what you decided. I am searching for answer [confused]

powerpacked 18th November 2017 02:00 PM

Re: The Definitive Petrol v/s Diesel Calculator
 
[*]Avg FE is 17.5 kpl for Petrol and 19.5 kpl for Diesel.

Which car/model version have been considered pls

vijay_968 18th November 2017 02:28 PM

Re: The Definitive Petrol v/s Diesel Calculator
 
Swift twins (majority on the road) ...

One VXi owner told me he gets 21kpl regularly. I ignored such extreme figures. I took a difference of 2kpl after casually collecting data from colleagues AND APPROXIMATING ...

sumesh 24th November 2017 01:13 AM

Re: The Definitive Petrol v/s Diesel Calculator
 
I bought a Petrol car 4 months back( Grand i10) thinking that my running will be max 3,000 - 4,000 Kms per year. How wrong i was. I have already covered more than 5.5k kms in 4 months and with the kind of running, i might end up covering 15-17k in a year.

Although your calculator is accurate to a large extent but for some cars break even period is much less. For example, Hyundai Grandi10 diesel sportz is only 80-90k more than petrol variant when the discounts are factored in and gives around 20-23kmpl mileage compared to 14-17 kmpl of Petrol variant.

AbhisekVerma 24th November 2017 09:20 AM

Re: The Definitive Petrol v/s Diesel Calculator
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vijay_968 (Post 554182)
Swift twins (majority on the road) ...

One VXi owner told me he gets 21kpl regularly. I ignored such extreme figures. I took a difference of 2kpl after casually collecting data from colleagues AND APPROXIMATING ...

That Vxi guy exagerrated no doubts about it or hes driving only on the highways. Real difference between Petrol/Diesel cousins might be around 4.5 kmpl honestly after using both Petrol and Diesel especially in city.

vijay_968 24th November 2017 05:25 PM

Re: The Definitive Petrol v/s Diesel Calculator
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AbhisekVerma (Post 554647)
That Vxi guy exaggerated no doubts about it or hes driving only on the highways. Real difference between Petrol/Diesel cousins might be around 4.5 kmpl honestly after using both Petrol and Diesel especially in city.

I agree with you; many people exaggerate FE values. I have taken City & Highway FE figures from my colleagues, filtered the values (I call it approximating), averaged and used in my post # 258 above.

==================================================
For academic purposes, let us once calculate break-even periods, if Petro & Diesel FE figures differ by 2 kpl, 3 kpl, 4 kpl or 5 kpl.

When FE diff is 2 kpl, ONLY "Rs 1.0489 per kilometer run" is saved using a Diesel car !!! Break-even period will be : for 15K km - 4.44 Yrs / for 20K km - 3.33 Yrs & for 25K km - 2.67 Yrs / for 30K km - 2.22 Yrs

Even if the FE diff is 3 kpl, ONLY "Rs 1.2045 per kilometer run" is saved using a Diesel car !!! Break-even period will be : for 15K km - 3.87 Yrs / for 20K km - 2.90 Yrs & for 25K km - 2.32 Yrs / for 30K km - 1.93 Yrs

Even if the FE diff is 4 kpl, ONLY "Rs 1.3452 per kilometer run" is saved using a Diesel car !!! Break-even period will be : for 15K km - 3.87 Yrs / for 20K km - 2.60 Yrs & for 25K km - 2.08 Yrs / for 30K km - 1.73 Yrs

ONLY when the FE diff is 5 kpl, "Rs 1.6052 per kilometer run" is saved using a Diesel car !!! Break-even period will be : for 15K km - 2.90 Yrs / for 20K km - 2.18 Yrs & for 25K km - 1.74Yrs / for 30K km - 1.45 Yrs

I think, the info between the lines will help.
==================================================

The reason for my post # 258 was THIS
---> Many of my colleagues drive less than 10,000 km in a year and I recommend Petrol variant for them. One day they said I was the reason for the high running cost they incur due to poor FE. I was curious and casually started collecting FE data from others; in my office and other friends. My finding are :
  1. Majority of those driving a Petrol Engine, drive with a light foot and majority of those driving a Diesel Engine use a heavy right foot. This results in an FE difference of just 2 kpl between Petrol and Diesel.
  2. If bHP/Ton of two Petrol (or Diesel) Cars are close and the right foot behaviors is similar, the FE figures are very close.
  3. Those with Diesel cars tend to use AC more. BTW, in Verna & Rapid diesels, driving with or without AC does not have any significant effect on FE. May be the closed windows come play a role in keeping aerodynamics intact.
  4. Those who don't care about FE either drive more (for the fun) or become FE conscious soon.
With these findings I sat with a paper and pencil and found out what I wrote in Post # 258. Now, I have made changes and more options are available to decide between Petrol and Diesel.

PS: I feel more than 70% Indians are FE conscious. My Wife believes that my Verna gives 25 kpl. I show her MID's instantaneous FE figures, and she is happy[lol] .

vijay_968 4th January 2018 02:54 PM

Re: The Definitive Petrol v/s Diesel Calculator
 
Shifting preference - Diesel to Petrol :

Yesterday, one interesting article in ToI caught my eyes; it is about shrinking market share for Diesel Engines in India (link Dt 03-Jan-2018). Diesel Engines command just 23% share in Sales of "Hatchbacks and Sedans". "Honda India has seen the share of Diesel engines shrink from 67% in 2013-14 to just 25% in 2016-17. Honda City, which used to see 60% of sales coming from diesel in 2014, now gets only 20% sales in Diesel".

For Maruti Suzuki, Ciaz Diesel variant shrunk from 60% to about 30% of sales.

The only challenge to the trend, however, remains the rising share of SUVs in the country. Vitara Brezza is offered only in Diesel. Though Diesel is the preferred choice for SUVs, mindset is changing towards petrol; for Creta SUV, more than 30% of sales are coming from Petrol version.

Then, I did some digging, and found this (link Dt 08-Aug-2017), on the "percentage of diesel cars sold in India"
  • 2012-13 was 47 %
  • 2013-14 was 42 %
  • 2014-15 was 37 %
  • 2015-16 was 34 %
  • 2016-17 was 27 %
THIS shift away from Diesel fuel is good for Environment [clap]. I am VERY proud to be an Indian :
  • our Trucks and Buses do NOT pollute
  • our Industries do NOT pollute
  • rain water harvesting is implemented 100%
  • River Sand is NOT looted
  • our water management is THE BEST in the whole of Universe
  • we preserve Trees and Forests
  • Motorcades are NOT at all seen in India
  • Except Military and Public Transport, all official Cars use Petrol Engines ONLY
Mera Bharat Mahan

Will this SHIFT towards Petrol continue ? Or ____ or _____ or ____ or ___

PS-1: There is some hardware error in my keyboard. Whatever I type, it just keeps displaying ___. THIS does not have any link to anybody afraid of being termed uncle-Indian.

PS-2: Recently a close friend of mine was arguing for a Nationwide shift to Electric Cars. I asked him to look outside. Date was on 31-Dec-2017 --- time was 8 PM --- place was B'lore North --- there was a power cut for more than three hours.

rkiefpm 4th January 2018 06:50 PM

Re: The Definitive Petrol v/s Diesel Calculator
 
This shift will be more pronounced after BS VI emission norms kick in for new cars post 2020. The petrol-diesel difference is around 1.5 to 2 lakhs for sedans and 1 to 1.5 lakhs for hatchbacks. This difference is likely to double cutting diesel sales further as fuel economy advantages are out of question.

However, the diesels will continue to be more fun to drive than Petrols. Hyundai 1.6 CRDi will be BS 6 compliant by adding a diesel particulate filter and one more item. Ford will bring Ecoblue diesel to India that will be way more costly than TDCi. 1.3 Multijet is not capable of meeting BS 6 norms and that is why Maruti is working on their in-house 1.5.

Diesel sales will plummet but they will be way more fun to drive than Petrols. Turbocharged petrols will fail in India as they lack low end torque like in Baleno RS and Ford Ecoboost. Naturallly aspirated petrols will continue to sell more (that is why Ford invested in Dragon petrols for developing countries). We need low end torque for driving in our cities!

anshuman8 11th May 2018 06:55 PM

Re: The Definitive Petrol v/s Diesel Calculator
 
With retail Diesel prices ruling at all time high, I am seeing few Petrol cabbies now in Bangalore.
Economics have changed drastically ?

pavi 23rd May 2018 03:11 PM

Re: The Definitive Petrol v/s Diesel Calculator
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rkiefpm (Post 557753)
However, the diesels will continue to be more fun to drive than Petrols.

Diesel sales will plummet but they will be way more fun to drive than Petrols. Turbocharged petrols will fail in India as they lack low end torque like in Baleno RS and Ford Ecoboost. Naturallly aspirated petrols will continue to sell more (that is why Ford invested in Dragon petrols for developing countries). We need low end torque for driving in our cities!

I hope that is your personal preference. Because one needs to define 'what is fun to drive' according to him/her. For me fun to drive, will be always a NA petrol motor as I love high revving engines, and poor low end torque not withstanding at least for me. I believe F1 drivers are having their own fun while driving short stroke high revving engines. I think people have mistaken 'ease to drive' for 'fun to drive'.

Note : This is strictly my personal preference. Other's view can be completely opposite to mine and I respect that.

Britto 17th July 2018 09:30 AM

Petrol vs Diesel
 
Setting aside the initial premium of 80 - 100K of Diesel over Petrol, which you think is better ? in terms of

1)Driveability
2)Cost of maintenance
3)Long term reliability

Is it a myth or a fact that low running diesels creates a hole in the pocket


Mods - Add it to any existing similar thread if any

SilverEyez 17th July 2018 10:53 AM

Re: Petrol vs Diesel
 
Interesting thread and very debatable,

1) I enjoy both the engines,(Swift D, Amaze D and Baleno P)
2) Above 3 cars are very reliable with low cost of maintenance.
3) Swift 2008 The oldest horse still running strong.
Amaze 2016
Baleno 2017

This is all my personal opinion, nothing technical in all the above views.

Britto 17th July 2018 03:26 PM

Re: Petrol vs Diesel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverEyez (Post 567276)
Interesting thread and very debatable,

1) I enjoy both the engines,(Swift D, Amaze D and Baleno P)
2) Above 3 cars are very reliable with low cost of maintenance.
3) Swift 2008 The oldest horse still running strong.
Amaze 2016
Baleno 2017

This is all my personal opinion, nothing technical in all the above views.

After driving my father's Swift 2011 ZDI, I dont get the connect nor the fun factor with any petrols I have driven after that.... And I am kind of apprehensive to own a deisel hatch owing to the myth around low running diesels !

Let's see if the heart wins or the head ! :)


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