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Tornado 5th September 2016 01:57 AM

Tyre Selection: XM2 vs Earth1 vs GY ATM vs CC5 vs ER300 vs...
 
I was under impression that I have adequate knowledge AFA tyre selection is concerned. So I googled a lot, and got confused. Major reason behind confusion is that I or rather we have got habit of reading only online expert & user reviews and take decision. Of late, I realised that these reviews are useful only for the particular size, load index, speed index. If there is a change in any one of these factors the features & benefits associated with the tyres changes by leaps & bounds.

My requirements :
Replacement tyres for Skoda Rapid TDI DSG AMT in stock size 185/60R15 84T.

As my driving style is bit aggressive, total running daily is approximately 70 km ( 12 km four lane highway without road divider & 20 km two Lane highway without road lane dividing stripes[frustration] so you never know when you have to apply emergency brakes, so braking experience needs to be excellent.

I don't like to follow other vehicles on the road, so keep overtaking the vehicles in quick succession This is aided by the 'kickdown mode' of the acceleration pedal of the Skoda Rapid DSG AMT. You just press the A pedal till metal in the existing gear & you can easily over take 2 to 3 trucks in single go. I also have to pass through a Ghat section daily 3 km up & 3 km down. It's early in the morning I have to go down through it, I need to hard corner at good speeds on turns which have poor banking . Also, they should not give nauseating sensation to the occupants while hard cornering repeatedly.

Few stretches of the road are like no roads (bumps, potholes, puddles), so needed a tyre which is less susceptible to bulging or ballooning & sidewall cut. Also there are 10 indian size speed breakers on the route.

Whenever there are holidays there is holiday for this daily 70 km running & I go with my family on long distance trips often involving 1000 kms. So tyre needs to be less noisy if not super silent.

Tyre life /longevity : They should at least last for 40 k to 45k km. My past experience is that for my driving style the average stock tyres use to last not more than 40 kkm.

Experience with various tyre sets with my other previous cars :
I have used many CEAT, MRF, JK in the past before 2010, all I can say about them is they were crap.

Bridgestone B series 250, 290 etc, they were marginally better (comfort & braking) than above mentioned brands.

Bridgestone ER 60 : On Tata Manza, These were excellent tyres but I had upsized the tyres from stock size. And had purchased ER60 for their strong side walls. One fine day while passing through a WIP road, sidewall of one of the tyres got torn badly, I had to shell out 5K approximately for replacement.

Goodyear Eagle NCT5 : OE tyres on Fiat Avventura, stock size : One of the tyre got side wall cut while parking the car due to sharp metal protruding out from the ground. I can't blame the tyre here, it was the fault of the construction engineer (govt).

Michelin Xm2 : I have experience of two sets of xm2 on my father's wagon R. After they were fitted FE improved by 1km. [clap], Total eight tyres & single puncture. My father's driving style is safe for the occupants & careful for the car, he is not a sedate driver, manages to keep pace with my car whenever road conditions permit

Review of stock OE Apollo Alnac (Non 4G) tyres on my Skoda Rapid :
UTQG Rating :
Treadwear :300
Traction : A
Temperature : B.

E marking : full feels European Wet grip & sound pollution criteria

European label not available.

My experience :
Braking :
Dry :Average grip. Not inspiring confidence when doing 140 to 20 kmph.
Wet : never tried high speeds, and they are average while doing safe speeds.

Noise :Supersilent.

Hard cornering : gives a bit worrying feel when done at high speed, Also they give some nausea to the occupants as they started aging. Doing safe speed cornering they are fine.

Steering feedback : Poor, this is coupled with the EPS.

Comfort for occupants was good during initial 25 kkm. It slowly started deteriorating. And now it's pathetic. Everything on the road is passed in the cabin (rattles).

Longevity /Mileage : Now they are 33 kkm run. Their shoulders are completely weared off due to shabby alignment job done by Skoda ASS . The TWI still indicates that they would have easily done 4to 5 k km if shoulders had not weared off.

Following tyres I have taken in to consideration for the replacement

Michelin XM2 :
By virtue of being Asymmetrical tread tyres, they full fill my hard cornering requirements.
UTQG rating: Treadwear 420,
Traction A,
Temperature A

EU label (Please note, EU labels are stickers, compulsory on the tyres while selling the tyres in EU & ECE member countries, they are not compulsory in India, so I have found out them on internet) : Most of the XM2 in other sizes are showing 'C' rating for the fuel efficiency & 'C' ratings for wet grip. It is hard to find EU label for the 185 /60 R 15, 84 T. As they are probably not sold in EU now.

E markings : fulfills Sound pollution & wet grip European criteria

Ply composition : Tread - 2 steel, 2 polyester, 1polyamide
Sidewall :2 polyester.

Yokohama earth 1 :
No UTQG rating mentioned on them.

No question of EU label or E markings, as their tag line is 'Designed for India (read Indian laws). And these tyres are not sold in Europe. The fuel efficient & probably European version of the Earth1 is Blu earth 01 which have got C ratings in fuel efficiency & C ratings in wet grip too.

Ply composition :
Tread : 2 steel, 2 polyester, 1 nylon.
Sidewall : 2 polyester.

They use' Orange peel oil ' to soften the natural rubber used in the tyre, so as to make the ride comfortable.

Goodyear Assurance Triplmax (GY ATM) :
UTQG rating :
Treadwear 320
Traction A
Temperature :A.

E markings : Fulfills European criteria for Sound pollution & Wet grip.

European label : not available, not sold there.

Warranty : Amazingly, they offer replacement against any type of damage (bulge, burst, cut) & manufacturing defect. They will charge only for the used tread thickness of the damaged tyre.

While researching, I found the Goodyear Efficientgrip tyres have got A or B ratings for both the fuel efficiency & Wet grip. I would have loved to get that tyre but the Efficientgrip are not sold in India.

Continental Conticomfortcontact 5 (CC5) :
By virtue of being asymmetrical tread pattern tyres, they fulfill my hard cornering requirement.

UTQG ratings :
Treadwear : 360
Traction A
Temperature A

E marking : not available,not sold in Europe. They are sold in Australia but I could not find the label, but other e contact model show that they have B ratings in fuel efficiency & B ratings in wet grip too.

Bridgestone : famous on net forums & general public too.
Bridgestone ER 300 :
Asymmetrical, hence good for hard cornering.
UTQG ratings. ( I need to confirm, because I am not sure about these)
Treadwear :400 ,
Traction :A
Temperature :A

Most of the European labels of ER 300 show that their fuel efficiency ratings are E or F (meaning worst) and for wet grip it is C.

Ply composition :
Tread :1 polyester, 2 steel, 1 nylon
Sidewall :2 polyester

Bridgestone B 290 : No E markings, No UTQG ratings mentioned on their sidewalls, IIRC, They haven't bothered to mention the ply composition too! :eek: On the top of it, the salesman was telling me that I need not read the sidewall as it is not for the consumer and best tyre for my car is B 290!!!!

B250 ;
UTQG ratings (Pathetic) :
Treadwear 200, Traction B, Temperature B.

No E markings found , Most of the European labels show that fuel efficiency ratings is E or F (meaning worst) and Wet traction ratings : C

I didn't bothered to check the ply composition.

Bridgestone ECOPIA EP150 :
The dealer was surprised to know that as per the Bridgestone website, this tyre is available in India, so he called up them. The Bridgestone man told us that it's not available in 185/60 R 15 and there is no plan in the future to bring it.

To my surprise, ECOPIAs, in India, in other sizes neither bear the UTQG ratings markings nor the E marking,however EU labels found on Internet show that ECOPIA Ep150 has got B or C rantings for the fuel efficiency and B or C ratings for wet grip.

Guys plz help me finalising my decision.

bhvm 5th September 2016 09:26 AM

Re: Tyre Selection : XM2 vs Earth1 vs GY ATM vs CC5 vs ER300 vs....
 
http://www.theautomotiveindia.com/fo...ned-india.html

May help.

Tornado 6th September 2016 12:18 PM

Re: Tyre Selection: XM2 vs Earth1 vs GY ATM vs CC5 vs ER300 vs...
 
Best qoutes, I got including valves, alignment & balancing.

Xm2 : Rs 4800

Yokohama earth 1 : Rs 4200

GY ATM : Rs 3600, not sure about alignment balancing charges.

ER300 : Rs 4500.

ALNAC 4 G ; Rs4000

Continental conticomfortcontact 5 : Rs 3900

Tornado 7th September 2016 01:03 AM

Re: Tyre Selection: XM2 vs Earth1 vs GY ATM vs CC5 vs ER300 vs...
 
1 Attachment(s)
Read lot of complaints about side wall cut & bulges.
So on Google search engine window I typed 'Sidewall cut, bulge' and found numerous users of Michelin XM2 complaining about bulges and sidewall cuts than any other competing brands.

Also whenever I walk across the parking areas in the city I look for which car is wearing which tyres. And I saw one car with XM2, one tyre was showing clear sidewall bulges & and five six puncture repair sites at the junction of the sidewall & tread.
So, I am now little afraid of XM2..

bhvm 7th September 2016 04:18 PM

Re: Tyre Selection: XM2 vs Earth1 vs GY ATM vs CC5 vs ER300 vs...
 
Thats the reason I don't prefer Michellins
They're 100% good road tyre.

Same mentioned in my Yokohama Review.

Akash1886 8th September 2016 10:09 AM

Re: Tyre Selection: XM2 vs Earth1 vs GY ATM vs CC5 vs ER300 vs...
 
Our Funny man T for Tornado![:)]. I would suggest, of the mentioned options, go for Bridgestone. I have used them for my car and hence I feel they are quite good w.r.t to braking and road grip.

Regards

Akash

Tornado 12th September 2016 01:47 AM

Re: Tyre Selection: XM2 vs Earth1 vs GY ATM vs CC5 vs ER300 vs...
 
7 Attachment(s)
Finally it is CC5 for me.

Michelin Xm2 : rejected for the more numbers of bulges /cuts on the sidewall reviews on internet as compared to other brands.

Earth1 : rejected for lack of transparency on the part of manufacturer. Online user reviews can't be relied upon fully as they are different for different sizes, speed & Load indices and the driving style.

GY ATM : rejected as there wasn't worldly difference between treadlife of stock tyres. Also lack of knowledge on fuel efficiency figures.


Bridgestone ER300 : rejected for F ratings for FE for other sizes & indices. If at all my particular size had a better rating why they are not selling it abroad?

Bridgestones B 290 : rejected for lack of transparency .

CC5 fulfilled most of my requirements.
Also additional benefit of FE offered by Michelin is negated by the low price of the CC5.

1)6 Ply tread likely to be sturdiest as far as cuts & bulges

2) asymmetrical pattern good for hard cornering.

3)Presence of polyamide and absence of pure nylon will offer better comfort & avoid flat spotting.

4) Tread life substantially better than stock tyres.

5) I liked the looks too.

Tornado 12th September 2016 08:32 AM

Re: Tyre Selection: XM2 vs Earth1 vs GY ATM vs CC5 vs ER300 vs...
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Akash1886 (Post 512723)
Our Funny man T for Tornado![:)]. I would suggest, of the mentioned options, go for Bridgestone. I have used them for my car and hence I feel they are quite good w.r.t to braking and road grip.

Regards

Akash

Bridgestone ER300 have 1ply of nylon in their tread while CC5 have 2 plies of polyamide instead of nylon.
Since polyamide offers better comfort and prevents flat spotting. I preferred CC5 over ER 300,also double layer of polyamide would be more bulge /burst resistant than single ply nylon.

Tornado 13th September 2016 11:28 AM

Re: Tyre Selection: XM2 vs Earth1 vs GY ATM vs CC5 vs ER300 vs...
 
Also the price difference between set of 4 of BS ER 300 & CC5 was Rs 4000 which negated the treadwear rating benefit of 400 (BS ER 300) vs 360 (CC5).

PS B
Treadwear ratings of 100 is equal to 11 to 12 kkm.

Tornado 13th September 2016 05:40 PM

Re: Tyre Selection: XM2 vs Earth1 vs GY ATM vs CC5 vs ER300 vs...
 
Tyre installation experience.

Dealer name : Darshan Tyres, Sadhu waswani road Pune. Darshan Tyres have total 16 dealerships in Pune. This particular showroom deals with Continental preferably.

I enquired about tyre manufacturing dates on phone , he said that they are post March 16. It was ok.

I reached the dealership, confirmed the dates. I told him to take care at time of alignment, as my tyres have weared more at shoulders than the midpart. The mid part infact have little bit tread left above the TWI.

They fitted the tyres within half hour.

]Now came the shock :

Dealer called me inside and told that the alignment of previous tyres was ok and it is the suspension which is faulty.!!! :eek: He asked me to show the car to SASS. I told him to remove the aftermarket Urathane cushions mounted on the springs of suspension and then check. But he said that the springs & cushion have nothing to do with the treadwear. He could not handover me the alignment report due to some printer issue.

First 5 km experience :
Nothing to write home about it, car was equally passing the small undulations on the road inside the cabin as it was the case with the stock tyres at the end of their life. Also passing over the potholes & bumps was not as pleasant as the stock tyres when they were new.
I didn't checked the hard cornering, dry and wet grips as new tyres need atleast 500 to 800 km break in period. On that day, it was total 30 km drive. At the end of this drive I found the ride quality started improving but not fully.
Anyways, it is inappropriate to post a review before tyre break in period is over.


Next day, I went to Skoda ASS with prior appointment.

They immediately took the car on the ramp, the manager himself came there as he was also shocked to hear a suspension issue of chronic nature in a Skoda car which has been serviced just 3kkm.
Finally they told me suspension is in excellent condition. If I am ready to pay the inspection & checking charges they can give it in writing. Then they checked the alignment which was also fine.!, however they adjusted some 'toe'.

Then I asked, why would a tyre dealer should tell me such things about suspension.?

The SASS manager told me, it is possible that the tyre dealer's machine might not be serviced (recalibrated) within stipulated time & might be faulty. And just to double check the alignment, he might have sent me to them. [evil].

Regarding the more treadwear at the shoulders as compared to the mid part, he inspected the old tyres, which I was carrying in the boot and commented that all the eight shoulders ( 2 of each tyre ) have weared fully throughout their circumference. Hence it is a case of 'uniform tyre wear & not uneven . This usually happens due to driving style which involves too much hard cornering.

Tyres have now run 700 km & I will soon go on a long drive & post a review here.

VISHNUCARCRAZY 13th September 2016 09:49 PM

Re: Tyre Selection: XM2 vs Earth1 vs GY ATM vs CC5 vs ER300 vs...
 
Sorry ,Mr,Tornado,i was held up with festive mood of onam so couldn't see the message earlier.
I haven't used Continental tyres ,so can't comment on it.
But it isn't a bad brand.

Tornado 14th September 2016 09:04 PM

185/60R15 Conticomfortcontact 5 review : 800 km.
 
Steering feedback :
My car has EPS and steering feel was not as perfect as Fiat cars. Now lot of improvement noted, car feels connected to the road and inspires confidence.

Dry hard braking : Excellent, better than previous set of Alnacs , but still noted some tyre rubbing sound. With previous Alnacs ABS use to kick in frequently, with CC5, it has not kicked in yet.

Wet hard braking : not tried yet.

Hard cornering : Simply superb at speeds 60 to 90, doesn't give scary feel. No nausea felt by the occupants who use to feel it in the Ghat section with Alnacs. No tyre rubbing noise heard.

Noise : They are silent. The slightest noise present doesn't make you switch on or increase the volume of the ICE. This noise too has started decreasing since installation. The previous Alnacs were supersilent.

On potholes & road undulations : They are delightful at sane speeds. I don't have a plan to try insane speeds on them.

Comfort levels : Increased as compared to Alnacs.

CRACING 15th September 2016 07:49 AM

Re: Tyre Selection: XM2 vs Earth1 vs GY ATM vs CC5 vs ER300 vs...
 
Hello Tornado Ji,

I'm glad to hear that you have finally bought new tyres for your car. They are looking great, especially with those black alloys. I also appreciate you for taking time to research and provide details of different tyres. [clap]

I don't have personal experience with Continental tyres but I always believed its one of a brand that makes superior tyres.

Anyway, looking forward to learn more about this tyre.

Thanks...
Best Regards

Tornado 15th September 2016 07:11 PM

Conticomfortcontact 5 : experience on muddy road.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Today happened to visit riverside for Ganesha emersion. The road was muddy. CC5 are not mud tyres (they don't have M+S logo on their sidewall),still they held the 50 m path (rather no road) well didn't slipped during climbing the path. There was some slippage during coming down the gradient but no scary feel.

Tornado 22nd September 2016 12:11 AM

Ply composition of Goodyear triple assurance.
 
1 Attachment(s)
My bad, I didn't posted about the ply composition of Goodyear triple assurance in my opening post. hence posting it's pic. Reason behind rejecting Goodyear was single ply of polyester in the tread .as opposed to 2 plies of polyester in the CC5. Lesser is the number of polyester plies less is the impact resistance of the tyre.
This means Goodyear triple assurance tread is more prone to burst as compared to CC5. Goodyear triple assurance offers 3 years unconditional warranty in case of burst or cut but they don't cover loss of life or limb in that case! Attachment 209394

I had aloo forgotten to mention ply composition of CC5, however later I have posted its pic in the post comparing Bridgestone ER300 vs CC5.


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